I agree that running the engine without cooling water for a brief time isn't
fatal to the engine...but it could ruin the plastic/nylon impeller.
"Proxy" wrote in message
...
It is simpler then you could imagine. Outdrive was out (Alpha One). Went
to
the mechanic, he used the alignment tool greased all and still could not
get
the drive inside (went in until last half inch and then stop, huge pain.
Checked alignment several time is my presence , suspected misaligned
engine
but the tool was showing +/-OK. He said yoke is not right (wrong) although
that was running OK as to the previous owner (bought with the outdrive
out).
Gave my money back after a fight, he has torn 4 outdrive gaskets and was
in
killing mode (he spent 4 hrs). I went to my friend , he runs marine
services, he checked alignment, said "tight" but unlike the other guy
managed to install the drive in 20 min. Interestingly when the drive was
almost fully in (5-10 mm to go) the was a loud clunk, like the engine -
drive combo got in place but that was "unusual" according to him yet he
still proceeded, tightened the screws. Job done.
Subsequently I did some engine work, wanted to test it and ran the engine
dry for 10 sec. - clunk, stopped, all seemed OK, checked the engine, no
issues, tried again 10 sec. same, stopped tried again more like 20 sec.
the
clunk was loud like a wrench inside a metal pipe rattling and hitting
sided
while rotating. Last try I ran the engine at fast idle (all was done on a
trailer, no water.). Then I saw a small blue cloud and felt.rubber smell.
I
thought coupler, plus u-joint rattle due to misalignment (previous owner
could have manipulated it (not me). My thinking was: replace the coupler,
align the stuff install the drive and check then for further signs.
2 mechanics fu..ed up even though I told them both to align the engine if
suspected. bad. Both said "we can handle it". Now I HAVE TO FIX THE MESS:
I
think that has prolly contributed to this was the outdrive in up position
(but prop was not moving) so not in gear. Rear engine mounts look OK. I
know
I need to check all but coupler is tough as the only to conclusively test
it would
be on the water (for slippage). That would req. installing all back in,
launching, and then going back home to start dismantling again, kind of
stupid, don't u think?

As to running dry, no big deal, I have fixed more then a few seized
engines
(running fine) so I know where the limits are. Water or no water, block
temp
is to low to cause and damage except for impeller that I have written off
anyway for this experiment. Within 1 min. the engine won't reach any temp
that may be considered even close to dangerous. Same applies to cars. All
u
need is lubrication and oil in the crankcase. Done it several times and
never seen any issue whatsoever even after a long time after that (2
years).
To me it seems logical and according to laws of physics. U need water to
cool hot/warm engine not the cold one. Just few remarks, nothing personal.
After all this is a hobby for me, I'm not a pro, just happen to know few
things (except as described, to say the least).
Thanks.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr Wizzard"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 3:25 AM
Subject: Engine coupler



"Proxy" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've been recently offered a used coupler as I suspected mine to be
shot.
I
lifted my 4.3 Merc and removed the old one. Both "new"-used one as well
as
the old one looked exactly the same. I inspected the rubber, splines
were
no
different and looked exactly identical to the smallest detail.

Since the suspected damage was due to the engine misalignment

So how did the engine get misaligned? or is this "suspected"
misalignment ? As I see it, the only way misalignment could
happen is the bushing in front tripod mount got beat out, or
someone messed with the adjustment, or something in the
transom mount, or the transom (or the entire structure) got
shifted, or racked ot something.


(lots of rattling and
clunking in the back of the engine (sounded like a piston rod broke
loose
and was hitting cylinder walls)

Sounds more like U-joints, or outdrive related. Did you check that ?
Also, check it with the cups on (in neutral) - should be able to walk
about the back and check it more closely. Since the U joints run at
the same speed at the engine (and connecting rods), that could be
your noise. (are you sure its *not* a connecting rod) ?

Is this an Alpha One drive? (or an older OMC etc ?)


and I ran the engine dry for about 3x 10-15 sec.

How ? 15 seconds, and *three* times?? I'd revisit
your boat operating procedures, because thats hard
to do, and quite frankly, on and a stern drive, thats
borderline operator abuse. (15 Sec is a LONG time).



(last occurrence with some (not much) blue smoke from behind the
engine, immediately shut down)

Blue smoke? god gawd!. What did the smoke smell like?
Oil, or other? (rubber, etc)

I wondered how severe the damage could be
with respect to the coupler condition..

So why do you suspect the coupler? Moreover,
why do you suspect misalignment? What is the
history of this rig ?

Visually there is no way to tell the
difference between the two. Is there any other way to determine how was
my
coupler affected, could it be still OK?.

Again, I think you need to tell us more about the history
of this situation. Why do you suspect misalignment?
You should have pulled the outdrive and checked
alignment with an alignment tool before pulling the motor.
Was there ample greese in the splines?

What would constitute a definitive
damage to the coupler? Simplest would probably be to drop the boat on
the
water but this is out of the question at the moment (engine is still
disconnected). Any suggestions?

Your questions seem strange - why would you go
and pull the motor like this without checking into some
of the basics (like engine alignment) ??











"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"Proxy" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've been recently offered a used coupler as I suspected mine to be
shot.
I
lifted my 4.3 Merc and removed the old one. Both "new"-used one as well
as
the old one looked exactly the same. I inspected the rubber, splines
were
no
different and looked exactly identical to the smallest detail.

Since the suspected damage was due to the engine misalignment

So how did the engine get misaligned? or is this "suspected"
misalignment ? As I see it, the only way misalignment could
happen is the bushing in front tripod mount got beat out, or
someone messed with the adjustment, or something in the
transom mount, or the transom (or the entire structure) got
shifted, or racked ot something.


(lots of rattling and
clunking in the back of the engine (sounded like a piston rod broke
loose
and was hitting cylinder walls)

Sounds more like U-joints, or outdrive related. Did you check that ?
Also, check it with the cups on (in neutral) - should be able to walk
about the back and check it more closely. Since the U joints run at
the same speed at the engine (and connecting rods), that could be
your noise. (are you sure its *not* a connecting rod) ?

Is this an Alpha One drive? (or an older OMC etc ?)


and I ran the engine dry for about 3x 10-15 sec.

How ? 15 seconds, and *three* times?? I'd revisit
your boat operating procedures, because thats hard
to do, and quite frankly, on and a stern drive, thats
borderline operator abuse. (15 Sec is a LONG time).



(last occurrence with some (not much) blue smoke from behind the
engine, immediately shut down)

Blue smoke? god gawd!. What did the smoke smell like?
Oil, or other? (rubber, etc)

I wondered how severe the damage could be
with respect to the coupler condition..

So why do you suspect the coupler? Moreover,
why do you suspect misalignment? What is the
history of this rig ?

Visually there is no way to tell the
difference between the two. Is there any other way to determine how was
my
coupler affected, could it be still OK?.

Again, I think you need to tell us more about the history
of this situation. Why do you suspect misalignment?
You should have pulled the outdrive and checked
alignment with an alignment tool before pulling the motor.
Was there ample greese in the splines?

What would constitute a definitive
damage to the coupler? Simplest would probably be to drop the boat on
the
water but this is out of the question at the moment (engine is still
disconnected). Any suggestions?

Your questions seem strange - why would you go
and pull the motor like this without checking into some
of the basics (like engine alignment) ??

"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:dHxye.3791$HV1.1703@fed1read07...
I agree that running the engine without cooling water for a brief time
isn't
fatal to the engine...but it could ruin the plastic/nylon impeller.

In "60" seconds too I might add. Go read any Clymer, Force,
Chrysler etc manual - they all have photos in 15-second intervals
of what happens to the impeller with no water. 60 Seconds, its toast.
(his clunk is probably the impeller itself getting all chewed up) hehe.



"Proxy" wrote in message
...
It is simpler then you could imagine. Outdrive was out (Alpha One). Went
to
the mechanic, he used the alignment tool greased all and still could not
get
the drive inside (went in until last half inch and then stop, huge pain.
Checked alignment several time is my presence , suspected misaligned
engine
but the tool was showing +/-OK. He said yoke is not right (wrong)
although
that was running OK as to the previous owner (bought with the outdrive
out).
Gave my money back after a fight, he has torn 4 outdrive gaskets and was
in
killing mode (he spent 4 hrs). I went to my friend , he runs marine
services, he checked alignment, said "tight" but unlike the other guy
managed to install the drive in 20 min. Interestingly when the drive was
almost fully in (5-10 mm to go) the was a loud clunk, like the engine -
drive combo got in place but that was "unusual" according to him yet he
still proceeded, tightened the screws. Job done.
Subsequently I did some engine work, wanted to test it and ran the
engine
dry for 10 sec. - clunk, stopped, all seemed OK, checked the engine, no
issues, tried again 10 sec. same, stopped tried again more like 20 sec.
the
clunk was loud like a wrench inside a metal pipe rattling and hitting
sided
while rotating. Last try I ran the engine at fast idle (all was done on
a
trailer, no water.). Then I saw a small blue cloud and felt.rubber
smell.
I
thought coupler, plus u-joint rattle due to misalignment (previous owner
could have manipulated it (not me). My thinking was: replace the
coupler,
align the stuff install the drive and check then for further signs.
2 mechanics fu..ed up even though I told them both to align the engine
if
suspected. bad. Both said "we can handle it". Now I HAVE TO FIX THE
MESS:
I
think that has prolly contributed to this was the outdrive in up
position
(but prop was not moving) so not in gear. Rear engine mounts look OK. I
know
I need to check all but coupler is tough as the only to conclusively
test
it would
be on the water (for slippage). That would req. installing all back in,
launching, and then going back home to start dismantling again, kind of
stupid, don't u think?

As to running dry, no big deal, I have fixed more then a few seized
engines
(running fine) so I know where the limits are. Water or no water, block
temp
is to low to cause and damage except for impeller that I have written
off
anyway for this experiment. Within 1 min. the engine won't reach any
temp
that may be considered even close to dangerous. Same applies to cars.
All
u
need is lubrication and oil in the crankcase. Done it several times and
never seen any issue whatsoever even after a long time after that (2
years).
To me it seems logical and according to laws of physics. U need water to
cool hot/warm engine not the cold one. Just few remarks, nothing
personal.
After all this is a hobby for me, I'm not a pro, just happen to know few
things (except as described, to say the least).
Thanks.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr Wizzard"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 3:25 AM
Subject: Engine coupler



"Proxy" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've been recently offered a used coupler as I suspected mine to be
shot.
I
lifted my 4.3 Merc and removed the old one. Both "new"-used one as
well
as
the old one looked exactly the same. I inspected the rubber, splines
were
no
different and looked exactly identical to the smallest detail.

Since the suspected damage was due to the engine misalignment

So how did the engine get misaligned? or is this "suspected"
misalignment ? As I see it, the only way misalignment could
happen is the bushing in front tripod mount got beat out, or
someone messed with the adjustment, or something in the
transom mount, or the transom (or the entire structure) got
shifted, or racked ot something.


(lots of rattling and
clunking in the back of the engine (sounded like a piston rod broke
loose
and was hitting cylinder walls)

Sounds more like U-joints, or outdrive related. Did you check that ?
Also, check it with the cups on (in neutral) - should be able to walk
about the back and check it more closely. Since the U joints run at
the same speed at the engine (and connecting rods), that could be
your noise. (are you sure its *not* a connecting rod) ?

Is this an Alpha One drive? (or an older OMC etc ?)


and I ran the engine dry for about 3x 10-15 sec.

How ? 15 seconds, and *three* times?? I'd revisit
your boat operating procedures, because thats hard
to do, and quite frankly, on and a stern drive, thats
borderline operator abuse. (15 Sec is a LONG time).



(last occurrence with some (not much) blue smoke from behind the
engine, immediately shut down)

Blue smoke? god gawd!. What did the smoke smell like?
Oil, or other? (rubber, etc)

I wondered how severe the damage could be
with respect to the coupler condition..

So why do you suspect the coupler? Moreover,
why do you suspect misalignment? What is the
history of this rig ?

Visually there is no way to tell the
difference between the two. Is there any other way to determine how
was
my
coupler affected, could it be still OK?.

Again, I think you need to tell us more about the history
of this situation. Why do you suspect misalignment?
You should have pulled the outdrive and checked
alignment with an alignment tool before pulling the motor.
Was there ample greese in the splines?

What would constitute a definitive
damage to the coupler? Simplest would probably be to drop the boat on
the
water but this is out of the question at the moment (engine is still
disconnected). Any suggestions?

Your questions seem strange - why would you go
and pull the motor like this without checking into some
of the basics (like engine alignment) ??











"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"Proxy" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've been recently offered a used coupler as I suspected mine to be
shot.
I
lifted my 4.3 Merc and removed the old one. Both "new"-used one as
well
as
the old one looked exactly the same. I inspected the rubber, splines
were
no
different and looked exactly identical to the smallest detail.

Since the suspected damage was due to the engine misalignment

So how did the engine get misaligned? or is this "suspected"
misalignment ? As I see it, the only way misalignment could
happen is the bushing in front tripod mount got beat out, or
someone messed with the adjustment, or something in the
transom mount, or the transom (or the entire structure) got
shifted, or racked ot something.


(lots of rattling and
clunking in the back of the engine (sounded like a piston rod broke
loose
and was hitting cylinder walls)

Sounds more like U-joints, or outdrive related. Did you check that ?
Also, check it with the cups on (in neutral) - should be able to walk
about the back and check it more closely. Since the U joints run at
the same speed at the engine (and connecting rods), that could be
your noise. (are you sure its *not* a connecting rod) ?

Is this an Alpha One drive? (or an older OMC etc ?)


and I ran the engine dry for about 3x 10-15 sec.

How ? 15 seconds, and *three* times?? I'd revisit
your boat operating procedures, because thats hard
to do, and quite frankly, on and a stern drive, thats
borderline operator abuse. (15 Sec is a LONG time).



(last occurrence with some (not much) blue smoke from behind the
engine, immediately shut down)

Blue smoke? god gawd!. What did the smoke smell like?
Oil, or other? (rubber, etc)

I wondered how severe the damage could be
with respect to the coupler condition..

So why do you suspect the coupler? Moreover,
why do you suspect misalignment? What is the
history of this rig ?

Visually there is no way to tell the
difference between the two. Is there any other way to determine how
was
my
coupler affected, could it be still OK?.

Again, I think you need to tell us more about the history
of this situation. Why do you suspect misalignment?
You should have pulled the outdrive and checked
alignment with an alignment tool before pulling the motor.
Was there ample greese in the splines?

What would constitute a definitive
damage to the coupler? Simplest would probably be to drop the boat on
the
water but this is out of the question at the moment (engine is still
disconnected). Any suggestions?

Your questions seem strange - why would you go
and pull the motor like this without checking into some
of the basics (like engine alignment) ??