in article , BCITORGB at
wrote on 6/17/05 10:05 PM:

i initially thought michael was nit-picking a bit... but, in matters
technical, i've found he is worth listening to... after all of this,
i'm with him...

although, keenan, i think you're quite right when you assert "a shorter
boat shaped like a cigar is probably faster than a longer boat shaped
like a square"... too right!

LOL. I think I'm just not understanding that people actually enjoy arguing
about such things. When it comes to paddling I'm more interested in what
people see or do while paddling than whether or not you can go .000032
seconds faster depending on whether or not you wax your boat.

There's more to the simple truth of this matter than cigar vs square. If the
damned boat is the same design only longer, it goes faster.

If the boats are of different design, then obviously the difference in
design is going to have to be taken into account, not just the length.

Beyond that this whole discussion sounds like geeks on steroids to me.

Keenan or Julie wrote:

[...]
If the damned boat is the same design only longer, it goes faster.

Depending on the power of the 'engine', it could as well go
slower...

Beyond that this whole discussion sounds like geeks on steroids to
me.

Perhaps, but if you choose a longer boat with the illusion that it
goes faster while in reality it will only make you work harder or go
slower, that persons will need the steroids or may be quite
disappointed.

in article , Dirk Barends at
wrote on 6/18/05 4:14 AM:

Keenan or Julie wrote:

[...]
If the damned boat is the same design only longer, it goes faster.

Depending on the power of the 'engine', it could as well go
slower...

Uh. Good gried, I think you need to assume the same paddle power in this
discussion.

But, if necessary, I shall add that a more powerful paddler in the shorter
boat could indeed go faster than a less powerful paddler in the longer boat.
Sigh.

Beyond that this whole discussion sounds like geeks on steroids to
me.

Perhaps, but if you choose a longer boat with the illusion that it
goes faster while in reality it will only make you work harder or go
slower, that persons will need the steroids or may be quite
disappointed.

Yes, I understand there are long lines of disappointed paddlers who bought
longer kayaks and ended up being miserable about how slow they are moving.

Keenan

Well, settled, I've tried the Manitou and it's too small for me. Later
I tried a Tarpon 160 and found it very nice. It'll be my next boat.
THANKS ALL!!!

Best Wishes

Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.

Also, compare long boat to short boat. 13'2" race boat can attain, make
many more moves than a short boat. Hense, make far more use of the river
than any drop and spin boat that only sits in holes throwing ends.

Keenan & Julie wrote:
in article , BCITORGB at
wrote on 6/17/05 10:05 PM:


i initially thought michael was nit-picking a bit... but, in matters
technical, i've found he is worth listening to... after all of this,
i'm with him...

although, keenan, i think you're quite right when you assert "a shorter
boat shaped like a cigar is probably faster than a longer boat shaped
like a square"... too right!


LOL. I think I'm just not understanding that people actually enjoy arguing
about such things. When it comes to paddling I'm more interested in what
people see or do while paddling than whether or not you can go .000032
seconds faster depending on whether or not you wax your boat.

There's more to the simple truth of this matter than cigar vs square. If the
damned boat is the same design only longer, it goes faster.

If the boats are of different design, then obviously the difference in
design is going to have to be taken into account, not just the length.

Beyond that this whole discussion sounds like geeks on steroids to me.

Brian wrote:

Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.


But, if you sand too coursely don't you create turbulances that
increase drag? Why are surfboards waxed?





--
"This president has destroyed the country, the economy,
the relationship with the rest of the world.
He's a monster in the White House. He should resign."

- Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003.

in article , Brian at
wrote on 6/19/05 9:24 AM:

Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.

ROFL, thanks for proving my point.

Also, compare long boat to short boat. 13'2" race boat can attain, make
many more moves than a short boat. Hense, make far more use of the river
than any drop and spin boat that only sits in holes throwing ends.

If you are trying to say that shorter boat can make turns more easily than a
longer boat (other design factors being equal) this too requires no debate.

Keenan & Julie wrote:
in article , BCITORGB at
wrote on 6/17/05 10:05 PM:


i initially thought michael was nit-picking a bit... but, in matters
technical, i've found he is worth listening to... after all of this,
i'm with him...

although, keenan, i think you're quite right when you assert "a shorter
boat shaped like a cigar is probably faster than a longer boat shaped
like a square"... too right!


LOL. I think I'm just not understanding that people actually enjoy arguing
about such things. When it comes to paddling I'm more interested in what
people see or do while paddling than whether or not you can go .000032
seconds faster depending on whether or not you wax your boat.

There's more to the simple truth of this matter than cigar vs square. If the
damned boat is the same design only longer, it goes faster.

If the boats are of different design, then obviously the difference in
design is going to have to be taken into account, not just the length.

Beyond that this whole discussion sounds like geeks on steroids to me.

in article , Frederick Burroughs at
wrote on 6/19/05 9:47 AM:

Brian wrote:

Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.


But, if you sand too coursely don't you create turbulances that
increase drag? Why are surfboards waxed?

Aaaaaa! Stop! Stop! ROFL

Keenan & Julie wrote:

in article , Frederick Burroughs at
wrote on 6/19/05 9:47 AM:


Brian wrote:


Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.


But, if you sand too coursely don't you create turbulances that
increase drag? Why are surfboards waxed?

Aaaaaa! Stop! Stop! ROFL


You could have a sharkskin textured slipover designed for your kayak,
similar to the swim wear worn by some athletes. In designer colors
and patterns, it is worn by your kayak to increase speed and get
envious stares.





--
"This president has destroyed the country, the economy,
the relationship with the rest of the world.
He's a monster in the White House. He should resign."

- Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003.

in article , Frederick Burroughs at
wrote on 6/19/05 10:47 AM:

Keenan & Julie wrote:

in article , Frederick Burroughs at
wrote on 6/19/05 9:47 AM:


Brian wrote:


Waxing the boat will make it go slower as the wax will repel the thin
layer of water called "Laminar layer". Laminar flow must be maintained
for the layer to make proper contact along the hull to form a so called
slip stream. Only way to do this is to compound or wet sand the hull to
make the laminar layer stick to the hull surface.


But, if you sand too coursely don't you create turbulances that
increase drag? Why are surfboards waxed?

Aaaaaa! Stop! Stop! ROFL


You could have a sharkskin textured slipover designed for your kayak,
similar to the swim wear worn by some athletes. In designer colors
and patterns, it is worn by your kayak to increase speed and get
envious stares.

You owe me a dry pair of undies. Only I wasn't wearing any, so you owe me a
mattress.

K

PS: What if you use the slipover with a shorter boat and a wood paddle that
is reinforced with resin vs a longer boat that is waxed but is powered by a
figerglass paddle?