Starbuck wrote:

Doug,

If we raised everyone salary 25%, the net income gain in spending power
would be 0%.

???

You should try and grasp the concept of "marginal rates of change."

If everybody's salary was raised 25% in an instant, and prices remained
constant *at that same instant* then there would very very definitely an
increase in "spending power." It would taper off as prices rose, but
probably would take a while to reach 0.0 if indeed it really did
(increased spending tends to increase investment in production which
tends to increase technology etc etc).

It's not quite the Red Queen's Race, but it's close.

I can see you're another economist wanna-be... did you get your
tremendous expertise from the same "Everything You Need To Know About
Economics In One Easy Lesson" website as that last joker?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Starbuck wrote:

Doug,

If we raised everyone salary 25%, the net income gain in spending power
would be 0%.

???

You should try and grasp the concept of "marginal rates of change."

If everybody's salary was raised 25% in an instant, and prices remained
constant *at that same instant* then there would very very definitely an
increase in "spending power." It would taper off as prices rose, but
probably would take a while to reach 0.0 if indeed it really did
(increased spending tends to increase investment in production which tends
to increase technology etc etc).

It's not quite the Red Queen's Race, but it's close.

I can see you're another economist wanna-be... did you get your tremendous
expertise from the same "Everything You Need To Know About Economics In
One Easy Lesson" website as that last joker?

DSK


A 25% raise in all salaries would be reflected in prices in about 10 days.
And the net gain would be a minus %. Bracket creep on tax charts. And how
are you going to raise salaries, without raising prices concurrently?

Bill McKee wrote:
A 25% raise in all salaries would be reflected in prices in about 10 days.

Really? Across the board? Evenly distributed in all consumer categories,
or will staples/necissities go up faster?


And the net gain would be a minus %.

If that were true, then the average standard of living would always tend
to decrease. I guess the fact that we live in air-conditioned houses,
not caves, hasn't been noticed by you?


... Bracket creep on tax charts.

Are you under the impression that being nudged into the next higher tax
bracket means that you now have less money?

... And how
are you going to raise salaries, without raising prices concurrently?


The same way President Bush raises expenditures... astronomically...
without raising revenue.

DSK

Doug,
The marketplace responds fairly quickly to inflationary pressure, just ask
Germans who lived during the 40's how quickly the marketplace reacts to an
increase in money supply without an increase in productivity.

Are you suggesting it is ok to create rampant inflation in an effort to try
to give the appearance of helping the less fortunate? After all, the old on
fixed income have lived a good life, it is more important that we give the
appearance of helping the poor.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Starbuck wrote:

Doug,

If we raised everyone salary 25%, the net income gain in spending power
would be 0%.

???

You should try and grasp the concept of "marginal rates of change."

If everybody's salary was raised 25% in an instant, and prices remained
constant *at that same instant* then there would very very definitely an
increase in "spending power." It would taper off as prices rose, but
probably would take a while to reach 0.0 if indeed it really did
(increased spending tends to increase investment in production which tends
to increase technology etc etc).

It's not quite the Red Queen's Race, but it's close.

I can see you're another economist wanna-be... did you get your tremendous
expertise from the same "Everything You Need To Know About Economics In
One Easy Lesson" website as that last joker?

DSK

Starbuck wrote:

Doug,
The marketplace responds fairly quickly to inflationary pressure

Uh huh.
Do you know the economics textbook definition of "long term"?

Look it up.

... just ask
Germans who lived during the 40's how quickly the marketplace reacts to an
increase in money supply without an increase in productivity.

And how quickly is that?
When a crisis that is ten years in the making creates an "overnight
sensation" of exponential inflation, does it take an idiot to ignore the
10 year crisis and focus on the overnight? Or merely someone who is
poorly educated who also wants to promote a fundamentally dishonest agenda?



Are you suggesting it is ok to create rampant inflation in an effort to try
to give the appearance of helping the less fortunate?

Why, no. Are you suggesting that I suggested that?

I was merely pointing out that your ideas about economics are wrong.


... After all, the old on
fixed income have lived a good life

Is that why you & the Bush/Cheney Administration feel it's OK to pillage
Social Security and hand over the loot to Wall St?


... it is more important that we give the
appearance of helping the poor.


instead of "giving the appearance" how about actually helping them?

Or in the words of the immortal B.B. King (no relation) 'Help the
poor... Lord, help the poor... yes, help the poor... won't you help poor
me.'

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
A 25% raise in all salaries would be reflected in prices in about 10
days.

Really? Across the board? Evenly distributed in all consumer categories,
or will staples/necissities go up faster?


And the net gain would be a minus %.

If that were true, then the average standard of living would always tend
to decrease. I guess the fact that we live in air-conditioned houses, not
caves, hasn't been noticed by you?


Productivity has gone up with wages. You are only going to raise wages.
Therefore all prices have to follow directly or greater.


... Bracket creep on tax charts.

Are you under the impression that being nudged into the next higher tax
bracket means that you now have less money?


If you raise all wages 25% and the prices will have to raise at least 25% to
cover the extra costs, yes bracket creep will leave you with less spendable
money. Example (ignore real tax rates). You make $100 / week. You get the
25% raise to $125 / week But prices have gone up 25% also. At $100/ week
you paid 20% of your money in income taxes. Leaving you with $80. With a
25% increase in income your tax bracket is now 22%. Or $27.50 Leaving you
with $97.50 or a 21% increase, while prices will raise 25%.

... And how are you going to raise salaries, without raising prices
concurrently?

The same way President Bush raises expenditures... astronomically...
without raising revenue.

DSK


And you go into bigger debt. Just like this Congress and the President are
doing. Include the Congress, as they are the only ones to allocate money to
spend. And that includes the Democrats and the Republicans. Those same D's
and R's who passed a transportation bill with $27 billion, that is with a
capitol "B", load of pork in it. Yes it was voted for by the Boxer's,
Pelosi's, Feinstein's, Kennedy's, Kerry's, etc. of the Congress as well as
the Republicans.

Doug,
If you increased the money supply by 25% without any increase in
productivity, you could expect inflation to be 25% in less than 2 years, it
would probably be 25% in less than 12 months, but you could expect to see
prices rising the same month the money supply was increased. You will have
25% more dollars chasing the exact same amount of production, and the prices
will rise as soon as the marketplace realizes it. Even if this information
was never published in the news. Those who buy commodity futures will bid
up the futures almost immediately, (they review all the government data
concerning M1 and M2 money supply) this will increase the cost of the raw
materials. This will very quickly raise the cost of finished goods, since
most manufacturers and many retail businesses use LIFO accounting practice.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Starbuck wrote:

Doug,
The marketplace responds fairly quickly to inflationary pressure

Uh huh.
Do you know the economics textbook definition of "long term"?

Look it up.

... just ask Germans who lived during the 40's how quickly the
marketplace reacts to an increase in money supply without an increase in
productivity.

And how quickly is that?
When a crisis that is ten years in the making creates an "overnight
sensation" of exponential inflation, does it take an idiot to ignore the
10 year crisis and focus on the overnight? Or merely someone who is poorly
educated who also wants to promote a fundamentally dishonest agenda?



Are you suggesting it is ok to create rampant inflation in an effort to
try to give the appearance of helping the less fortunate?

Why, no. Are you suggesting that I suggested that?

I was merely pointing out that your ideas about economics are wrong.


... After all, the old on fixed income have lived a good life

Is that why you & the Bush/Cheney Administration feel it's OK to pillage
Social Security and hand over the loot to Wall St?


... it is more important that we give the appearance of helping the poor.


instead of "giving the appearance" how about actually helping them?

Or in the words of the immortal B.B. King (no relation) 'Help the poor...
Lord, help the poor... yes, help the poor... won't you help poor me.'

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
And how quickly is that?
When a crisis that is ten years in the making creates an "overnight
sensation" of exponential inflation, does it take an idiot to ignore the
10 year crisis and focus on the overnight? Or merely someone who is poorly
educated who also wants to promote a fundamentally dishonest agenda?

Doug, You might be poorly educated, but I don't think you are promoting a
fundamentally dishonest agenda, I just think you are poorly educated.
Remember, the definition of inflation is when more dollars are chasing the
same amount of goods and servcies. If you do not increase productivity at
the exact same amount you increase the money supply, you will ALWAYS have
inflation.

"Starbuck" wrote in message
...
Doug,
The marketplace responds fairly quickly to inflationary pressure, just ask
Germans who lived during the 40's how quickly the marketplace reacts to an
increase in money supply without an increase in productivity.

Are you suggesting it is ok to create rampant inflation in an effort to
try
to give the appearance of helping the less fortunate? After all, the old
on
fixed income have lived a good life, it is more important that we give the
appearance of helping the poor.

What is scary is that there are people like him who think that prices would
stay the safe when wages increase.



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Starbuck wrote:

Doug,

If we raised everyone salary 25%, the net income gain in spending power
would be 0%.

???

You should try and grasp the concept of "marginal rates of change."

If everybody's salary was raised 25% in an instant, and prices remained
constant *at that same instant* then there would very very definitely an
increase in "spending power." It would taper off as prices rose, but
probably would take a while to reach 0.0 if indeed it really did
(increased spending tends to increase investment in production which
tends
to increase technology etc etc).

It's not quite the Red Queen's Race, but it's close.

I can see you're another economist wanna-be... did you get your
tremendous
expertise from the same "Everything You Need To Know About Economics In
One Easy Lesson" website as that last joker?

DSK

I really thought many people wouldn't realize the correlation between
production, money supply and inflation, but I would have expected any
college graduate to understand it when it was discussed.

I guess I was wrong.

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Starbuck" wrote in message
...
Doug,
The marketplace responds fairly quickly to inflationary pressure, just
ask
Germans who lived during the 40's how quickly the marketplace reacts to
an
increase in money supply without an increase in productivity.

Are you suggesting it is ok to create rampant inflation in an effort to
try
to give the appearance of helping the less fortunate? After all, the old
on
fixed income have lived a good life, it is more important that we give
the
appearance of helping the poor.

What is scary is that there are people like him who think that prices
would
stay the safe when wages increase.



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Starbuck wrote:

Doug,

If we raised everyone salary 25%, the net income gain in spending
power
would be 0%.

???

You should try and grasp the concept of "marginal rates of change."

If everybody's salary was raised 25% in an instant, and prices remained
constant *at that same instant* then there would very very definitely
an
increase in "spending power." It would taper off as prices rose, but
probably would take a while to reach 0.0 if indeed it really did
(increased spending tends to increase investment in production which
tends
to increase technology etc etc).

It's not quite the Red Queen's Race, but it's close.

I can see you're another economist wanna-be... did you get your
tremendous
expertise from the same "Everything You Need To Know About Economics In
One Easy Lesson" website as that last joker?

DSK