"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I can empathize with Mr. ex-Navy. There's no reasoning with people like
Ms.
Kneisler because they lack logic and reason. It's like trying to debate
with a 2 year old. However, you don't get angry with the two year old,
because he/she doesn't know any better. A grown woman like Ms.
Kneisler
should know better...and that's where the frustration sets in.

She probably does, but it is all politics......11,000 deaths, as she
cites,
would equal between 88 and 158 days of deaths of innocents that Hussein
averaged. (depnding on whois doing the count) In reality, the US, in the
last year, has saved up to 35,000 in the last year

much snipage

Hmmm,

I think your numbers may not tell the whole story.

How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal embargo?

Mark Browne

Mark Browne wrote:
"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

I can empathize with Mr. ex-Navy. There's no reasoning with people like

Ms.

Kneisler because they lack logic and reason. It's like trying to debate
with a 2 year old. However, you don't get angry with the two year old,
because he/she doesn't know any better. A grown woman like Ms.

Kneisler

should know better...and that's where the frustration sets in.

She probably does, but it is all politics......11,000 deaths, as she

cites,

would equal between 88 and 158 days of deaths of innocents that Hussein
averaged. (depnding on whois doing the count) In reality, the US, in the
last year, has saved up to 35,000 in the last year


much snipage

Hmmm,

I think your numbers may not tell the whole story.

How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal embargo?

Mark Browne



Shhhh...don't bring up stuff like that...it confuses them.

Bert Robbins wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Jeff Rigby wrote:


Harry, a good article that should be explored further.

When I meet or hear a black person who is rigidly racist I have to think
about what they must have gone thru in their life to turn them thus. I

then

silently thank god for the black men who have risen above the resentment

and

hate. They have had a positive impact on us.

When I hear a Liberal who is foaming at the mouth I have a hard time
understanding what they have gone thru. Nor does their retoric provide

any

solutions to the real life problems they are protesting against.

The marine that went balistic at the poor man and woman who were

peacefully

demonstrating I can understand because I have been thru some of the

same

history. Thousands were killed needlessly in Vietnam because of

POLITICS in

this country. It's starting again. A war that is nessasary for the

long

term safety of the world is being turned into a political football.


There's no evidence the war Bush is waging will ensure the long term
safety of anything.


If you would clear your mind of your hatred of Pres. Bush you might be able
to see clearly enough to understand that we are in a war for our national
and western cultural survival.




There is no evidence whatsoever that Bush's War will have any positive
impact on our survival or that of "western" culture.

Your posit is just the latest in the never-ending string of
rationalizations for idiot Bush's warmongering in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Furthermore, I find nothing of value in the Bush or neocon philosophy of
how the United States or "the world" should be, in terms of what
survives or what is of value. What I see in Bush and the neocons is a
new, world-wide, fascist order which the United Stetes "rules" for a
short time through military action, threats of military action, and
various nefarious efforts to prop up pseudo-democracies that play ball
with "the" vision.

Such an empire is inherently evil and will not last long.

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:P5evc.6277$sI.466@attbi_s52...

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I can empathize with Mr. ex-Navy. There's no reasoning with people
like
Ms.
Kneisler because they lack logic and reason. It's like trying to
debate
with a 2 year old. However, you don't get angry with the two year
old,
because he/she doesn't know any better. A grown woman like Ms.
Kneisler
should know better...and that's where the frustration sets in.

She probably does, but it is all politics......11,000 deaths, as she
cites,
would equal between 88 and 158 days of deaths of innocents that
Hussein
averaged. (depnding on whois doing the count) In reality, the US, in
the
last year, has saved up to 35,000 in the last year

much snipage

Hmmm,

I think your numbers may not tell the whole story.

Just like the liebral's sign didn't


How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

One reason the numbers vary from 88 to 158......depends on who is doing
the counting and who is counted .


Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal
embargo?

None.


Mark Browne

How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

Quite a bit.

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal embargo?

Oh, oh. Not so fast. Saddam managed to live in a state of unfettered opulence
throughout the embargo. Remember when one of his sons loaded a 40' trailer with
$US and lit out for Iran as the invasion closed in on Baghdad? Even if the
average
denomination was a $20, a trailer-full has got to be tens of millions. That
money could have purchased a 20 pound bag of rice for every family in Iraq,
every month, for one hell of a long time. But, it didn't.

Saddam was a *******. Any ruler who will live in luxury out of the national
purse (rather than personal wealth) while kids are commonly dying from
starvation is a *******. No serious person will lament that he has been
removed- the legitimately debatable point is whether the end justified the
means.

Whether the embargo was right, or not, is less important than the established
fact Hussein did far less than he could or should have done to ease the
suffering of his people. A significant portion of the embargo deaths *are* his
fault.

** He's on the West coast...whole different world! **

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
. ..

"Don White" wrote:
Another gun tottin' American jailed.

Hey Don, you guys ever take out your own trash? You know, like Robinson?

Got your own problems in the great white north, eh?

Jack

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

Quite a bit.

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal
embargo?

Oh, oh. Not so fast. Saddam managed to live in a state of unfettered
opulence
throughout the embargo. Remember when one of his sons loaded a 40' trailer
with
$US and lit out for Iran as the invasion closed in on Baghdad? Even if the
average
denomination was a $20, a trailer-full has got to be tens of millions.
That
money could have purchased a 20 pound bag of rice for every family in
Iraq,
every month, for one hell of a long time. But, it didn't.

Saddam was a *******. Any ruler who will live in luxury out of the
national
purse (rather than personal wealth) while kids are commonly dying from
starvation is a *******. No serious person will lament that he has been
removed- the legitimately debatable point is whether the end justified the
means.

Whether the embargo was right, or not, is less important than the
established
fact Hussein did far less than he could or should have done to ease the
suffering of his people. A significant portion of the embargo deaths *are*
his
fault.


This is one of the rare cases where somebody said something that changed my
mind on a newsgroup.

Thanks.

Mark Browne

The amount was in excess of $900,000,000 Just shy of a billion.

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:8zwvc.33817$pt3.5356@attbi_s03...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the
wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

Quite a bit.

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal
embargo?

Oh, oh. Not so fast. Saddam managed to live in a state of unfettered
opulence
throughout the embargo. Remember when one of his sons loaded a 40'
trailer
with
$US and lit out for Iran as the invasion closed in on Baghdad? Even if
the
average
denomination was a $20, a trailer-full has got to be tens of millions.
That
money could have purchased a 20 pound bag of rice for every family in
Iraq,
every month, for one hell of a long time. But, it didn't.

Saddam was a *******. Any ruler who will live in luxury out of the
national
purse (rather than personal wealth) while kids are commonly dying from
starvation is a *******. No serious person will lament that he has been
removed- the legitimately debatable point is whether the end justified
the
means.

Whether the embargo was right, or not, is less important than the
established
fact Hussein did far less than he could or should have done to ease the
suffering of his people. A significant portion of the embargo deaths
*are*
his
fault.


This is one of the rare cases where somebody said something that changed
my
mind on a newsgroup.

Thanks.

Mark Browne

"Jack Goff" wrote in message ...
"Don White" wrote:
Another gun tottin' American jailed.

Hey Don, you guys ever take out your own trash? You know, like Robinson?

Got your own problems in the great white north, eh?

Jack

What a bigot. Against anything that isn't white, with a red neck, huh?

"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:P5evc.6277$sI.466@attbi_s52...
"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I can empathize with Mr. ex-Navy. There's no reasoning with people like
Ms.
Kneisler because they lack logic and reason. It's like trying to debate
with a 2 year old. However, you don't get angry with the two year old,
because he/she doesn't know any better. A grown woman like Ms.
Kneisler
should know better...and that's where the frustration sets in.

She probably does, but it is all politics......11,000 deaths, as she
cites,
would equal between 88 and 158 days of deaths of innocents that Hussein
averaged. (depnding on whois doing the count) In reality, the US, in the
last year, has saved up to 35,000 in the last year

much snipage

Hmmm,

I think your numbers may not tell the whole story.

How much of the Saddam death toll is the folks we left twist in the wind
after they thought we would support them in thier uprising?

We should have supported them. However I would love for you to
explain the logic used to transfer blame from Saddam to the U.S. for
the thing he did.

Further, how many Iraqi deaths were due to fallout from the brutal embargo?

Who made the emabargo so brutal? Not the U.S. There was more than
enough money going into Iraq to keep everyone sustained. That money
was going through a UNITED NATIONS operated program. Saddam lived
large off that money - and it appears that official from other
countries also engaged in personally profiting from that program.