On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:18:08 GMT, "Rural Knight"
wrote:

It's an expression related to combat (and other things) and
means to check behind you. Think of the face of a clock -
twelve would be high or in front (depending on plane), six
below or behind (depending on plane), etc.

It's a way to orient yourself in free space.
=====================================

Interesting, thanks.

Unless they were Bayliner Motoryachts! I have never seen such large wakes
form boats of this size (30-40 ft). There are other culprits of course ,
but the Bayliners are bad...they seem to plow through the water and never
really come on plane! And no.. this is NOT a troll!

Larry


The worst culprits have been the 32 and 38 footers. Engines set under the
cockpit made these boats butt heavy. The designers used straight outboard
shafts, which required prop pockets. The prop pockets reduced the buoyant mass
under the transom, additionally compounding the problem.

Later model Bayliners have corrected this tendency.

Up until that point there had been some interesting situations developing
where I found myself on intersecting courses with other boats. Three times
in fact and in each situation my understanding of the colregs indicated
that
I should be given right of way (I was off their starboard bow and
maintaining a steady course and speed).


A minor clarification for your future reference: Your understanding of the
COLREGS in the situations you described is fundamentally correct, however
your terminology is somewhat dated. Some years ago, those who make such
policy decisions decided to abandon the concept and term of "right of way".
I suspect it has to do with implication that a vessel with the "right of
way" has carte blanche to do whatever suited his fancy. The current concept
and terminology declares the burdened vessel the "give way" vessel, and the
privileged vessel the "stand on" vessel. The "give way" vessel is expected
to take early and substantial action by way of changing course and/or speed
to stay clear of the "stand on" vessel. The "stand on" vessel must, in
normal conditions, maintain course and speed, just as you have described
your actions. The difference is mostly semantical, in that no one actually
gave you a right of way, but rather you were obliged by the rules of the
road to maintain course and speed, which you did. The other vessels were
obliged to alter course and/or speed, which they apparently did. Under
current terminology, no vessel actually had a "right of way." The exception
to this concept and rule is when for whatever reason, a collision appears
imminent. In that case each vessel is required to take whatever action
necessary to avoid collision, even if it means violating the conventional
rules of the road.

Some years ago, those who make such
policy decisions decided to abandon the concept and term of "right of way".

"Right-of-way" is still used in one case: Inland Rules, Rule 14, (d), states:
"...a power driven vessel.....proceeding downbound with a following current
shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel...."

Rural Knight wrote:


Welcome to the world of big boats, big wakes, big egos, big idiots.
Ok, idiots is a little harsh - selfish, uncaring idiots is better.

You see this all the time around the Mystic/Newport area. Most of
the vessels are 50+, capable of running 30-40 knots and throw a wake
that look like freakin' mountains.

There's not much you can do about it,

Actually, there is a LOT you can do about it. Complain to the Coast Guard &
local water cops, naming the boat, the time, the location, and refer to your
log.

An even better answer is to videotape the offender, making sure you get a good
shot of the registration numbers, ame & home port, and/or the helmsperson. In
my experience, if they see you videotaping them, they immediately start minding
their manners.

A lot of big boats are operated by pros. If they generate enough complaints, or
even one of the right sort of complaint, they can have their license yanked.
Most pros are aware of this and tread very lightly on ground that could lose
them their livelihood.

IMHO the worst offenders are the high dollar sportsfishermen. Relatively few of
them are captained by pros, usually a drunk egomaniac is at the controls
showing off for his buddies.




We've all been there - the bigger boats have the same rights to
the water as you do - as long as they weren't violating any rules
or regulations, you just have to deal with it.

Bigger boats do not have the right to endanger others, and ALL boaters are
responsible for their wake. FWIW I agree that the presence of dangerous idiots
on the road & on the water is the status quo, but it is the responsibility of
all to try and improve things, not shrug it off.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:15:08 -0400, DSK
wrote:

Rural Knight wrote:


Welcome to the world of big boats, big wakes, big egos, big idiots.
Ok, idiots is a little harsh - selfish, uncaring idiots is better.

You see this all the time around the Mystic/Newport area. Most of
the vessels are 50+, capable of running 30-40 knots and throw a wake
that look like freakin' mountains.

There's not much you can do about it,

Actually, there is a LOT you can do about it. Complain to the Coast Guard &
local water cops, naming the boat, the time, the location, and refer to your
log.

An even better answer is to videotape the offender, making sure you get a good
shot of the registration numbers, ame & home port, and/or the helmsperson. In
my experience, if they see you videotaping them, they immediately start minding
their manners.

A lot of big boats are operated by pros. If they generate enough complaints, or
even one of the right sort of complaint, they can have their license yanked.
Most pros are aware of this and tread very lightly on ground that could lose
them their livelihood.

IMHO the worst offenders are the high dollar sportsfishermen. Relatively few of
them are captained by pros, usually a drunk egomaniac is at the controls
showing off for his buddies.




We've all been there - the bigger boats have the same rights to
the water as you do - as long as they weren't violating any rules
or regulations, you just have to deal with it.

Bigger boats do not have the right to endanger others, and ALL boaters are
responsible for their wake. FWIW I agree that the presence of dangerous idiots
on the road & on the water is the status quo, but it is the responsibility of
all to try and improve things, not shrug it off.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


....nice Philosophy you got there. Can I borrow it? )

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:15:08 -0400, DSK
wrote:

Rural Knight wrote:


Welcome to the world of big boats, big wakes, big egos, big idiots.
Ok, idiots is a little harsh - selfish, uncaring idiots is better.

You see this all the time around the Mystic/Newport area. Most of
the vessels are 50+, capable of running 30-40 knots and throw a wake
that look like freakin' mountains.

There's not much you can do about it,

Actually, there is a LOT you can do about it. Complain to the Coast Guard
&
local water cops, naming the boat, the time, the location, and refer to
your
log.

An even better answer is to videotape the offender, making sure you get a
good
shot of the registration numbers, ame & home port, and/or the
helmsperson. In
my experience, if they see you videotaping them, they immediately start
minding
their manners.

A lot of big boats are operated by pros. If they generate enough
complaints, or
even one of the right sort of complaint, they can have their license
yanked.
Most pros are aware of this and tread very lightly on ground that could
lose
them their livelihood.

IMHO the worst offenders are the high dollar sportsfishermen. Relatively
few of
them are captained by pros, usually a drunk egomaniac is at the controls
showing off for his buddies.




We've all been there - the bigger boats have the same rights to
the water as you do - as long as they weren't violating any rules
or regulations, you just have to deal with it.

Bigger boats do not have the right to endanger others, and ALL boaters
are
responsible for their wake. FWIW I agree that the presence of dangerous
idiots
on the road & on the water is the status quo, but it is the
responsibility of
all to try and improve things, not shrug it off.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

...nice Philosophy you got there. Can I borrow it? )

Ok, you put your boat in the way first.

I'll go after you finish. ;)

Later,

Tom

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:15:53 GMT, "Rural Knight"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:15:08 -0400, DSK
wrote:

Rural Knight wrote:


Welcome to the world of big boats, big wakes, big egos, big idiots.
Ok, idiots is a little harsh - selfish, uncaring idiots is better.

You see this all the time around the Mystic/Newport area. Most of
the vessels are 50+, capable of running 30-40 knots and throw a wake
that look like freakin' mountains.

There's not much you can do about it,

Actually, there is a LOT you can do about it. Complain to the Coast
Guard
&
local water cops, naming the boat, the time, the location, and refer
to
your
log.

An even better answer is to videotape the offender, making sure you
get a
good
shot of the registration numbers, ame & home port, and/or the
helmsperson. In
my experience, if they see you videotaping them, they immediately
start
minding
their manners.

A lot of big boats are operated by pros. If they generate enough
complaints, or
even one of the right sort of complaint, they can have their license
yanked.
Most pros are aware of this and tread very lightly on ground that
could
lose
them their livelihood.

IMHO the worst offenders are the high dollar sportsfishermen.
Relatively
few of
them are captained by pros, usually a drunk egomaniac is at the
controls
showing off for his buddies.




We've all been there - the bigger boats have the same rights to
the water as you do - as long as they weren't violating any rules
or regulations, you just have to deal with it.

Bigger boats do not have the right to endanger others, and ALL boaters
are
responsible for their wake. FWIW I agree that the presence of
dangerous
idiots
on the road & on the water is the status quo, but it is the
responsibility of
all to try and improve things, not shrug it off.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

...nice Philosophy you got there. Can I borrow it? )

Ok, you put your boat in the way first.

I'll go after you finish. ;)

Later,

Tom


LOL!! No heroics for me, I'm way to old, and the old Arc doesn't
manuever well. 100 cubits takes a while to come about.

It was *this* part that I wanted to borrow "...it is the
responsibility of all to try and improve things, not shrug it off."

Agreed.

Later,

Tom

It was *this* part that I wanted to borrow "...it is the
responsibility of all to try and improve things, not shrug it off."

Rural Knight wrote:
Agreed.

Thanks... btw it could well be argued that videotaping other people without
their permission is also rude...

I often see boats that I'd like to take pictures of, and if I can't maneuver
around to asking permission (I have always had slow boats, either sailboats or
our 'new' trawler) then I don't take pictures.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Paul Writes

From behind us came three big cruisers, each around 30', making about 20+
knots it seemed. They passed us close on the port side, maybe 200'. They
were lined up one directly behind the other and they were close enough
together that all three had passed before the wakes reached us.

I am *very* new to all this, but if the boats were overtaking you their
wakes would approach from your stern quarter. Could you have steered to
starboard thus taking the wake square on to your stern? Obviously less
comfortable than bow-first, but more stable than beam-on, and you'd not
impede the overtaking vessels.

--
Trevor Dennis
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