If the WMDs were in Syria, why didn't we go get them... or at least unveil
them FOR REAL (I mean, does anybody except a few far-rightie whackos
believe this news you quote)?



NOYB wrote:
Because it was the Russians who helped smuggle the weapons to Syria...and
dealing with Russia is a little bit more complicated than dealing with Iraq.


Oh, are the Russians our pals now? Maybe because of the nuclear material
they're selling to Iran, we should keep a "hands off" approach?

And besides, I've personally watch US missiles on a scope as they
slammed into Syrian and Jordanian anti-air sites, killing Russian
technicians. Perhaps a bit of a risky power play, but they took the risk
of backing the loser.

Frankly if the Iraqi WMDs existed in the post Gulf War era (which the
best US intel now doubts strongly) and if they went to Syria (which
nobody except a handful of fascist half-wits believe) then your
"reasons" are little more than lame excuses. Those WMDs (if they exist)
constitute a SERIOUS threat, perhaps an even greater one if laying
around in Syria where there are all kinds of uncontrolled half-baked
fundie hellraisers instead of Iraq, where a very strong & well
disciplined force controlled by a very secular gov't kept the terrorists
out.



Regardless, the latest revelation of Syrian ties to the assassination of
Hariri will now force Russia to sit on the sidelines as a case for regime
change is made before the UN against Assad.


I thought the UN was ineffective? I thought the UN was corrupt?

Can't you "neo-conservatives" make up your minds?

BTW I am glad to hear that you pulled thru the hurricane OK.

DSK

I thought the UN was ineffective? I thought the UN was corrupt?

it is. it is

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:11:46 -0400, DSK wrote:


Frankly if the Iraqi WMDs existed in the post Gulf War era (which the best
US intel now doubts strongly) and if they went to Syria (which nobody
except a handful of fascist half-wits believe) then your "reasons" are
little more than lame excuses. Those WMDs (if they exist) constitute a
SERIOUS threat, perhaps an even greater one if laying around in Syria
where there are all kinds of uncontrolled half-baked fundie hellraisers
instead of Iraq, where a very strong & well disciplined force controlled
by a very secular gov't kept the terrorists out.


Yeah, it's a little difficult selling the world as a "safer place" with
all those WMDs unaccounted for, if they existed. Something else to note,
the nitwit in charge has marginalized the two *secular* states in the
area, Syria and Iraq. This has proved a boon for the area's fundie state,
Iran. We've eliminated one of their sworn enemies, Iraq, and added to
Iran's sphere of influence, the Iraqi Shias. If Iraq doesn't hold
together, and it's still an even money bet, we have destabilized the
entire area. There will likely be a Kurdish state, something Turkey very
much wants to avoid, and the big player in the area, will not be the US,
it will be Iran. Pure genius, this President we are saddled with.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
If the WMDs were in Syria, why didn't we go get them... or at least
unveil them FOR REAL (I mean, does anybody except a few far-rightie
whackos believe this news you quote)?



NOYB wrote:
Because it was the Russians who helped smuggle the weapons to Syria...and
dealing with Russia is a little bit more complicated than dealing with
Iraq.


Oh, are the Russians our pals now?

No. They're deceitful and cannot be trusted.

Maybe because of the nuclear material they're selling to Iran, we should
keep a "hands off" approach?


No. But you must use a little more diplomacy with a nuclear power.

Here's an interesting tie-in with this thread:


Wednesday, October 26, 2005 · Last updated 3:10 a.m. PT

Reports: Moscow opposes Syria sanctions

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MOSCOW -- Russia will try to prevent the United Nations from leveling
sanctions against Syria, a spokesman for the Russian Foreign Ministry said
Wednesday, according to Russian news reports.

"Russia opposes sanctions against Syria," Mikhail Kamynin said while
accompanying Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on a trip to Israel, according
to the Interfax, Itar-Tass and RIA Novosti news agencies. "Russia will be
doing everything necessary to prevent attempts to impose sanctions against
Syria."



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...be_Russia.html

Oh, are the Russians our pals now?


NOYB wrote:
No. They're deceitful and cannot be trusted.


Then why, during the last election, were you trumpeting that Putin
really really liked Bush & Cheney and wanted us all to vote for him?





Maybe because of the nuclear material they're selling to Iran, we should
keep a "hands off" approach?



No. But you must use a little more diplomacy with a nuclear power.


Russia's most credible nuclear threat to the US is via terrorist proxy.
Of course, President Bush is doing so little to combat *real* terrorism
that it's a huge threat.

Here's an interesting tie-in with this thread:


Wednesday, October 26, 2005 · Last updated 3:10 a.m. PT

Reports: Moscow opposes Syria sanctions

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MOSCOW -- Russia will try to prevent the United Nations from leveling
sanctions against Syria

Yep.

One of the best reasons for putting the hammer down on Bashir Assad is
that he has a knack for chosing the wrong side, that plus he's a brutal
dictator. OTOH his gov't is both stable & secular, and his help would be
(and was in the past) valuable against radical Muslim terrorist groups.
He is working at modernizing & Westernizing Syria, and if the U.S.
exerted a little smart diplomacy, could be a valuable ally.

We could influence him to grant slightly more human rights, too;
although somebody will first have to convince President Bush that
torture is for bad guys.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Oh, are the Russians our pals now?


NOYB wrote:
No. They're deceitful and cannot be trusted.


Then why, during the last election, were you trumpeting that Putin really
really liked Bush & Cheney and wanted us all to vote for him?

Diplomatic blackmail. Bush had Putin dead to rights on a number of issues:
violating the Iraqi sanctions by shipping them arms, helping Saddam smuggle
out WMD, and running interference for Iraq at the UN.









Maybe because of the nuclear material they're selling to Iran, we should
keep a "hands off" approach?



No. But you must use a little more diplomacy with a nuclear power.


Russia's most credible nuclear threat to the US is via terrorist proxy.
Of course, President Bush is doing so little to combat *real* terrorism
that it's a huge threat.

We'd know in a heartbeat if a Russian nuke was detonated on US soil. The
Russians aren't that foolhardy.


Here's an interesting tie-in with this thread:


Wednesday, October 26, 2005 · Last updated 3:10 a.m. PT

Reports: Moscow opposes Syria sanctions

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MOSCOW -- Russia will try to prevent the United Nations from leveling
sanctions against Syria

Yep.

One of the best reasons for putting the hammer down on Bashir Assad is
that he has a knack for chosing the wrong side, that plus he's a brutal
dictator. OTOH his gov't is both stable & secular, and his help would be
(and was in the past) valuable against radical Muslim terrorist groups.


He has no interest in helping us. In fact, he's working feverishly to
subvert our efforts in Iraq.


He is working at modernizing & Westernizing Syria, and if the U.S. exerted
a little smart diplomacy, could be a valuable ally.

Hogwash. Any country which supports terrorist groups like Hezbollah, is in
no way a potential ally to the US.



We could influence him to grant slightly more human rights, too; although
somebody will first have to convince President Bush that torture is for
bad guys.

President Bush already knows that torture is for bad guys. All of those bad
guys in US military prisons.

No. They're deceitful and cannot be trusted.


Then why, during the last election, were you trumpeting that Putin really
really liked Bush & Cheney and wanted us all to vote for him?


NOYB wrote:
Diplomatic blackmail. Bush had Putin dead to rights on a number of issues:
violating the Iraqi sanctions by shipping them arms, helping Saddam smuggle
out WMD, and running interference for Iraq at the UN.


And that was why you thought Putin's endorsement was good for Push??


Russia's most credible nuclear threat to the US is via terrorist proxy.
Of course, President Bush is doing so little to combat *real* terrorism
that it's a huge threat.


We'd know in a heartbeat if a Russian nuke was detonated on US soil.

How?

... The
Russians aren't that foolhardy.


No, they're very smart. That's why they would be perfectly willing to
sell nukes to some terrorists and possibly even help them deliver it via
shipping container. Plus they need the money.

But hey, aren't we all glad that President Bush's crackerjack Homeland
Security Team is 100% on-the-ball, right?


One of the best reasons for putting the hammer down on Bashir Assad is
that he has a knack for chosing the wrong side, that plus he's a brutal
dictator. OTOH his gov't is both stable & secular, and his help would be
(and was in the past) valuable against radical Muslim terrorist groups.



He has no interest in helping us. In fact, he's working feverishly to
subvert our efforts in Iraq.


Baloney. I suppose this comes out of the same spew that provides all the
ranting about Iran's insurgency is all foreigners.




He is working at modernizing & Westernizing Syria, and if the U.S. exerted
a little smart diplomacy, could be a valuable ally.


Hogwash. Any country which supports terrorist groups like Hezbollah, is in
no way a potential ally to the US.


Yep.

BTW Hezbollah is supported more by Iran than by Syria. And they have a
large political wing which gives them a stake in realistic solutions. If
we get Syria to pull back (which would take some smarts & some time)
then that gives Hezbollah an even bigger reason to play nice.

But I suppose you must rant & rave about how they are evil violent
fundamentalists (while ignoring the fact that you're a fundamentalist
advocate of violence yourself) & we should kill them all, somehow.




We could influence him to grant slightly more human rights, too; although
somebody will first have to convince President Bush that torture is for
bad guys.


President Bush already knows that torture is for bad guys.

Then why did he promise to veto a bill defining torture as against US
policy? Or are you saying that President Bush is one of the bad guys?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
No. They're deceitful and cannot be trusted.


Then why, during the last election, were you trumpeting that Putin really
really liked Bush & Cheney and wanted us all to vote for him?


NOYB wrote:
Diplomatic blackmail. Bush had Putin dead to rights on a number of
issues: violating the Iraqi sanctions by shipping them arms, helping
Saddam smuggle out WMD, and running interference for Iraq at the UN.


And that was why you thought Putin's endorsement was good for Push??


It helped reassure the last-minute uninformed/undecideds who couldn't make
up their minds who to vote for.

Those folks seem to care an awful bunch about what other nations like Russia
think about us.



Russia's most credible nuclear threat to the US is via terrorist proxy.
Of course, President Bush is doing so little to combat *real* terrorism
that it's a huge threat.


We'd know in a heartbeat if a Russian nuke was detonated on US soil.

How?

From the isotopic signature.



... The Russians aren't that foolhardy.


No, they're very smart. That's why they would be perfectly willing to sell
nukes to some terrorists and possibly even help them deliver it via
shipping container. Plus they need the money.

But hey, aren't we all glad that President Bush's crackerjack Homeland
Security Team is 100% on-the-ball, right?


One of the best reasons for putting the hammer down on Bashir Assad is
that he has a knack for chosing the wrong side, that plus he's a brutal
dictator. OTOH his gov't is both stable & secular, and his help would be
(and was in the past) valuable against radical Muslim terrorist groups.



He has no interest in helping us. In fact, he's working feverishly to
subvert our efforts in Iraq.


Baloney. I suppose this comes out of the same spew that provides all the
ranting about Iran's insurgency is all foreigners.


The true native Iraqi "insurgents" are no longer very effective at killing
American and Iraq military and police forces. Though they may outnumber the
foreign fighters, their actions account for very few of the more recent
(within 6 months) American and Iraqi casualties.

"American commanders say that foreigners make up more than 90 percent of
the suicide bombers. Many of those suicide attacks are directed at
civilians."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/21/in...21baghdad.html




He is working at modernizing & Westernizing Syria, and if the U.S.
exerted a little smart diplomacy, could be a valuable ally.


Hogwash. Any country which supports terrorist groups like Hezbollah, is
in no way a potential ally to the US.


Yep.

BTW Hezbollah is supported more by Iran than by Syria. And they have a
large political wing which gives them a stake in realistic solutions.

Iran uses Syria (and much of formerly Syrian-controlled Lebanon) as a
Hezbollah supply route. In this way, Syria is just as much to blame.

If we get Syria to pull back (which would take some smarts & some time)
then that gives Hezbollah an even bigger reason to play nice.

Syria already pulled their troops out of Lebanon...but much of its
intelligence agency and Hezbollah-support network remains behind. It was
those elements that killed Hariri. Bush and our European allies tried to do
just as you proposed...but the assassination threw a monkey wrench into the
plan. That's why there's so much outrage among the US, UK, and France over
the assassination.




But I suppose you must rant & rave about how they are evil violent
fundamentalists (while ignoring the fact that you're a fundamentalist
advocate of violence yourself) & we should kill them all, somehow.


But I belong to the militarily stronger fundamentalist group.




We could influence him to grant slightly more human rights, too; although
somebody will first have to convince President Bush that torture is for
bad guys.


President Bush already knows that torture is for bad guys.

Then why did he promise to veto a bill defining torture as against US
policy? Or are you saying that President Bush is one of the bad guys?

No. I'm saying that he knows to use torture only on the really bad guys.

We'd know in a heartbeat if a Russian nuke was detonated on US soil.

How?


NOYB wrote:
From the isotopic signature.


Tell you what... I don't think so, and I bet the Russians don't either.



He has no interest in helping us. In fact, he's working feverishly to
subvert our efforts in Iraq.


Baloney. I suppose this comes out of the same spew that provides all the
ranting about Iran's insurgency is all foreigners.



The true native Iraqi "insurgents" are no longer very effective at killing
American and Iraq military and police forces.

Really? They've done a heck of a lot of it, but I suppose if you compare
them to the NVA then yeah, they're not as effective.

Are we going to stay in Iraq until the casualty count hit 50K +? I
sincerely hope NOT!




... Though they may outnumber the
foreign fighters, their actions account for very few of the more recent
(within 6 months) American and Iraqi casualties.


Says who?

Suicide bombers and insurgents aren't the same thing.

"American commanders say that foreigners make up more than 90 percent of
the suicide bombers. Many of those suicide attacks are directed at
civilians."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/21/in...21baghdad.html


blah blah blah
You're talking about apples and trying to convince everyone it means
oranges.

You'd have better luck quoting this source: "The insurgency in Iraq is
on it's last legs" - Vice President Dick Cheney


... Hezbollah is supported more by Iran than by Syria. And they have a
large political wing which gives them a stake in realistic solutions.


Iran uses Syria (and much of formerly Syrian-controlled Lebanon) as a
Hezbollah supply route. In this way, Syria is just as much to blame.


I'd agree. We should be concentrating on chopping them off at the knees,
not destabilizing the whole region.





If we get Syria to pull back (which would take some smarts & some time)
then that gives Hezbollah an even bigger reason to play nice.


Syria already pulled their troops out of Lebanon...but much of its
intelligence agency and Hezbollah-support network remains behind.

Umm, for the third time: Hezbollah is neither Syrian nor Iranian. They
are primarily Palestinian but with pan-Arab roots (or pretenses to that,
anyway). Their main enemy is Israel, and their main antagonist is the
whole Western concept of secularism.

If you want to pick a fight, identifying the enemy makes a good first
step, nyet?



.... It was
those elements that killed Hariri. Bush and our European allies tried to do
just as you proposed...but the assassination threw a monkey wrench into the
plan.

Not really. The assassination was a tragedy for Lebanon but also
strengthened the hand of the pro-Western moderates. That's true inside
Syria as well, and we would be smart to encourage that development.






But I suppose you must rant & rave about how they are evil violent
fundamentalists (while ignoring the fact that you're a fundamentalist
advocate of violence yourself) & we should kill them all, somehow.



But I belong to the militarily stronger fundamentalist group.


That's what General Westmoreland said in 1967.



President Bush already knows that torture is for bad guys.

Then why did he promise to veto a bill defining torture as against US
policy? Or are you saying that President Bush is one of the bad guys?


No. I'm saying that he knows to use torture only on the really bad guys.



So, using brutal & evil methods is really good IYHO?

DSK

NOYB wrote:

We'd know in a heartbeat if a Russian nuke was detonated on US soil.

How?

From the isotopic signature.


Bull****!! Their radionuclide composition (and thus their age and
origin) can be determined. BUT, "origin" in this case means what base
materials it came from NOT what country!! If you don't have an example,
you'd still not know even after obtaining the isotopic signature.
Signature is used for things like, say Chernobyl. They have the
original material, the reactor fuel, so, when they find a radionuclide
compostition, they can then compare the signature with the original.