Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:25:26 +1000, "K. Smith"
wrote:

Billgran wrote:
"Tom Hooper" wrote in message
...

Looking to power a 17 to 19 shallow V scow bow open boat, ply or alum

(I

know it's noisy). I guess that means 4 stroke, 25 to 35 hp. Not going

off

shore, just rivers and swamps. Want to cruise around with scaring away

the

scenery or losing friends. Normally canoe, and love quiet watercraft.
Thanks.
Tom




Tom,

You might want to check out the Evinrude E-TEC outboards in the 40-50hp
class. They are as quiet as a 4 stroke, there is no smoke orof mixing oil,
they do not need expensive oil changes and ridiculously priced oil filters.
They also do not use rubber timing belts that could bend valves when they
break, and are expensive to replace. There are no valves to burn, rust or
stick, and they do not need the cost of labor and a gasket for periodic
adjustments.

They come with a full 3 year warranty that does not lower coverage after 1
year as with some other brands.

The E-TEC does not need any dealer service for 3 years or 300 hours in
regular use. Some 4 strokes need oil changes every 6 months, plus again for
the 10 hr. check.

They also carry the original Ficht design fault forward & will fail
just as Ficht did & for the very same reasons.

Karen,

I don't know what your problem is with FICHT, but the last time I was
hanging around here, I saw the rants and was interested in your
opinion. However, it would appear that there is more to this than
just a good old rant, so allow me to present another side to your
apparent vitriol towards FICHT.

I have three of these doggies - a 1999 200 and two 2001 225s and nary
a problem - mechanical stuff, yes, but nothing that involved the FICHT
side of things. One was a busted fuel line which caused some
uncomfortable moments in the boat and one stator which failed and
honestly could have been my fault. In both cases the problems were
fixed quickly, quietly, no fuss, no muss and they didn't have to
because these are OMC engines, not Bombardier.

With respect to E-TEC, there's a lot of solid engineering time behind
E-TEC, there have been some important technical advances and from the
engines that I've run, mostly 50/70 hp on Polarkraft aluminum fishing
demo boats, I'm impressed. It would appear that the E-TEC produces
more shaft horsepower (meaning more horsepower at the prop), theya re
extremely quiet (more so than a four stroke in my opinion), quick
throttle response and exceptionally clean burning (according to the
specs - I don't own a spectrometer). I think Bill can produce the
actual figures, but just based on my own seat-of-the-pants former
engineer gut feeling, it beats the hell out of anything I've ridden in
including some of the bigger competing engines from Merc. I say that
because I was privileged to attend a dealer meeting (I am not
affliated with any dealer - I just happen to know a couple socially)
where some big engine comparison rides were offered - E-TEC is the
engine of the future.

I'm sure there will be problems along the way once these get into the
main consumer stream, but that's true of any engine. I've already
heard about some Verado quirks that will make your hair curl, but I
can't speak to them directly - this was strictly second hand info. So
far, I haven't heard much about the E-TECs other than my first hand
experience with them which was around 35 hours with a 40 and about 30
hours with a 70.

Just a counter argument - I'm happy with my FICHTs and when I get
ready for an engine change on the Contender, which may happen this
year, I will be using E-TECS strictly based on the performance of the
FICHTs that I have currently installed.

I am one happy, contented and very impressed FICHT owner, user and
abuser. :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653


In Karen Smith's mind, Tom, you're a liar and your experience is all a
fabrication.

I haven't seen A Verado yet...or heard anything about them. And I just
learned Yamaha has boosted its F225 to make an F250 available.



--
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush;
A vote for Bush is a vote for Apocalypse.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:25:26 +1000, "K. Smith"
wrote:


Billgran wrote:

"Tom Hooper" wrote in message
...


Looking to power a 17 to 19 shallow V scow bow open boat, ply or alum

(I


know it's noisy). I guess that means 4 stroke, 25 to 35 hp. Not going

off


shore, just rivers and swamps. Want to cruise around with scaring away

the


scenery or losing friends. Normally canoe, and love quiet watercraft.
Thanks.
Tom




Tom,

You might want to check out the Evinrude E-TEC outboards in the 40-50hp
class. They are as quiet as a 4 stroke, there is no smoke orof mixing oil,
they do not need expensive oil changes and ridiculously priced oil filters.
They also do not use rubber timing belts that could bend valves when they
break, and are expensive to replace. There are no valves to burn, rust or
stick, and they do not need the cost of labor and a gasket for periodic
adjustments.

They come with a full 3 year warranty that does not lower coverage after 1
year as with some other brands.

The E-TEC does not need any dealer service for 3 years or 300 hours in
regular use. Some 4 strokes need oil changes every 6 months, plus again for
the 10 hr. check.

They also carry the original Ficht design fault forward & will fail
just as Ficht did & for the very same reasons.


Karen,

I don't know what your problem is with FICHT, but the last time I was
hanging around here, I saw the rants and was interested in your
opinion. However, it would appear that there is more to this than
just a good old rant, so allow me to present another side to your
apparent vitriol towards FICHT.

Always pleased & thanks.


I have three of these doggies - a 1999 200 and two 2001 225s and nary
a problem - mechanical stuff, yes, but nothing that involved the FICHT
side of things. One was a busted fuel line which caused some
uncomfortable moments in the boat and one stator which failed and
honestly could have been my fault. In both cases the problems were
fixed quickly, quietly, no fuss, no muss and they didn't have to
because these are OMC engines, not Bombardier.

So I'm glad for you indeed you are amongst the majority of Ficht owners
who are happy. OMC itself claimed 4 outta 5 were OK so you are in that
80% of engines which have survived & again I'm glad for you.


With respect to E-TEC, there's a lot of solid engineering time behind
E-TEC, there have been some important technical advances

No there hasn't Tom, don't fall for BS, they have used higher melting
point alloy in the pistons (why?? is the real question), a different
entry for the oil injection, (again missing the real question) & the
rest is just more of the same, tinkering at the margins hoping against
hope that this time it might work, trouble is it can't.

and from the
engines that I've run, mostly 50/70 hp on Polarkraft aluminum fishing
demo boats, I'm impressed. It would appear that the E-TEC produces
more shaft horsepower (meaning more horsepower at the prop)

Which is even more scary, it's at higher specific outputs (HP/ltr) that
they're at even more risk of detonation damage, caused by the piston
heat buildup when they've been running at their lean mode.

, theya re
extremely quiet (more so than a four stroke in my opinion),

This is not a big issue & OMCs have always been quieter than others,
but so what?? I have 65-80HP diesel OBs that have very low exhaust noise
(NB I'm only talking exhaust) it's certainly not worth risking an engine
nor you boat's resale over.

quick
throttle response

Tom this is magazine dreamers stuff, 2 strokes are ..... well 2 strokes:-)

and exceptionally clean burning (according to the
specs - I don't own a spectrometer).

This has been their claims yet so what all the engines claim to meet
2006 so that's it as far as you the user are concerned, you have no clue
or even means of finding out.

I think Bill can produce the
actual figures, but just based on my own seat-of-the-pants former
engineer gut feeling, it beats the hell out of anything I've ridden in
including some of the bigger competing engines from Merc. I say that
because I was privileged to attend a dealer meeting (I am not
affliated with any dealer - I just happen to know a couple socially)
where some big engine comparison rides were offered - E-TEC is the
engine of the future.

E tec is Ficht DFI injection renamed probably because they realised the
public would never fall for the same old Ficht lies a 3rd time. It's a
dead end technology & was even before OMC got it from the Germans who
had been hawking it around the motor industry for years & the "real"
engine builders all politely said no thanks. Pity they didn't just tell
them that lean mixtures are dangerous to engine longevity.


I'm sure there will be problems along the way once these get into the
main consumer stream, but that's true of any engine.

Gee it seems if "ANY" of the others had a failure rate or 1 in 5 we
would have heard about it, the only others to come close were Opti &
surprise surprise they had the same 2 stroke lean mixture crap, as with
ficht the same hawked around for years & all the big engine makers just
laughed; as they should.

I've already
heard about some Verado quirks that will make your hair curl, but I
can't speak to them directly - this was strictly second hand info.

Yes yes we understand you OMC dealers never want to say too much but
nod nod wink wink:-) give it up!!!! you even tried to say Merc Optis
were "as bad" as Ficht at one stage, anything to make a sale hey??

So
far, I haven't heard much about the E-TECs other than my first hand
experience with them which was around 35 hours with a 40 and about 30
hours with a 70.

This "I know of one that didn't fail" testimonial; crap is just that
crap, it's the quiet owner who has his boating ruined by a design fault
& worse a known design fault that is the real issue, & yes they're in a
minority but if so what. Can you image if one in 5 GMs fsailed??? there
would be a huge govt mandated recall as I say there should be this time
with E tec, because this time you can't argue it's the EPA's or anyone
elses' fault.

Just a counter argument - I'm happy with my FICHTs and when I get
ready for an engine change on the Contender, which may happen this
year, I will be using E-TECS strictly based on the performance of the
FICHTs that I have currently installed.

From your "friend" the E-tec dealer??? Come on Tom even if your engines
haven't failed your boat resale is shot, so this is some expensive
friend you have, unless it's your imaginary marketing friend???

I am one happy, contented and very impressed FICHT owner, user and
abuser. :)

Later,

Don't leave it too late, they don't go for long:-)

K


Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:35:03 +1000, "K. Smith"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:25:26 +1000, "K. Smith"
wrote:


Billgran wrote:

"Tom Hooper" wrote in message
...


Looking to power a 17 to 19 shallow V scow bow open boat, ply or alum

~~ snippity do da ~~

E tec is Ficht DFI injection renamed probably because they realised the
public would never fall for the same old Ficht lies a 3rd time. It's a
dead end technology & was even before OMC got it from the Germans who
had been hawking it around the motor industry for years & the "real"
engine builders all politely said no thanks. Pity they didn't just tell
them that lean mixtures are dangerous to engine longevity.

Well, here's the thing of it - the '99 I have has over 600 hours on it
and the twin 225s have about 800 - both relatively hard use - seems to
work for me and I'm just some schumck with a couple of boats.

I'm sure there will be problems along the way once these get into the
main consumer stream, but that's true of any engine.

Gee it seems if "ANY" of the others had a failure rate or 1 in 5 we
would have heard about it, the only others to come close were Opti &
surprise surprise they had the same 2 stroke lean mixture crap, as with
ficht the same hawked around for years & all the big engine makers just
laughed; as they should.

You mentioned that the last time and I've been looking around - I
can't seem to find this 1 in 5 failure rate documented anywhere. Can
you provide me a reference to this that I can look at? I know that
the failure rate for the midrange (100-150) engines was high, but 1 in
5? I'm not sure of that.

I've already
heard about some Verado quirks that will make your hair curl, but I
can't speak to them directly - this was strictly second hand info.

Yes yes we understand you OMC dealers never want to say too much but
nod nod wink wink:-) give it up!!!! you even tried to say Merc Optis
were "as bad" as Ficht at one stage, anything to make a sale hey??

Um....I'm not a OMC or Bombardier dealer. In fact, I don't know any
Bombarbier "dealers" per se other than the local guy who handles
Yamaha/Mercury and is a Bombardier servicing dealer. He services my
engines. The other guy I know sells Ferritti Group yachts like
Bertrams and such and sells packaged inflatables that may or may not
have Bombardier engine on them.

I'm just a user and I'm trying to understand this apparent problem you
have with FICHT - that's it.

So
far, I haven't heard much about the E-TECs other than my first hand
experience with them which was around 35 hours with a 40 and about 30
hours with a 70.

This "I know of one that didn't fail" testimonial; crap is just that
crap, it's the quiet owner who has his boating ruined by a design fault
& worse a known design fault that is the real issue, & yes they're in a
minority but if so what. Can you image if one in 5 GMs fsailed??? there
would be a huge govt mandated recall as I say there should be this time
with E tec, because this time you can't argue it's the EPA's or anyone
elses' fault.

Show me - give me a reference about this one-in-five fail rate. Even
with the mid-range engine problems they had, I don't believe it was 1
in 5.

Just a counter argument - I'm happy with my FICHTs and when I get
ready for an engine change on the Contender, which may happen this
year, I will be using E-TECS strictly based on the performance of the
FICHTs that I have currently installed.

From your "friend" the E-tec dealer??? Come on Tom even if your engines
haven't failed your boat resale is shot, so this is some expensive
friend you have, unless it's your imaginary marketing friend???

Excuse me - you know nothing about me, my life, my friends, social or
business - just as I don't know anything about you other than what you
put here on this screen. You can't accuse me of anything other than
defending my choice of power.

I am one happy, contented and very impressed FICHT owner, user and
abuser. :)

Don't leave it too late, they don't go for long:-)

600+ on the '99 200 and just under 800 on the '01 225 twins and still
going strong.

I have the 200C Ranger up for sale and have a current offer, with a
deposit and everything, just under what I originally paid for it and
minus the electronics package I put on it. I'm just waiting for my
new 2300 Bay Ranger to be delivered in September. And that boat is
going to have a FICHT on it - 225 in fact.

As to the Contender, I wouldn't sell it on a bet because I love the
boat. However, I have it looked over by a public adjuster with marine
experience every year for total replacement cost and you know what?
If the boat sank tomorrow, it's "true" value is 12% below what I paid
for it - not bad for a two year old boat that is used on a regular
basis. And that's without the electronics and equipment package which
is insured on a seperate policy.

So much for the diiminished resale argument.

However, to give you some outs, this is only my experience with the
FICHT. I have talked to other FICHT owners and they seem content with
their engines. Small sample to be sure, but these are folks in my
circle who are fairly knowledgable with a lot of experience with
outboards.

If you have reference to actual facts - as in actual numbers, types of
failures, recalls, etc - I would appreciate seeing them.

Always open to seeing and evaluating all the evidence.

Later,

Tom