HL,
How ya doing? Haven't seen you post in a while, take it you were out to
sea. Anyway welcome back and thanks for the information.
Paul

"HLAviation" wrote in message
ink.net...
If you remain in US waters, you do not require one by law. Go anywhere
else
and you will. Getting insured is impossible. 60+ft does not require a
license for recreational use. I just finished training an owner /operator
on
his 84' boat, and he has no license. He will however end up hiring a crew
to
operate and maintain the boat, he just wanted to know what he was doing.

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
A friend and I were having a discussion, I stated that if I had the
money
to
buy an ocean liner and just used it for personal pleasure (no paying
passengers) I didn't need a captain's (master's) license. I said that it
might be a bit of a problem finding someone willing to insure you
though.
My
friend disagreed, he said that after 60 feet the boat required a
captain's
license. (just to keep this post on topic to this newsgroup I'll state
that
my friend is a Republican and I'm basically a Democrat, but we don't
discuss
this at all.) :-) So I ask the group. was I correct? Also is there a
point
(size wise) where insurance companies want you to have credentials such
as
a
master's license or previous experience?
Paul

Tom,
I couldn't find any requirements for Michigan, thanks for the info.
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:01:10 -0400, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

A friend and I were having a discussion, I stated that if I had the money
to
buy an ocean liner and just used it for personal pleasure (no paying
passengers) I didn't need a captain's (master's) license. I said that it
might be a bit of a problem finding someone willing to insure you though.
My
friend disagreed, he said that after 60 feet the boat required a
captain's
license. (just to keep this post on topic to this newsgroup I'll state
that
my friend is a Republican and I'm basically a Democrat, but we don't
discuss
this at all.) :-) So I ask the group. was I correct? Also is there a
point
(size wise) where insurance companies want you to have credentials such
as a
master's license or previous experience?
Paul

There is no absolute "requirement" by statute, regulation or other in
federal waters/international waters, but....

I believe there may be a requirement for a license in any particular
state, I'm not sure about that. I'm positive that other governments
require licenses to enter their ports or territorial waters.

With regard to insurance, it's up to the individual carrier, but most
would want to have an experienced Master on board in order for them to
insure it. I occasionally get a call to deliver a boat, or take a
party beyond the Boundry Line and it's always because the insurance
company requires a licensed Master to do so.

Hope that helps.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

HLAviation wrote:
550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain, Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space is.

You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

The crew complement on one of Cosco's box boats is:

Master
Chief Mate
2nd Mate
Chief Engineer
2nd Engineer
Bosun
AB
Oilr/Motorman
OS (2 each)
Cook

Rick

And then the companies wonder why their ships get in such run down crap
condition. They took away my cook on a tug. The net effect was I went from
6hrs a day of maintenance and deck work getting done to 1.5 since my
afternoon AB was now on cooking duty. 3 months later the boss asked why the
boat looked like crap. I went off on him, and told him it was because he was
too damn cheap to keep a cook on the boat. If a crew of 6 cant keep a 132ft
tug in shape, how the hell are they supposed to do it with a 550' ship.
..
"Rick" wrote in message
hlink.net...
HLAviation wrote:
550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain,
Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss
and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space
is.

You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

The crew complement on one of Cosco's box boats is:

Master
Chief Mate
2nd Mate
Chief Engineer
2nd Engineer
Bosun
AB
Oilr/Motorman
OS (2 each)
Cook

Rick

HLAviation wrote:
And then the companies wonder why their ships get in such run down crap
condition. They took away my cook on a tug. The net effect was I went from
6hrs a day of maintenance and deck work getting done to 1.5 since my
afternoon AB was now on cooking duty. 3 months later the boss asked why the
boat looked like crap. I went off on him, and told him it was because he was
too damn cheap to keep a cook on the boat. If a crew of 6 cant keep a 132ft
tug in shape, how the hell are they supposed to do it with a 550' ship.

First off, you pay attention to the systems you install, materials used
for anything exposed to weather, and coatings.
Then, when you need work done that may be more than the crew can handle,
you hire "riding gangs" or "shore gangs" to come aboard and work under
the direction of the CM or CE and if the office bitches about appearance
you give them the "little pinkie" and tell them to hire more gangs.

otn

Rick wrote:
HLAviation wrote:

550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain,
Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3
O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space
is.


You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

Not really. There are a good number of "reefers" and "break bulk" in
this size range still running about the world going to all the ports
those big box boats and ULCC's can't get near.
Unmanned enginerooms are common, though one man bridge watches are less
so, but growing in numbers.

otn

Look under the Port State Pilot requirements. Typically a vessel with
greater than XX draft or XXX tonnage will require a state licensed pilot
when entering and leaving port regardless of flag or use. These requirements
are sometimes wavered for US flag vessels (in the US of course) if certain
requirements are met. Generally licensing is required along with a certain
number of trips along the route, typically 25, sometimes a Federal Pilotage
Exam is required.

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Tom,
I couldn't find any requirements for Michigan, thanks for the info.
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:01:10 -0400, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

A friend and I were having a discussion, I stated that if I had the
money
to
buy an ocean liner and just used it for personal pleasure (no paying
passengers) I didn't need a captain's (master's) license. I said that
it
might be a bit of a problem finding someone willing to insure you
though.
My
friend disagreed, he said that after 60 feet the boat required a
captain's
license. (just to keep this post on topic to this newsgroup I'll state
that
my friend is a Republican and I'm basically a Democrat, but we don't
discuss
this at all.) :-) So I ask the group. was I correct? Also is there a
point
(size wise) where insurance companies want you to have credentials such
as a
master's license or previous experience?
Paul

There is no absolute "requirement" by statute, regulation or other in
federal waters/international waters, but....

I believe there may be a requirement for a license in any particular
state, I'm not sure about that. I'm positive that other governments
require licenses to enter their ports or territorial waters.

With regard to insurance, it's up to the individual carrier, but most
would want to have an experienced Master on board in order for them to
insure it. I occasionally get a call to deliver a boat, or take a
party beyond the Boundry Line and it's always because the insurance
company requires a licensed Master to do so.

Hope that helps.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:15:01 GMT, "HLAviation"
wrote:

Look under the Port State Pilot requirements. Typically a vessel with
greater than XX draft or XXX tonnage will require a state licensed pilot
when entering and leaving port regardless of flag or use. These requirements
are sometimes wavered for US flag vessels (in the US of course) if certain
requirements are met. Generally licensing is required along with a certain
number of trips along the route, typically 25, sometimes a Federal Pilotage
Exam is required.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Good info - thanks.

Later,

Tom


Later,

Tom

otnmbrd wrote:

Not really. There are a good number of "reefers" and "break bulk" in
this size range still running about the world going to all the ports
those big box boats and ULCC's can't get near.

"Not really" what? Like I wrote, that 550 footer is probably in feeder
service, what used to be called "coasting" or "short sea trading." Ships
in the liner trades nearly all have crew sizes ranging from 11 to 30
with an average around 18.

MarAd has done several recent studies of manning levels and the results
are available on the net.

Unmanned enginerooms are common, though one man bridge watches are less
so, but growing in numbers.

A manned engine room is the exception these days except on older
vessels. Even our (US flag) steamships have gone from a 3-man watch to a
single engineer after 1700. The unlicensed engineer is a day worker.
Nearly all our motorboat enginerooms are unmanned after 1700 except for
maneuvering.

Rick

HLAviation wrote:
Look under the Port State Pilot requirements. Typically a vessel with
greater than XX draft or XXX tonnage will require a state licensed pilot
when entering and leaving port regardless of flag or use. These requirements
are sometimes wavered for US flag vessels (in the US of course) if certain
requirements are met. Generally licensing is required along with a certain
number of trips along the route, typically 25, sometimes a Federal Pilotage
Exam is required.

I don't know of any "State Pilot" organization that doesn't also require
that their members also hold "Federal Pilot" (USCG issued) licenses for
the port, though there may be..... would take some research.
Also, not all ports have "State Pilot" organizations, some work with
just "Federal Pilots" and frequently require pilotage of any vessel over
300 GT.

otn