Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Scooby Doo wrote:
DSK wrote in
:

What "value" is being negated?

The value as wildlife refuge & habitat.


Scooby Doo wrote:
The other NINETY-TWO PERCENT REMAINS UNTOUCHED.

And if the construction cuts migration routes, then the whole rest of
it might as well not be there.

As I said, the caribou population has TRIPLED since the Alaska pipeline
went in. So please don't dust off moronic arguments that were
categorically refuted a generation ago.

That isn't true. And in fact all of the biologists who've studied
caribou around Prudhoe Bay say that developing ANWR will cause a
decline in the Porcupine Caribou Herd.


"In summary, 4 research-based ecological arguments indicate
that the Porcupine caribou herd may be particularly
sensitive to development within the 1002 portion of the
calving ground:

Low productivity of the Porcupine caribou herd - The
Porcupine caribou herd has had the lowest capacity for
growth among Alaska barren-ground herds ... the Porcupine
caribou herd has less capacity to accommodate ... stresses
than other Alaska ... herds. Any absolute effect of
development would be expected to have a larger relative
effect on the Porcupine caribou herd than on the other
herds. For example, an approximate 4.6% reduction in calf
survival, all else held equal, would be enough to prevent
Porcupine caribou herd growth under the best conditions
observed to date ... A similar reduction in calf survival,
all else held equal, for other Alaska barren-ground herds,
however, would not be sufficient to arrest their growth.

Demonstrated shift of concentrated calving areas of the
Central Arctic caribou herd away from petroleum development
infrastructures - ... the Porcupine caribou herd caribou
will avoid roads and pipelines during calving ... Avoidance
of petroleum development infrastructure by parturient
caribou ... is the most consistently observed behavioral
response of caribou to development.

Lack of high-quality alternate calving habitat - ... When
snow cover reduced access by females to the Arctic Refuge
coastal plain and 1002 Area for calving, calf survival
during June was 19% lower than when they could calve on the
Arctic Refuge coastal plain and 1002 Area.

Strong link between calf survival and free movement of
females - ... data predict that June calf survival for the
Porcupine caribou herd will decline if the calving grounds
are displaced ... is a function of displacement: 1) reducing
access to the highest quality habitats for foraging and 2)
increasing exposure to risk of mortality from predation
during calving (first 3 weeks of June).

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/1002/section3part5.htm

And here's what the head biologist for the Procupine Caribou
Herd studies said in testimony to Congress:

"Considering of the importance of the Porcupine Caribou Herd
to indigenous people in United States and Canada, and the
high likelihood that petroleum leasing and development would
cause long-term harm to those caribou, 21 arctic caribou
biologists from the US and Canada signed a letter to former
President Clinton urging permanent protection of the
Porcupine Herd calving grounds from development. Over 500
prominent North American scientists signed a letter to
President Bush urging protection of the Arctic Refuge
Coastal Plain to safeguard caribou and other natural
resource values. Protection of the Coastal Plain has also
been endorsed by the Alaska Chapter of The Wildlife Society,
the American Society of Mammalogists, and the Cooper
Ornithological Union. Copies of the letters and resolutions
are attached. I urge Congress to heed the advice of these
eminent wildlife biologists and ecologists and not allow
petroleum development on the Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain."
Ken Whitten's statement to Congress
http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/ar...ws/whitten.pdf

And even if it doesn't, it appears the loonylefty mantra has changed
from "People, not profits" to "Caribou, not people".

In fact the purpose of protecting the Porcupine Caribou Herd is specifically
to protect the Gwich'in culture. It *is* a people issue.

And I'm sure you can scan and post a photograh of one such species from
the last trip you took to ANWR. Here, I'll provide room for you to post
that pictu

http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson/anwr/

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.

I can. And I'll drown you in facts that can't be disputed too. ;-)

The problem is actually that *you* don't have a clue what you are
talking about. And I'll be happy to set the record straight.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)


This can't possibly be true. Rush Limbaugh insists that the caribou are
thriving as a direct result of the AK pipeline. (Maybe he thinks they
bought stock in Exxon).

"Scooby Doo" wrote in message
...
wrote in
oups.com:


Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.


Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.

BWAAAHAAAAA!!!! Bill has been proven dead wrong AGAIN!!!! You're
bull**** about ANWR, and the caribou herds have been blown totally out
of the water by one single person!!!!!!!

You have to love a retard who doesn't know the difference between a
possessive and a contraction. Actually, you don't.

LMAO.........and kevin wonders why he retains the title of "King of the NG
idiots"

It appears that Mr. Kruase is here just to disrupt this forum. He doesn't
want to discuss boats or have a rational debate on any topic. He is nothing
more than a newsgroup troll.


"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.

Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.


Sure I can, but there's no point to doing so in this newsgroup, not with
the current population of right-wing robots.

Scooby Doo wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:


Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.


Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.

BWAAAHAAAAA!!!! Bill has been proven dead wrong AGAIN!!!! You're
bull**** about ANWR, and the caribou herds have been blown totally out
of the water by one single person!!!!!!!

You have to love a retard who doesn't know the difference between a
possessive and a contraction. Actually, you don't.

Hmm, do you want to get into a ****ing contest about grammar? I take it
that you know nothing about the subject, or are too narrow minded to
give a ****, right? Now, take a look at your circle jerk buddies'
grammar.

Scooby Doo wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 11 Aug 2005 07:10:43 -0700, wrote:


Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're
useless.


Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.

BWAAAHAAAAA!!!! Bill has been proven dead wrong AGAIN!!!! You're
bull**** about ANWR, and the caribou herds have been blown totally out
of the water by one single person!!!!!!!

Do you know for a fact he's single, or is that just another wild,
unfounded allegation?

Who would marry a dweeb who admits he knows about two dozen academic
papers written about one caribou species?

Childish name calling and petty insults certainly say alot about your
credibility.

Gene Kearns wrote:


Filled up at this station prior to boating last weekend.

This reflects fuel prices between Oak Island and Southport, NC. If
anybody thinks fuel prices haven't soared beyond any
adjusted-for-whatever periods in the past,see if you remember any fuel
signs vaguely similar....

By the way, this is a totally unretouched sign... it genuinely said
what is says....

--


What sign? I wanted to take a look but I don't see a link or anything
in your post...

richforman

_ ___c
\ _| \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage*
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

You all know it doesnt matter how many pipelines we have, how many wells we
have, the problem is we dont have the refineries to produce the gas. We can
have a surplus of oil and we will still have this problem. We havent built a
new refinery in over 20 years.
wrote in message
ups.com...

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Scooby Doo wrote:
DSK wrote in
:

What "value" is being negated?

The value as wildlife refuge & habitat.


Scooby Doo wrote:
The other NINETY-TWO PERCENT REMAINS UNTOUCHED.

And if the construction cuts migration routes, then the whole rest of
it might as well not be there.

As I said, the caribou population has TRIPLED since the Alaska pipeline
went in. So please don't dust off moronic arguments that were
categorically refuted a generation ago.

That isn't true. And in fact all of the biologists who've studied
caribou around Prudhoe Bay say that developing ANWR will cause a
decline in the Porcupine Caribou Herd.


"In summary, 4 research-based ecological arguments indicate
that the Porcupine caribou herd may be particularly
sensitive to development within the 1002 portion of the
calving ground:

Low productivity of the Porcupine caribou herd - The
Porcupine caribou herd has had the lowest capacity for
growth among Alaska barren-ground herds ... the Porcupine
caribou herd has less capacity to accommodate ... stresses
than other Alaska ... herds. Any absolute effect of
development would be expected to have a larger relative
effect on the Porcupine caribou herd than on the other
herds. For example, an approximate 4.6% reduction in calf
survival, all else held equal, would be enough to prevent
Porcupine caribou herd growth under the best conditions
observed to date ... A similar reduction in calf survival,
all else held equal, for other Alaska barren-ground herds,
however, would not be sufficient to arrest their growth.

Demonstrated shift of concentrated calving areas of the
Central Arctic caribou herd away from petroleum development
infrastructures - ... the Porcupine caribou herd caribou
will avoid roads and pipelines during calving ... Avoidance
of petroleum development infrastructure by parturient
caribou ... is the most consistently observed behavioral
response of caribou to development.

Lack of high-quality alternate calving habitat - ... When
snow cover reduced access by females to the Arctic Refuge
coastal plain and 1002 Area for calving, calf survival
during June was 19% lower than when they could calve on the
Arctic Refuge coastal plain and 1002 Area.

Strong link between calf survival and free movement of
females - ... data predict that June calf survival for the
Porcupine caribou herd will decline if the calving grounds
are displaced ... is a function of displacement: 1) reducing
access to the highest quality habitats for foraging and 2)
increasing exposure to risk of mortality from predation
during calving (first 3 weeks of June).

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/1002/section3part5.htm

And here's what the head biologist for the Procupine Caribou
Herd studies said in testimony to Congress:

"Considering of the importance of the Porcupine Caribou Herd
to indigenous people in United States and Canada, and the
high likelihood that petroleum leasing and development would
cause long-term harm to those caribou, 21 arctic caribou
biologists from the US and Canada signed a letter to former
President Clinton urging permanent protection of the
Porcupine Herd calving grounds from development. Over 500
prominent North American scientists signed a letter to
President Bush urging protection of the Arctic Refuge
Coastal Plain to safeguard caribou and other natural
resource values. Protection of the Coastal Plain has also
been endorsed by the Alaska Chapter of The Wildlife Society,
the American Society of Mammalogists, and the Cooper
Ornithological Union. Copies of the letters and resolutions
are attached. I urge Congress to heed the advice of these
eminent wildlife biologists and ecologists and not allow
petroleum development on the Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain."
Ken Whitten's statement to Congress
http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/ar...ws/whitten.pdf

And even if it doesn't, it appears the loonylefty mantra has changed
from "People, not profits" to "Caribou, not people".

In fact the purpose of protecting the Porcupine Caribou Herd is
specifically
to protect the Gwich'in culture. It *is* a people issue.

And I'm sure you can scan and post a photograh of one such species from
the last trip you took to ANWR. Here, I'll provide room for you to post
that pictu

http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson/anwr/

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.

I can. And I'll drown you in facts that can't be disputed too. ;-)

The problem is actually that *you* don't have a clue what you are
talking about. And I'll be happy to set the record straight.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)


This can't possibly be true. Rush Limbaugh insists that the caribou are
thriving as a direct result of the AK pipeline. (Maybe he thinks they
bought stock in Exxon).

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.

Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.


Sure I can, but there's no point to doing so in this newsgroup, not with
the current population of right-wing robots.

Yeah, right.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.


Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.

BWAAAHAAAAA!!!! Bill has been proven dead wrong AGAIN!!!! You're
bull**** about ANWR, and the caribou herds have been blown totally out
of the water by one single person!!!!!!!


Where are the scientific studies? Not a posting by someone who has a vested
interest in no development.

Bill McKee wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Bill McKee wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Scooby Doo wrote:

As I said, since you can't rationally debate ANWR, you're useless.


Yet another brain-dead reich-winger for rec.boats.

Seems you can't rationally debate either.

BWAAAHAAAAA!!!! Bill has been proven dead wrong AGAIN!!!! You're
bull**** about ANWR, and the caribou herds have been blown totally out
of the water by one single person!!!!!!!


Where are the scientific studies? Not a posting by someone who has a vested
interest in no development.

Are you really so stupid that you don't understand that IF someone "has
a vested interest in no development", that they could, and do come by
their conclusions by good, sound, scientific studies????? You've seen
many, many posts right here that show that the caribou are NOT thriving
because of the pipeline, and that ANWR isn't the waste hole that you
make it out to be. Now, let's make this easy on you. Where are the
scientific studies that you saw that said that the caribou along the
pipeline like it, are and are thriving because of it.