Shen,
If you'll notice after about 70 feet most of these boats come with crew
quarters for the reasons you state. A boat that large involves a lot of work
that most people that can afford the boat can also afford someone else to do
the work. I'd guess 60 foot would be the upper range for a couple to
operate. Have you ever heard of an insurance company denying coverage due to
experience?
Paul


Say you hired a crew for this boat. How many would you have? Maybe a Capt,
Mate/cook? in other words, a couple.
There's nothing that would keep two people from handling a 60 or even 100 foot
boat competently as long as they know what they are doing and the boat is well
equipped.
Insurance companies and banks tend to want to protect their investments, and
set up rules which must be followed to obtain their insurance and loans.
Aside from them, there can be other regulatory hoops to jump through, so I
can't give any specific answer as to requirement which may be specific to all
sizes because there are just too many variables.
For instance, I know of 550' ships that are certified for a crew of six. Not
totally in line with the question, but it gives an idea of the possible
variables involved.

Shen

550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain, Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space is.

"Shen44" wrote in message
...
Shen,
If you'll notice after about 70 feet most of these boats come with
crew
quarters for the reasons you state. A boat that large involves a lot of
work
that most people that can afford the boat can also afford someone else to
do
the work. I'd guess 60 foot would be the upper range for a couple to
operate. Have you ever heard of an insurance company denying coverage due
to
experience?
Paul


Say you hired a crew for this boat. How many would you have? Maybe a Capt,
Mate/cook? in other words, a couple.
There's nothing that would keep two people from handling a 60 or even 100
foot
boat competently as long as they know what they are doing and the boat is
well
equipped.
Insurance companies and banks tend to want to protect their investments,
and
set up rules which must be followed to obtain their insurance and loans.
Aside from them, there can be other regulatory hoops to jump through, so I
can't give any specific answer as to requirement which may be specific to
all
sizes because there are just too many variables.
For instance, I know of 550' ships that are certified for a crew of six.
Not
totally in line with the question, but it gives an idea of the possible
variables involved.

Shen

Subject: Captain's License
From: "HLAviation"
Date: 07/22/2004 22:46 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net

550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain, Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space is.


G First off, you'll note I said "certified".
Normally they sail with a crew of 11.
Looking at your list of crew, I'd say you're a bit behind the times. For
instance, on any ship I sailed on, we didn't have OS's or oiler/wipers since
the early 80's.
The particular ships I'm talking about are not US flag and carry Capt, 1M, 2M,
3M, CE, 1rst E, 2nd eng, 3 AB's, cook.
Needless to say the vessel's are HIGHLY automated and were built as a test bed.
There are two people on the bridge during inbound/outbound trips ... Capt and
CE.
For longer runs there will be a Mate.

Shen

HLAviation wrote:
550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain, Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space is.

You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

The crew complement on one of Cosco's box boats is:

Master
Chief Mate
2nd Mate
Chief Engineer
2nd Engineer
Bosun
AB
Oilr/Motorman
OS (2 each)
Cook

Rick

And then the companies wonder why their ships get in such run down crap
condition. They took away my cook on a tug. The net effect was I went from
6hrs a day of maintenance and deck work getting done to 1.5 since my
afternoon AB was now on cooking duty. 3 months later the boss asked why the
boat looked like crap. I went off on him, and told him it was because he was
too damn cheap to keep a cook on the boat. If a crew of 6 cant keep a 132ft
tug in shape, how the hell are they supposed to do it with a 550' ship.
..
"Rick" wrote in message
hlink.net...
HLAviation wrote:
550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain,
Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3 O/Ss
and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space
is.

You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

The crew complement on one of Cosco's box boats is:

Master
Chief Mate
2nd Mate
Chief Engineer
2nd Engineer
Bosun
AB
Oilr/Motorman
OS (2 each)
Cook

Rick

HLAviation wrote:
And then the companies wonder why their ships get in such run down crap
condition. They took away my cook on a tug. The net effect was I went from
6hrs a day of maintenance and deck work getting done to 1.5 since my
afternoon AB was now on cooking duty. 3 months later the boss asked why the
boat looked like crap. I went off on him, and told him it was because he was
too damn cheap to keep a cook on the boat. If a crew of 6 cant keep a 132ft
tug in shape, how the hell are they supposed to do it with a 550' ship.

First off, you pay attention to the systems you install, materials used
for anything exposed to weather, and coatings.
Then, when you need work done that may be more than the crew can handle,
you hire "riding gangs" or "shore gangs" to come aboard and work under
the direction of the CM or CE and if the office bitches about appearance
you give them the "little pinkie" and tell them to hire more gangs.

otn

Rick wrote:
HLAviation wrote:

550', crew of 6?? Don't see how, that's the minimum Wheelhouse
Officer/Lookout complement. That vessel will also require a Captain,
Chief
Engineer, Second and Third Engineers, at least 3 A/B Unlimiteds, 3
O/Ss and
a couple Oilers/Wipers depending on how advanced the engineering space
is.


You've been working in the mud too long. Even the bigger containerships
now have only 10 or 11 crew. That 550 footer is a little coaster with an
unmanned engine room, one-man bridge, and a reduced manning certificate.

Not really. There are a good number of "reefers" and "break bulk" in
this size range still running about the world going to all the ports
those big box boats and ULCC's can't get near.
Unmanned enginerooms are common, though one man bridge watches are less
so, but growing in numbers.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:

Not really. There are a good number of "reefers" and "break bulk" in
this size range still running about the world going to all the ports
those big box boats and ULCC's can't get near.

"Not really" what? Like I wrote, that 550 footer is probably in feeder
service, what used to be called "coasting" or "short sea trading." Ships
in the liner trades nearly all have crew sizes ranging from 11 to 30
with an average around 18.

MarAd has done several recent studies of manning levels and the results
are available on the net.

Unmanned enginerooms are common, though one man bridge watches are less
so, but growing in numbers.

A manned engine room is the exception these days except on older
vessels. Even our (US flag) steamships have gone from a 3-man watch to a
single engineer after 1700. The unlicensed engineer is a day worker.
Nearly all our motorboat enginerooms are unmanned after 1700 except for
maneuvering.

Rick

Rick wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:

Not really. There are a good number of "reefers" and "break bulk" in
this size range still running about the world going to all the ports
those big box boats and ULCC's can't get near.


"Not really" what? Like I wrote, that 550 footer is probably in feeder
service, what used to be called "coasting" or "short sea trading." Ships
in the liner trades nearly all have crew sizes ranging from 11 to 30
with an average around 18.

The "Not really" referred to the fact that the ship mentioned (certified
for 6) or others of like size were probably feeders or coasters.
There are still a multitude of ships of this size, trading world wide.

No arguments here as to crew sizes..... they vary considerably.

otn

MarAd has done several recent studies of manning levels and the results
are available on the net.

Unmanned enginerooms are common, though one man bridge watches are
less so, but growing in numbers.


A manned engine room is the exception these days except on older
vessels. Even our (US flag) steamships have gone from a 3-man watch to a
single engineer after 1700. The unlicensed engineer is a day worker.
Nearly all our motorboat enginerooms are unmanned after 1700 except for
maneuvering.

Rick