On 29 Jun 2004 15:53:49 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
For me, it's easier to "think through" the process (and I run single screws
more easily and instinctively than twins) when the controls for each engine are
together and separated from those of the other engine.

============================================

I think most experienced twin engine guys would disagree with that
thinking. The vast majority of low speed maneuvering is done with
only the shifters and it becomes very intuitive to have them together,
usually to the left of the helm although Hatteras is to the right. If
shifter and throttle were together it would be very easy to nail the
throttle by mistake and end up with a moving 50,000 pound problem on
your hands.

I think most experienced twin engine guys would disagree with that
thinking. The vast majority of low speed maneuvering is done with
only the shifters

I agree with that.

and it becomes very intuitive to have them together,
usually to the left of the helm although Hatteras is to the right.

Anything can become intuitive.

A bizarre set-up I once encountered was rigged with the throttle and shifter
levers mounted on horizontal surface, above the rim of a vertical "destroyer"
wheel.

The starboard module had the black shifter lever outboard, and the red
throttle lever inboard. The port module had the throttle lever inboard, and the
shifter lever outboard. This placed the shifter levers at the opposite edges of
the array, making the "driving a bulldozer" crutch seem a bit more realistic.
:-) It was a little unusual, but the boat owner swore by at.

If
shifter and throttle were together it would be very easy to nail the
throttle by mistake and end up with a moving 50,000 pound problem on
your hands.

In the 10th of a second it would take to realize such a mistake (been there,
done that) that 50,000 pound boat isn't going to move very far.

Are there any boats set up as you describe?

Yes.

On 6/29/2004 8:05 PM, Gould 0738 wrote:

Are there any boats set up as you describe?


Yes.

Most I've seen are, but then I'm more familiar with single screws and
single O/B runabouts.

For twins, I'm used to seeing (from left to right, T=Throttle, G=Gear
shifter):

LT LG | RG RT


Maybe it's a setup that's popular only in the PNW?



--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...
On 6/29/2004 8:05 PM, Gould 0738 wrote:
For twins, I'm used to seeing (from left to right, T=Throttle, G=Gear
shifter):

LT LG | RG RT


On the boat I recently had, a 36' Carver, the controls were set up with the
gear shift levers on the left of the helm, and the throttles on the right.
Each pair of handles were "L" shaped with the angle pointing in, which made
it easy to grab both handles with one hand and move them together.

To use your notation (P=port. S= starboard, T= throttle, G= gear shift)

PG SG (steering wheel) PT ST


With the setup that you describe above, where the throttles are on the
outside of the gear shift, I would think that it would either take two hands
to move the throttles together or you would have to do it in two step, which
would make steering a bit difficult.

Rod

On 7/1/2004 2:43 PM, Rod McInnis wrote:

"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...

On 6/29/2004 8:05 PM, Gould 0738 wrote:

For twins, I'm used to seeing (from left to right, T=Throttle, G=Gear

shifter):

LT LG | RG RT



On the boat I recently had, a 36' Carver, the controls were set up with the
gear shift levers on the left of the helm, and the throttles on the right.
Each pair of handles were "L" shaped with the angle pointing in, which made
it easy to grab both handles with one hand and move them together.

To use your notation (P=port. S= starboard, T= throttle, G= gear shift)

D'oh! I'm just getting back into summer nautical mode - I should have
thought of using the proper terminology too...

PG SG (steering wheel) PT ST


With the setup that you describe above, where the throttles are on the
outside of the gear shift, I would think that it would either take two hands
to move the throttles together or you would have to do it in two step, which
would make steering a bit difficult.

Rod

I think the theory behind having the gear shifts together is that you
can easily maneuver at slow speeds with one hand using those levers
alone. I've seen some twins perform some amazing maneuvers, something
I'd never want to try with a single screw. Anyway, I think I like your
example better since the throttles are together as well as the gears.

Ah, well; My preference is still outboard style with a single lever for
everything.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

gould0738 says: "In the 10th of a second it would take to realize such a
mistake (been there, done that) that 50,000 pound boat isn't going to move very
far.

I say, with the tide going out (in) and the wind going sideways (left ways, no,
right ways), lots of times the boat can get a fair amount of way on while you
try and sort it out.
And a "50,000 lb" boat can do a lot of damage during that time! 1/10 sec?
Hmmmmm you have better reflexes then most..
Mike

I say, with the tide going out (in) and the wind going sideways (left ways,
no,
right ways), lots of times the boat can get a fair amount of way on while you
try and sort it out.

If there is substantial wind and/or current you wil be using the throttles as
well as the gears. 10th of a second? Long before you push the throttle as far
as it would take to make a gear change, you will indeed notice a pronounced
change in RPM. The error will be immediately apparent. There shouldn't be any
"trying to sort out" involved. If you screw up in the middle of a landing, you
have to know how what you did affected things and have a plan to counter or
recover. It's way too late to sort anything out. You either have a workable
program to recover or you abort and start over.

Situational awareness. Don't leave home without it.

Gould 0738 wrote:
I say, with the tide going out (in) and the wind going sideways (left ways,
no,
right ways), lots of times the boat can get a fair amount of way on while you
try and sort it out.


If there is substantial wind and/or current you wil be using the throttles as
well as the gears. 10th of a second? Long before you push the throttle as far
as it would take to make a gear change, you will indeed notice a pronounced
change in RPM. The error will be immediately apparent. There shouldn't be any
"trying to sort out" involved. If you screw up in the middle of a landing, you
have to know how what you did affected things and have a plan to counter or
recover. It's way too late to sort anything out. You either have a workable
program to recover or you abort and start over.

Situational awareness. Don't leave home without it.

Personally, I prefer single lever controls. On most that I'm used to,
there will be no RPM increase until after you are in gear, but this
varies between installations on different boats.
I've always worked under the belief that except in extreme conditions,
that if I have to use anything more than gears and rudder(s) (single or
multi screw), then I've screwed up the approach.
For all intents, I'd agree fully with the above .... you need to be 4-5
steps ahead of the boat, ready to alter your thinking because it's
extremely rare that you will ever dock exactly the same way at the same
dock with the same boat ... twice...... and never be afraid to go
around and do it again.

otn