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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
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#2
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
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#3
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Starbuckaroo wrote:
Skipper, From what I can tell from your posts, you are suggesting Gould recommended donating a boat to Charity for tax purposes, which is neither illegal or immoral. You can pretty well bet Chucky has not been going to such extremes avoiding the requested discussion for that reason. Actually, the reason he's been so evasive goes to his basic honesty. And on that subject, I believe his *evasiveness* negates the need for further discussion. Prosecution rests. Note - It is however a shame the NG did not benefit from an informative and on-topic discussion of AIMS. -- Skipper |
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#4
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Skipper,
What is the name of the charity? "Skipper" wrote in message ... Starbuckaroo wrote: Skipper, From what I can tell from your posts, you are suggesting Gould recommended donating a boat to Charity for tax purposes, which is neither illegal or immoral. You can pretty well bet Chucky has not been going to such extremes avoiding the requested discussion for that reason. Actually, the reason he's been so evasive goes to his basic honesty. And on that subject, I believe his *evasiveness* negates the need for further discussion. Prosecution rests. Note - It is however a shame the NG did not benefit from an informative and on-topic discussion of AIMS. -- Skipper |
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#5
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Psuedo, you're a simpering dweeb. Here are a couple of links to sites that describe some of the work done by the organization with which I was once associated. As you say, the NG has many bright members who can decide for themselves (assuming they gave a ratz patoot in the first place)whether your charge that I was engaged in a dishonest business and involved in "tax fraud" has any merit or not. There were some abuses throughout the entire boat donation industry, and the firm I worked with was probably not a vestal virgin. No business (or person) is perfect, or absolutely ethical 24/7/365. That business morality doesn't automatically reflect on the morality or the ethics of everybody involved. In recent years, we have seen many news accounts of pedophile priests and attempts by bishops, etc, to cover up the crimes of these guys and just transfer them from church to church rather than deal with the problem. I assume, by your standards, that if ever you meet a priest you're going to assume he's a pedophile? If there are 10 people working in a church and it is ultimately discovered that the priest has been having his way with the altar boys in the confession booth, would you consider the church secretary, the janitor, etc etc etc pedophiles as well? Would you consider any church to be the domain of a pedophile? Still have any of that literature you claim I gave you 6 or 7 years ago? If so, take a look at it. Every page had bold statements urging people considering the donation of a boat to check with their own attorney or tax professional before going ahead. Most did, and some of them discovered that for various reasons, (such as AMT, specific bracketing, etc), it wouldn't be a good idea to proceed. Fine. In my role, I wasn't in the business of giving tax advice but I could explain the mechanics of the program as it would be implemented for people who chose to make a donation. We continuously urged prospective donors to get some independent advice before donating. http://www.miami.edu/campaign/donors...s_dp_aims.html http://www.aims-nw.org/seattleservice.htm http://www.mpcfaculty.net/tami_lunsf...returnsweb.pdf http://www.miami.edu/campaign/donors...s_dp_aims.html As far as I'm concerned, that's my portion of this "discussion". GFYS. (go fantasize you're skipper) |
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#6
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Chuck,
I have always considered any charity that spends less than 10% of it's contributions on administration and fund raising, as an extremely reputable and efficient charity. My favorite charity spends 3% on admin and fund raising. The BBB uses 35% for admin and fund raising as their criteria for evaluating reputable charities. The AIMS is not listed on www.Give.org , http://www.charitywatch.org/, or http://www.charitynavigator.org/. This is normally a red flag. What percent of AIM's contributions are used for admin and fund raising? This info was not available on AIMS web site, which is another red flag to look at the charity closely before contributing. wrote in message oups.com... Psuedo, you're a simpering dweeb. Here are a couple of links to sites that describe some of the work done by the organization with which I was once associated. As you say, the NG has many bright members who can decide for themselves (assuming they gave a ratz patoot in the first place)whether your charge that I was engaged in a dishonest business and involved in "tax fraud" has any merit or not. There were some abuses throughout the entire boat donation industry, and the firm I worked with was probably not a vestal virgin. No business (or person) is perfect, or absolutely ethical 24/7/365. That business morality doesn't automatically reflect on the morality or the ethics of everybody involved. In recent years, we have seen many news accounts of pedophile priests and attempts by bishops, etc, to cover up the crimes of these guys and just transfer them from church to church rather than deal with the problem. I assume, by your standards, that if ever you meet a priest you're going to assume he's a pedophile? If there are 10 people working in a church and it is ultimately discovered that the priest has been having his way with the altar boys in the confession booth, would you consider the church secretary, the janitor, etc etc etc pedophiles as well? Would you consider any church to be the domain of a pedophile? Still have any of that literature you claim I gave you 6 or 7 years ago? If so, take a look at it. Every page had bold statements urging people considering the donation of a boat to check with their own attorney or tax professional before going ahead. Most did, and some of them discovered that for various reasons, (such as AMT, specific bracketing, etc), it wouldn't be a good idea to proceed. Fine. In my role, I wasn't in the business of giving tax advice but I could explain the mechanics of the program as it would be implemented for people who chose to make a donation. We continuously urged prospective donors to get some independent advice before donating. http://www.miami.edu/campaign/donors...s_dp_aims.html http://www.aims-nw.org/seattleservice.htm http://www.mpcfaculty.net/tami_lunsf...returnsweb.pdf http://www.miami.edu/campaign/donors...s_dp_aims.html As far as I'm concerned, that's my portion of this "discussion". GFYS. (go fantasize you're skipper) |
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#7
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Starbucker wrote: Chuck, I have always considered any charity that spends less than 10% of it's contributions on administration and fund raising, as an extremely reputable and efficient charity. My favorite charity spends 3% on admin and fund raising. The BBB uses 35% for admin and fund raising as their criteria for evaluating reputable charities. The AIMS is not listed on www.Give.org , http://www.charitywatch.org/, or http://www.charitynavigator.org/. This is normally a red flag. What percent of AIM's contributions are used for admin and fund raising? This info was not available on AIMS web site, which is another red flag to look at the charity closely before contributing. I never made any representations as to the specific percentages spent for programs. I refered those inquiries to our accounting office. Very few of the donors even gave a rats patoot about the nature of the org's programs, they were all primarily interested in dumping their boat for a combinatin of a little cash and a tax writeoff. (IRS approved "bargain sale") Less was spent on programs than could have been, but I know of a couple of similar programs where almost *nothing* was spent on programs. Enough was spent to qualify as a 501C3. I am sure the organization spent far more than some on administration and fund raising than some groups and far less than others. One of the accounting problems you run into with a "boat donation" organization is the very high and continuing cost of maintaining donated vessels and moorage, etc. There are more costs than are involved with a group that simply deposits checks into a bank account and then writes smaller checks in return. I can tell you that the overhead for my services was in the 15% bracket, (of the boats that I personally received on donation and resold). Another challenge is that the percentage would vary from time to time. When I joined up with this group in Seattle, they were having a real tough go of it. Very few people were donating boats, and just paying the office rent and keeping the lights turned on probably used up something in the high double digits of the money actually coming in. During the time I was there the number of donations just happened to go up significantly, (we received an average of one boat per week) and programs expanded as a result. The organization may not appear on your approved charities list for a number or reasons. One of which is that it, and most boat donation programs, are now out of business due to a change in the tax law. And, it may never have been run efficiently enough to qualify in the first place. We were on some approved lists when I was there in the late 90's, but I can't remember which lists those were. Your post is a perfect example. If you had approached me in the late 90's as a prospective boat donor with the concerns you expressed here, I would have told you; "We do a significant amount funding and charitable work. Our accounting office can give you more specific details. Most of our donors are more motivated by the tax benefits than by the exact nature of the work the Institute does, and the tax benefits do not change based upon the administrative overhead of any specific agency or organization. If after checking with your attorney or tax advisor you want to make a donation but you are not satisfied with the results of your research into our programs and would prefer to donate elsewhere, that would be your option. I'm happy to explain who we are and how the program works- you need to decide if it's the right thing for you to do, or not. You can always sell your boat directly and give the cash to whatever group you like." ((Of course 90% of the boats we received on donations were from sellers who had despaired of the sales process and just wanted to be "rid" of the boat, so few thought that continuing a private sales process and donating the cash was a good idea.)) |
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#8
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Chuck,
Many legitimate charities accept car and boat donations http://www.donateacar.com/charities.html, why would someone want to use the AIMS Charity to donate their boat verses the ones listed on this web site. You seem like someone who likes to help the less fortunate, don't you try to find the most efficient charity before contributing your time, talent or money to the charity? Did AIMS offer a higher value, and thus a higher tax write off than the larger charities? wrote in message oups.com... Starbucker wrote: Chuck, I have always considered any charity that spends less than 10% of it's contributions on administration and fund raising, as an extremely reputable and efficient charity. My favorite charity spends 3% on admin and fund raising. The BBB uses 35% for admin and fund raising as their criteria for evaluating reputable charities. The AIMS is not listed on www.Give.org , http://www.charitywatch.org/, or http://www.charitynavigator.org/. This is normally a red flag. What percent of AIM's contributions are used for admin and fund raising? This info was not available on AIMS web site, which is another red flag to look at the charity closely before contributing. I never made any representations as to the specific percentages spent for programs. I refered those inquiries to our accounting office. Very few of the donors even gave a rats patoot about the nature of the org's programs, they were all primarily interested in dumping their boat for a combinatin of a little cash and a tax writeoff. (IRS approved "bargain sale") Less was spent on programs than could have been, but I know of a couple of similar programs where almost *nothing* was spent on programs. Enough was spent to qualify as a 501C3. I am sure the organization spent far more than some on administration and fund raising than some groups and far less than others. One of the accounting problems you run into with a "boat donation" organization is the very high and continuing cost of maintaining donated vessels and moorage, etc. There are more costs than are involved with a group that simply deposits checks into a bank account and then writes smaller checks in return. I can tell you that the overhead for my services was in the 15% bracket, (of the boats that I personally received on donation and resold). Another challenge is that the percentage would vary from time to time. When I joined up with this group in Seattle, they were having a real tough go of it. Very few people were donating boats, and just paying the office rent and keeping the lights turned on probably used up something in the high double digits of the money actually coming in. During the time I was there the number of donations just happened to go up significantly, (we received an average of one boat per week) and programs expanded as a result. The organization may not appear on your approved charities list for a number or reasons. One of which is that it, and most boat donation programs, are now out of business due to a change in the tax law. And, it may never have been run efficiently enough to qualify in the first place. We were on some approved lists when I was there in the late 90's, but I can't remember which lists those were. Your post is a perfect example. If you had approached me in the late 90's as a prospective boat donor with the concerns you expressed here, I would have told you; "We do a significant amount funding and charitable work. Our accounting office can give you more specific details. Most of our donors are more motivated by the tax benefits than by the exact nature of the work the Institute does, and the tax benefits do not change based upon the administrative overhead of any specific agency or organization. If after checking with your attorney or tax advisor you want to make a donation but you are not satisfied with the results of your research into our programs and would prefer to donate elsewhere, that would be your option. I'm happy to explain who we are and how the program works- you need to decide if it's the right thing for you to do, or not. You can always sell your boat directly and give the cash to whatever group you like." ((Of course 90% of the boats we received on donations were from sellers who had despaired of the sales process and just wanted to be "rid" of the boat, so few thought that continuing a private sales process and donating the cash was a good idea.)) |
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#9
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Starbucker wrote: Chuck, Many legitimate charities accept car and boat donations http://www.donateacar.com/charities.html, why would someone want to use the AIMS Charity to donate their boat verses the ones listed on this web site. Primarily because of the structure of the proposal itself. Any number of organizations will take almost anything of value you'd care to give them free of charge. Very few organizations will enter into an IRS approved "bargain sale". Example: Joe Doaks is trying to sell a boat. He owes $25,000 on a marine mortgage secured by the boat, and every month the boat remains unsold costs him about $1000 in moorage, interest, insurance, maintenance, etc. If he calls "lighthouse for the blind" or something of that sort, they will be happy to accept title to his boat- after he's borrowed $25k against his house or pulled the money out of savings to clear the title. Let's say that an independent appraiser, (marine surveyor), has inspected Joe's boat and written an expert opinion that the vessel is worth $125,000. After shelling out the $25k needed to clear the title, Joe will get a tax write-off of an amount equal to the fair market value of the vessel. If Joe was in the old 40% bracket, that tax write off would save him $50,000 in taxes. ( There were limitations on the amount that could be deducted in any one year, based upon a percentage of AGI. If Joe couldn't use the entire $50k in one year, he could carry it forward). Under a "bargain sale", Joe surrenders his boat for a combination of cash and charitable donation. In the above example, an organization might offer Joe $25,000 in cash for the title to his boat (enough to clear up the loan without taking out a mortgage on his house or depleting his savings). Based on the expert opinion of an independent appraiser, Joe could take a tax write-off of the fair market value of the vessel less the bargain sale cash. $125,000 FMV less $25,000 bargain sale cash would leave a tax write-off of $100,000. In the old 40% bracket, that would leave Joe with a $40,000 tax savings. Joe effectively realizes $65,000 under the bargain sale approach ($40k tax savings plus $25k cash) rather than $50,000 under the "straight give-away" approach, and isn't stuck paying for a boat that is long gone. You seem like someone who likes to help the less fortunate, don't you try to find the most efficient charity before contributing your time, talent or money to the charity? Contribute?? I was a paid fund raiser. It was my livlihood. I don't remember ever applying anywhere for sainthood. :-) The organization got a highly effective fundraiser in exchange for a very attractive income. (15% X 1 boat a week average: do the math- but there were a few pretty cheap boats in the mix here and there). I took a pretty fair chunk of cash out of that arrangement, but for every 15 cents I took out there was 85 cents left over. I saw the local branch of the organization hire three full-time school teachers to present programs in public and private schools. I watched it fund and staff a boat-based summer camp for school kids. I actually participated in some programs, chiefly by skippering some boatloads of disadvantaged kids on educational cruises around Lake Union and Lake Washington. Etc, etc. The honest answer is I can't tell you how much of the 85-cents I passed through to the organization was used for programs vs. overhead, and for reasons explained up the thread. Exactly because the individual deals were as lucrative as they were, there was no need to misrepresent the program to people. If we got five leads a week and four fully informed prospects said "no thanks, it's not for me at this time" there was still more than enough money to be made doing business with the one fully informed prospect who felt it was time to just get rid of that darned old boat. :-) Only people with very little talent for sales need to lie and cheat their way to a deal. Good salespeople can operate honestly, and a sharp and ethical salesperson will always make a lot more money than a crooked one...(the closing ratio is that much higher). Did AIMS offer a higher value, and thus a higher tax write off than the larger charities? No. We didn't offer or suggest any value at all. Values were determined by independent marine surveyors, and those same surveys (paid for by the potential donors) could be used to donate a boat to any organization of the donor's choice. We had some cases where a donor's boat wouldn't survey as highly as the donor hoped it would and a transaction would fall apart as a result. We had other cases where the potential donor did wind up using the survey value to donate to another organization. Fine, no problem. There was enough money in the deals that did go through to carry on rather nicely. wrote in message oups.com... Starbucker wrote: Chuck, I have always considered any charity that spends less than 10% of it's contributions on administration and fund raising, as an extremely reputable and efficient charity. My favorite charity spends 3% on admin and fund raising. The BBB uses 35% for admin and fund raising as their criteria for evaluating reputable charities. The AIMS is not listed on www.Give.org , http://www.charitywatch.org/, or http://www.charitynavigator.org/. This is normally a red flag. What percent of AIM's contributions are used for admin and fund raising? This info was not available on AIMS web site, which is another red flag to look at the charity closely before contributing. I never made any representations as to the specific percentages spent for programs. I refered those inquiries to our accounting office. Very few of the donors even gave a rats patoot about the nature of the org's programs, they were all primarily interested in dumping their boat for a combinatin of a little cash and a tax writeoff. (IRS approved "bargain sale") Less was spent on programs than could have been, but I know of a couple of similar programs where almost *nothing* was spent on programs. Enough was spent to qualify as a 501C3. I am sure the organization spent far more than some on administration and fund raising than some groups and far less than others. One of the accounting problems you run into with a "boat donation" organization is the very high and continuing cost of maintaining donated vessels and moorage, etc. There are more costs than are involved with a group that simply deposits checks into a bank account and then writes smaller checks in return. I can tell you that the overhead for my services was in the 15% bracket, (of the boats that I personally received on donation and resold). Another challenge is that the percentage would vary from time to time. When I joined up with this group in Seattle, they were having a real tough go of it. Very few people were donating boats, and just paying the office rent and keeping the lights turned on probably used up something in the high double digits of the money actually coming in. During the time I was there the number of donations just happened to go up significantly, (we received an average of one boat per week) and programs expanded as a result. The organization may not appear on your approved charities list for a number or reasons. One of which is that it, and most boat donation programs, are now out of business due to a change in the tax law. And, it may never have been run efficiently enough to qualify in the first place. We were on some approved lists when I was there in the late 90's, but I can't remember which lists those were. Your post is a perfect example. If you had approached me in the late 90's as a prospective boat donor with the concerns you expressed here, I would have told you; "We do a significant amount funding and charitable work. Our accounting office can give you more specific details. Most of our donors are more motivated by the tax benefits than by the exact nature of the work the Institute does, and the tax benefits do not change based upon the administrative overhead of any specific agency or organization. If after checking with your attorney or tax advisor you want to make a donation but you are not satisfied with the results of your research into our programs and would prefer to donate elsewhere, that would be your option. I'm happy to explain who we are and how the program works- you need to decide if it's the right thing for you to do, or not. You can always sell your boat directly and give the cash to whatever group you like." ((Of course 90% of the boats we received on donations were from sellers who had despaired of the sales process and just wanted to be "rid" of the boat, so few thought that continuing a private sales process and donating the cash was a good idea.)) |
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#10
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Old Tyme Boat Brochure Photos, Amusing attire
Chuck,
You answered my question as to why someone would use AIM for their boat donation, Thanks, wrote in message oups.com... Starbucker wrote: Chuck, Many legitimate charities accept car and boat donations http://www.donateacar.com/charities.html, why would someone want to use the AIMS Charity to donate their boat verses the ones listed on this web site. Primarily because of the structure of the proposal itself. Any number of organizations will take almost anything of value you'd care to give them free of charge. Very few organizations will enter into an IRS approved "bargain sale". Example: Joe Doaks is trying to sell a boat. He owes $25,000 on a marine mortgage secured by the boat, and every month the boat remains unsold costs him about $1000 in moorage, interest, insurance, maintenance, etc. If he calls "lighthouse for the blind" or something of that sort, they will be happy to accept title to his boat- after he's borrowed $25k against his house or pulled the money out of savings to clear the title. Let's say that an independent appraiser, (marine surveyor), has inspected Joe's boat and written an expert opinion that the vessel is worth $125,000. After shelling out the $25k needed to clear the title, Joe will get a tax write-off of an amount equal to the fair market value of the vessel. If Joe was in the old 40% bracket, that tax write off would save him $50,000 in taxes. ( There were limitations on the amount that could be deducted in any one year, based upon a percentage of AGI. If Joe couldn't use the entire $50k in one year, he could carry it forward). Under a "bargain sale", Joe surrenders his boat for a combination of cash and charitable donation. In the above example, an organization might offer Joe $25,000 in cash for the title to his boat (enough to clear up the loan without taking out a mortgage on his house or depleting his savings). Based on the expert opinion of an independent appraiser, Joe could take a tax write-off of the fair market value of the vessel less the bargain sale cash. $125,000 FMV less $25,000 bargain sale cash would leave a tax write-off of $100,000. In the old 40% bracket, that would leave Joe with a $40,000 tax savings. Joe effectively realizes $65,000 under the bargain sale approach ($40k tax savings plus $25k cash) rather than $50,000 under the "straight give-away" approach, and isn't stuck paying for a boat that is long gone. You seem like someone who likes to help the less fortunate, don't you try to find the most efficient charity before contributing your time, talent or money to the charity? Contribute?? I was a paid fund raiser. It was my livlihood. I don't remember ever applying anywhere for sainthood. :-) The organization got a highly effective fundraiser in exchange for a very attractive income. (15% X 1 boat a week average: do the math- but there were a few pretty cheap boats in the mix here and there). I took a pretty fair chunk of cash out of that arrangement, but for every 15 cents I took out there was 85 cents left over. I saw the local branch of the organization hire three full-time school teachers to present programs in public and private schools. I watched it fund and staff a boat-based summer camp for school kids. I actually participated in some programs, chiefly by skippering some boatloads of disadvantaged kids on educational cruises around Lake Union and Lake Washington. Etc, etc. The honest answer is I can't tell you how much of the 85-cents I passed through to the organization was used for programs vs. overhead, and for reasons explained up the thread. Exactly because the individual deals were as lucrative as they were, there was no need to misrepresent the program to people. If we got five leads a week and four fully informed prospects said "no thanks, it's not for me at this time" there was still more than enough money to be made doing business with the one fully informed prospect who felt it was time to just get rid of that darned old boat. :-) Only people with very little talent for sales need to lie and cheat their way to a deal. Good salespeople can operate honestly, and a sharp and ethical salesperson will always make a lot more money than a crooked one...(the closing ratio is that much higher). Did AIMS offer a higher value, and thus a higher tax write off than the larger charities? No. We didn't offer or suggest any value at all. Values were determined by independent marine surveyors, and those same surveys (paid for by the potential donors) could be used to donate a boat to any organization of the donor's choice. We had some cases where a donor's boat wouldn't survey as highly as the donor hoped it would and a transaction would fall apart as a result. We had other cases where the potential donor did wind up using the survey value to donate to another organization. Fine, no problem. There was enough money in the deals that did go through to carry on rather nicely. wrote in message oups.com... Starbucker wrote: Chuck, I have always considered any charity that spends less than 10% of it's contributions on administration and fund raising, as an extremely reputable and efficient charity. My favorite charity spends 3% on admin and fund raising. The BBB uses 35% for admin and fund raising as their criteria for evaluating reputable charities. The AIMS is not listed on www.Give.org , http://www.charitywatch.org/, or http://www.charitynavigator.org/. This is normally a red flag. What percent of AIM's contributions are used for admin and fund raising? This info was not available on AIMS web site, which is another red flag to look at the charity closely before contributing. I never made any representations as to the specific percentages spent for programs. I refered those inquiries to our accounting office. Very few of the donors even gave a rats patoot about the nature of the org's programs, they were all primarily interested in dumping their boat for a combinatin of a little cash and a tax writeoff. (IRS approved "bargain sale") Less was spent on programs than could have been, but I know of a couple of similar programs where almost *nothing* was spent on programs. Enough was spent to qualify as a 501C3. I am sure the organization spent far more than some on administration and fund raising than some groups and far less than others. One of the accounting problems you run into with a "boat donation" organization is the very high and continuing cost of maintaining donated vessels and moorage, etc. There are more costs than are involved with a group that simply deposits checks into a bank account and then writes smaller checks in return. I can tell you that the overhead for my services was in the 15% bracket, (of the boats that I personally received on donation and resold). Another challenge is that the percentage would vary from time to time. When I joined up with this group in Seattle, they were having a real tough go of it. Very few people were donating boats, and just paying the office rent and keeping the lights turned on probably used up something in the high double digits of the money actually coming in. During the time I was there the number of donations just happened to go up significantly, (we received an average of one boat per week) and programs expanded as a result. The organization may not appear on your approved charities list for a number or reasons. One of which is that it, and most boat donation programs, are now out of business due to a change in the tax law. And, it may never have been run efficiently enough to qualify in the first place. We were on some approved lists when I was there in the late 90's, but I can't remember which lists those were. Your post is a perfect example. If you had approached me in the late 90's as a prospective boat donor with the concerns you expressed here, I would have told you; "We do a significant amount funding and charitable work. Our accounting office can give you more specific details. Most of our donors are more motivated by the tax benefits than by the exact nature of the work the Institute does, and the tax benefits do not change based upon the administrative overhead of any specific agency or organization. If after checking with your attorney or tax advisor you want to make a donation but you are not satisfied with the results of your research into our programs and would prefer to donate elsewhere, that would be your option. I'm happy to explain who we are and how the program works- you need to decide if it's the right thing for you to do, or not. You can always sell your boat directly and give the cash to whatever group you like." ((Of course 90% of the boats we received on donations were from sellers who had despaired of the sales process and just wanted to be "rid" of the boat, so few thought that continuing a private sales process and donating the cash was a good idea.)) |
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