I'll define right for you as the original carb. Of course you can go to a
4BBL but you'll use more fuel at higher RPMs and there may be installation
issues.

The electric choke *might* be engaged by pushing in the ignition key.

Last but not least, yes, the website is http://www.championparts.net

Installing a carb is no big deal. If I can do it, anyone can!


In article , Shawn Willden
wrote:

Bob D. wrote:

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange.

Question: Which carb were you thinking was right for me? It looks like the
one listed for a 5.0L is a 2BBL (MC60). Is it not possible to get a 4BBL
for this engine? It looks like most of the 4BBL carbs listed are remote
choke, not electric choke; am I right in assuming that "remote choke" means
some sort of mechanical connection, rather than electrical? I also notice
that there's no choke switch/lever on my control console, is that because
the electric choke is managed automatically somehow?

Sorry for the flood of questions... :-)

Shawn.

Fred is right, but he's charging you an arm and a leg.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
Shawn,

I bout a project boat two years ago which did not have a carb. I found a
place, Champion Parts, which sells remanufactured alternators, starters,
carbs and water pumps. I paid $230 without exchange for a rochester 4bbl
with remote choke, and they delivered immediately as promised!

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange. Do it yourself, have the proper setup and
save about $600-$800 in the process!

The URL:

http://www.chanpionparts.net

In article ,
says...
I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.

The boat in question is a 1990 Bayliner 20' inboard/outboard, with a 5.0L V8
Mercruiser engine. It's obviously a pleasure boat for lakes, not a
seagoing vessel. When I bought it, the previous owner told me that he had
replaced the stock Rochester 2-barrel carburetor with a Holley 4-barrel,
for increased power. That seemed like a nice thing, right?

When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.

Fred's recommendation was this: replace the automotive carb with a
remanufactured Rochester 4BBL with an electric choke (the original 2BBL had
an electric choke, so the lead is there); put a proper spark arestor on it;
replace all of the hoses with the proper types and connect them properly;
and finally get rid of all the blasted vacuum tubes. He said he could do
it for between $800 and $1000, and he says that until it's done, he would
not consider the boat safe.

Good advice from Chuck.

My bet is if you shop around either your own area or the net you'll find
a replacement carb for less than Fred quotes and perhaps you'll be able
to sell the automotive unit you've got. Spark arrestors can be bought
used and there's no difference.

That'd make you feel a little better about the surprise.

Then you can either do the work yourself or have Fred do it.

jps

"Shawn Willden" wrote

I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over.

Don't feel like the "Lone Ranger", Shawn. I did the same thing. Hope it
makes you feel better knowing you are not alone. :-/

"Shawn Willden" wrote in message
...
I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.


When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that
there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that
are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has
been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a
clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.


Now, Fred seems like a pretty straight-up guy, but he also wants to sell
me
some stuff, so I'm mildly skeptical. On the other hand, I do *not* want
to
take my family out in a boat that is likely to blow up, and it's clear
even
to me that there are real problems. The fuel line into the carb, for
example; if that popped loose and started spraying fuel into the engine
compartment, the result could be rather spectacular.

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable? Even if it's safe, are
there other disadvantages? Would it be adequate to merely replace the
hoses with proper ones and install them correctly?



Count your blessings that you found Fred, who knows the Federal laws
concerning inboard gas engines. Too many so called mechanics and DIY's do
not. Because gasoline is so explosive in an enclosed environment such as a
bilge and engine compartement, there are a bunch of laws concerning spark
protection, fuel leakage, and the correct installation procedures. The
statutes are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Part 183
which deals with recreational boats. You need to have Coast Guard approved
parts to make the boat legal to operate. Starters, alternators, ignition
systems, carbs, fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc. are all subject to fire and
spark resistance tests. You owe a debt of graditude to Fred. He possibly
saved or life, the life of your loved ones, and any innocent bystanders.

Trust me, burning boats and charred bodies are not pretty.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Billgran wrote:

Count your blessings that you found Fred, who knows the Federal laws
concerning inboard gas engines.

I do. Beyond that, even, I count my blessings that the through-transom
shift cable was corroded. If I hadn't been looking into that problem, I
never would have noticed the missing flame arrestor (since there was a
shiny plastic cover over the carb), and taken the boat in for Fred to look
at.

The
statutes are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Part 183
which deals with recreational boats. You need to have Coast Guard approved
parts to make the boat legal to operate.

Thanks for the information. Do those Federal Regulations apply on inland
lakes, or only on ocean-going vessels? I've been looking at the Utah state
statutes.

Shawn.

"Shawn Willden" wrote in message
...


Thanks for the information. Do those Federal Regulations apply on inland
lakes, or only on ocean-going vessels? I've been looking at the Utah
state
statutes.

Shawn.


Those particular Federal Laws apply to ALL recreational boats used in the US
that have an enclosed gasoline engine, commercial boats have even tougher
regulations.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Billgran wrote:

Those particular Federal Laws apply to ALL recreational boats used in the
US that have an enclosed gasoline engine, commercial boats have even
tougher regulations.

Very useful information. Thanks again.

Shawn.

I keep a small web page to show people a good reason not to use
non-marine and coastguard-approved parts on your boat.

Here's a link:

http://www.geocities.com/barrey_jewall/fire_supra.html


I don't know the actual story behind the destruction pictured there,
but it's pretty similar to all of the other stuff I've both seen and
heard about (but don't have actual pictures of).

- Barrey

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:18:15 GMT, "Billgran"
wrote:


Count your blessings that you found Fred, who knows the Federal laws
concerning inboard gas engines. Too many so called mechanics and DIY's do
not. Because gasoline is so explosive in an enclosed environment such as a
bilge and engine compartement, there are a bunch of laws concerning spark
protection, fuel leakage, and the correct installation procedures. The
statutes are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Part 183
which deals with recreational boats. You need to have Coast Guard approved
parts to make the boat legal to operate. Starters, alternators, ignition
systems, carbs, fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc. are all subject to fire and
spark resistance tests. You owe a debt of graditude to Fred. He possibly
saved or life, the life of your loved ones, and any innocent bystanders.

Trust me, burning boats and charred bodies are not pretty.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Shawn Willden wrote in message ...
I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.

The boat in question is a 1990 Bayliner 20' inboard/outboard, with a 5.0L V8
Mercruiser engine. It's obviously a pleasure boat for lakes, not a
seagoing vessel. When I bought it, the previous owner told me that he had
replaced the stock Rochester 2-barrel carburetor with a Holley 4-barrel,
for increased power. That seemed like a nice thing, right?

When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.

Fred's recommendation was this: replace the automotive carb with a
remanufactured Rochester 4BBL with an electric choke (the original 2BBL had
an electric choke, so the lead is there); put a proper spark arestor on it;
replace all of the hoses with the proper types and connect them properly;
and finally get rid of all the blasted vacuum tubes. He said he could do
it for between $800 and $1000, and he says that until it's done, he would
not consider the boat safe.

Now, Fred seems like a pretty straight-up guy, but he also wants to sell me
some stuff, so I'm mildly skeptical. On the other hand, I do *not* want to
take my family out in a boat that is likely to blow up, and it's clear even
to me that there are real problems. The fuel line into the carb, for
example; if that popped loose and started spraying fuel into the engine
compartment, the result could be rather spectacular.

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable? Even if it's safe, are
there other disadvantages? Would it be adequate to merely replace the
hoses with proper ones and install them correctly? Are Fred's prices
reasonable? He's quoting $400-$500 for a remanufactured Rochester 4BBL,
about $100 for the spark arrestor, and the remaining $300-$500 is for hoses
and labor.

Thanks for your input/flames/guffaws (at my foolishness),

Shawn.

Shawn, when all is said and done you might have a real good case
against the previous owner in small claims court. It's one thing to
sell you a boat with an engine that turns out to be bad, but it's a
whole differant ball game when it comes to knowingly selling a boat
that has been modified in such a way that it is unsafe. I would keep
all records on the cost to fix this, take lots of photo's and get
statements from the mechanic. If you know a lawyer, I would talk to
him as well. You may not be on the hook at all on this one.