*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a 31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


BTW, Crownline is building a pretty decent boat these days. They have
two very elite "C" brands glancing nervously back over their corportae
shoulders.


I never said anything to the contrary.

My problem was with a company marketing a 30~31 foot bowrider.

And my point was that if you examine what you're being shown, it's
really a 26-foot boat with an oversized swimstep.

wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a
31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all
for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a
31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all
for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

Not at all. Out west here, boaters refer to such events as "wakes", not
rogue waves. The tourist boat tragedy in NY could have been prevented
if the boat were properly staffed. (The owner was trying to get by
cheap and not hire the two crew members the CG required him to have).
With two additional crew members, the skipper would have been more
likely to maintain adequate "situational awareness" and adjust course
so that he didn't take that huge wake directly on the beam. If nothing
else, the port or starboard watch could say, "You do see that huge wake
approacing, right?"

wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based
on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of
rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an
extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending
on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on
the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as
they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a
31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all
for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a
boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water
in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

Not at all. Out west here, boaters refer to such events as "wakes", not
rogue waves.

I will accept your terminology.

That does not, however, dismiss the possibility of such an event. Do you
disagree Chuck?

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based
on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of
rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an
extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending
on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on
the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as
they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a
31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all
for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a
boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water
in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

Not at all. Out west here, boaters refer to such events as "wakes", not
rogue waves.

I will accept your terminology.

That does not, however, dismiss the possibility of such an event. Do you
disagree Chuck?


I agree that a bowrider falls into the category of "open boat."
The operator of an open boat must remain alert to water conditions at
all times.
A bowrider has no business out in conditions where the wind is
generating breaking waves that are likely to swamp the vessel. As far
as wakes, or even a genuine "rogue wave", an alert operator will be
able to deal with 99.999% of them by slowing down a bit and/or
adjusting his course to quarter into the wave.
The danger to an open boat is not so much the height of a wave as
whether or not the wave has a propensity to break. You can go up and
over a pretty steep wave or wake, but if the crest is higher than the
gunwale *and* it starts to break you need to be lucky as well as able.
After enough of those, (as in "you've got no darn business out here in
these conditions") your luck will probably run out.

I would always prefer a boat with a closed bow, myself, but millions of
boaters on inland lakes will choose a boat based on an entirely
different set of needs and preferances.

(IIRC, that tourist boat was a catamaran, not a bow rider.)

(IIRC, that tourist boat was a catamaran, not a bow rider.)

Not at all. It was kind of a tubby, round bottom mono hull. The USCG
started to do a stability test on a sistership by filling barrels with
water on the gunnels. They had to stop about halfway through the test
because they were already at the safety limit for maximum listing.
USCG testing was not required for licensing because it was being
operated on an inland lake, and the New York State certification
standards were not nearly rigorous enough. Lots of blame to go around
as it turns out.

wrote:
(IIRC, that tourist boat was a catamaran, not a bow rider.)

Not at all. It was kind of a tubby, round bottom mono hull. The USCG
started to do a stability test on a sistership by filling barrels with
water on the gunnels. They had to stop about halfway through the test
because they were already at the safety limit for maximum listing.
USCG testing was not required for licensing because it was being
operated on an inland lake, and the New York State certification
standards were not nearly rigorous enough. Lots of blame to go around
as it turns out.

Aha. Now I am better informed. Was there any truth to the radio news
story we heard about the boat only being certified for passenger use
with a crew of three aboard?

wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

*JimH* wrote:
..........Crownline, for building a 31.5 foot *Bowrider*!

http://www.crownline.com/models04/mo...p?id=316_ls_05

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/2.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/3.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/4.jpg

http://www.crownline.com/models05/bo...16ls/big/5.jpg

A 31.5 foot bowrider? What the hell were these folks thinking?

Let me give you a hand interpreting the data you've discovered.

First, it doesn't matter what the nominal length appears to be based
on
the model number ("316 LS"), you need to check the actual LOA.

That brings us down to 30-feet.

Then you need to actually evaluate how the boat is configured.
In this case, that 30 foot LOA includes an extended swim step of
rather
exaggerated size. It appears to be at least 32", maybe even a 45-48"
swim step.

Looks like Crownline is offering about a 26-foot bowrider with an
extra
large swim step (some people might find that rather handy, depending
on
application) that stretches the boat to 30 feet LOA.

No doubt they'll
catch a few folks who think the boat is over 31 feet long based on
the
model number, or who don't take the time to evaluate the design as
they
look at the boat.


Yep. I was mistaken. From their website: LOA 30' yet marketed as a
31.5
footer. Sorry, I missed it by 1'6".

So it boils down to 30 foot bowrider with a bunch of wasted space, all
for
$130,000.

How attractive it that?



Bowriders are fine for inland lakes during settled weather; and that
describes the conditions under which about 90% of boaters use a
boat.

Bull. And you never addressed the hazards of a bowrider on open water
in
unexpected rough weather or encountering rogue waves from other boats.

If bowriders are so great why don't you own one Chuck?


Because I don't boat on inland lakes during settled weather?

I have yet to see a boat generate a rogue wave. Must be a Great Lakes
thing.


Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

Not at all. Out west here, boaters refer to such events as "wakes", not
rogue waves. The tourist boat tragedy in NY could have been prevented
if the boat were properly staffed. (The owner was trying to get by
cheap and not hire the two crew members the CG required him to have).
With two additional crew members, the skipper would have been more
likely to maintain adequate "situational awareness" and adjust course
so that he didn't take that huge wake directly on the beam. If nothing
else, the port or starboard watch could say, "You do see that huge wake
approacing, right?"

*JimH* wrote:

Rogue or not, I guess you missed the recent tourist boat tragedy in NY.

That boat that capsized was a 30' bowrider???

If you keep it in a marina, you might pay for a few extra feet that
Crownline decided to market it as. I'd rather let a marina see the
number 261LS than 316LS before they quoted me a price. That piece of
bigger is better marketing might cost me 5 more feet or almost 20%
more.

John