What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied.
Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation
carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical
experience to back up your claims.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
we have a start, don't we?

actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It
is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred
bucks, new.


guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact

that

"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the

word

"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going .....

otn

over the knee, it has to do with the the fact that navigating with DR as your
primary nav system is not necessary at all, given the low price of gps's today.
In addition, there is zero point zero need to nav at all in fog with rocks
nearby using DR.

over the knee, you need to get out on the water some time see what this stuff
is all about.

What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied.
Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation
carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical
experience to back up your claims.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
we have a start, don't we?

actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said.
It
is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a
hundred
bucks, new.


guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact

that

"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the

word

"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going
.....

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee, it has to do with the the fact that navigating with DR as your
primary nav system is not necessary at all, given the low price of gps's today.
In addition, there is zero point zero need to nav at all in fog with rocks
nearby using DR.

over the knee, you need to get out on the water some time see what this stuff
is all about.

BG I probably spend more time on the water playing with/using more
types of navigational tools, in one week during any month of the year,
than you do in an entire year...... the difference is, that I've learned
to use all these "tools", individually and as groups working together
and to play off on the shortcomings of each.
GPS and DGPS are probably the best tools, to date, that a navigator has
to use, but to be used safely you need to know what the information is,
that you are getting and what the possible problems are with using that
information, straight from your receiver.
We can all tell stories of the guy who gets a GPS, inputs a number of
waypoints to get from point A to B, sets sail and proceeds to run
himself aground on some rocks, etc..
To use GPS safely, you need to understand and be able to use not only
*your* definition of DR, but the definition of others.
You need to be able to plot, to understand set and drift, etc. .... all
the things you learned with DR, to monitor what the GPS is showing and
what you need to do to keep yourself in good water.
People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for
centuries, be it in open waters or near the rocks and sadly, some have
failed to make it.
People are using GPS to get from A to B safely, but sadly some still
fail to make it, though thankfully, fewer now than before. Those that
fail, have generally been those who think that all they need to know is
the information their GPS gives them.
Simply stated, the more you know and can fall back on when your "gadget"
fails (and it will) the safer you will be.
As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try
and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as
you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background,
etc.,etc., to do so.
It's a big world out there jax. Not everyone has easy access to GPS.

otn

I probably spend more time on the water playing with/using more
types of navigational tools, in one week during any month of the year,
than you do in an entire year......

oh? then how come you confuse DR with pilotage, even as you claim DR is
precise?

People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for
centuries,

no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in the
final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest
knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to age
(about 20 years usage)

ubject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 08/07/2004 07:21 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for
centuries,

no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in the
final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest
knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to age
(about 20 years usage)


Soooo, what your saying is that 75% of sailing vessels had full careers. The
other 25% may have made only one voyage or thousands of voyages before sinking
or grounding prior to their 20 year demise.
Depending on how you manipulate the statistics, we can probably make this sound
bad OR good.

Shen

shen, think of it this way. what would *you* do IF 25% of ALL commercial
aircraft crashed before making it 20 years?

People have used basic "DR" to get from point A to B safely for
centuries,

no they have not used it "safely". a full 25% of ALL commercial ships in
the
final 50 years of sail powered shipping -- presumably the years of greatest
knowledge and skills in DR) sank before being taken out of service due to
age
(about 20 years usage)


Soooo, what your saying is that 75% of sailing vessels had full careers. The
other 25% may have made only one voyage or thousands of voyages before
sinking
or grounding prior to their 20 year demise.
Depending on how you manipulate the statistics, we can probably make this
sound
bad OR good.

Shen

Subject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 08/07/2004 11:03 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

shen, think of it this way. what would *you* do IF 25% of ALL commercial
aircraft crashed before making it 20 years?


If it was back in the teens or twenties, I'd probably create the FAA.
How'd yer planes life span look back then?

Shen

As for "DR" .... define it and use it any way you want, but don't try
and tell me *how* it should be defined and/or used or can be used, as
you don't have the training, experience, knowledge, background,
etc.,etc., to do so.

no master mariner -- as you proclaim yourself to be -- confuses DR with
pilotage. It is the same as claiming to be a 1,000,000 mile trucker and
confuse a two-speed axel with an overdrive transmission.

The point made by the original poster was that if you can identify
three points you still don't necessarily know your true position.

REF FER ENCE points, gene. for the krimminy sakes, gene. ya gotta have
REFERENCE points. And you no gots dem when you only gots speed through the
water and a compass and a timepiece.

In the discussion of the efficacy of ded reckoning

efficacy (sic) is the wrong word. effectiveness is the right word, and DR is
effective as no more than a guess of deteriorating accuracry as time goes on.

if I am not lost, then I am not lost?

but you ARE lost if you don't have **reference** points to **refer** to,