Hi there!
I'm considering a Necky Manitou (12'10") for light weight, seat, looks
and price, but I wonder, what would I lose in speed to, say, a
Mainstream Biscayne (14'6")? I won't be going all out though, just
keeping a medium pace for workout.

Thanks!

On 14-Jun-2005, "donquijote1954" wrote:

I'm considering a Necky Manitou (12'10") for light weight, seat, looks
and price, but I wonder, what would I lose in speed to, say, a
Mainstream Biscayne (14'6")?

Impossible to say. There are many factors that affect speed and overall
length isn't one of them.

I won't be going all out though, just keeping a medium pace for workout.

If all you want is a workout, it doesn't matter how fast the kayak is.
One hour of paddling is one hour of paddling regardless of what you
paddle.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 14-Jun-2005, "donquijote1954"
wrote:

I'm considering a Necky Manitou (12'10") for light weight,
seat, looks
and price, but I wonder, what would I lose in speed to, say, a
Mainstream Biscayne (14'6")?

Impossible to say. There are many factors that affect speed
and overall
length isn't one of them.
=====================
That's not what I have always read. I've always thought that for
boats with the same width
and load, length is the determining factor on speed.
http://gorp.away.com/gorp/publishers/ics/how_cano.htm
http://www.evergreencanoe.com/canoe_design.html
http://www.solarnavigator.net/hull_speed.htm


I won't be going all out though, just keeping a medium pace
for workout.

If all you want is a workout, it doesn't matter how fast the
kayak is.
One hour of paddling is one hour of paddling regardless of what
you
paddle.

Mike

That's what I read too. The question is how a recreational boat would
be slower than a touring boat of the same lenght. I read a bottom that
makes for more initial stability also produces less speed. For example
the Biscayne at 14'6" was rated a mere 3 out of 5 in speed when it was
a Dagger Savannah...

http://www.dagger.com/product.asp?Bo...C&BoatI D=135

Yet it's rated as fast by several reviewers...

"Just bought a Savannah Expedition model. Love it -- fast, stable,
tracks beautifully. Great fit for me. Paddle some rivers, some lakes,
some of Great Lakes. When I demo'd 5 other boats the Savannah was the
hands-down winner."

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/show....html?prod=483

If it's a work out you want Mike is spot on.
As a rule of thumb , longer boats witgh the same displacement are
generally faster. There are exceptions always.
You may be swapping speed and tracking fonr initial stability.
For scooting about a pond and a work out I am not sure it matters.
Alex

OK, here I found some interesting comparison regarding speed...

"The speed I get from the Manitou is also good. Since I can't
accurately factor for wind, current and waves, all I can do is give my
honest opinion/comparison which is that at my average
cruising/daypaddling speed of 3.2-3.8 mph, the effort is no different
between the Manitou and the QCC. The manitou starts to need a bit more
effort at my workout pace which is around 3.8-4.5. After around 4.5 mph
the bow seems to plunge a bit. I never could quite get 5 mph to show on
the GPS, but then I don't plan to race it, I just wanted to see if the
manitou could keep up, and I think it does. For day paddling purposes,
the Manitou performance, stability, and comfort is a 10."

The QCC I believe are full size kayaks so go and figure.

On 14-Jun-2005, "donquijote1954" wrote:

I read a bottom that
makes for more initial stability also produces less speed.

Take the book you read that in and toss it. There are a lot
of misconceptions in canoeing and kayaking. Most seem to have
to do with speed.

You can't predict speed by looking at one geometric factor in
a hull. Speed is a function of many factors.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote
[...]
Take the book you read that in and toss it. There are a lot
of misconceptions in canoeing and kayaking.

If I did that with all my canoeing books,
most of those should be thrown away :-)

But I admit that it really amazes me how most modern canoe books still
repeat the same nonsense over and over an again. While there is so
much really good information available. I understand there is a need
to simplify in books, but it could be done a lot better IMNHO.

Never understood the "TRACKING"" thingy. If the paddler indeed knows how to
"paddle" any boat tracks well. White Water boats are made to spin on a dime,
but track as good as anything else if proper paddling strokes are used.
"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's what I read too. The question is how a recreational boat would
be slower than a touring boat of the same lenght. I read a bottom that
makes for more initial stability also produces less speed. For example
the Biscayne at 14'6" was rated a mere 3 out of 5 in speed when it was
a Dagger Savannah...


http://www.dagger.com/product.asp?Bo...DC&BoatI D=13
5

Yet it's rated as fast by several reviewers...

"Just bought a Savannah Expedition model. Love it -- fast, stable,
tracks beautifully. Great fit for me. Paddle some rivers, some lakes,
some of Great Lakes. When I demo'd 5 other boats the Savannah was the
hands-down winner."

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/show....html?prod=483

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:32:07 -0400, "Grip" wrote:

Never understood the "TRACKING"" thingy. If the paddler indeed knows how to
"paddle" any boat tracks well. White Water boats are made to spin on a dime,
but track as good as anything else if proper paddling strokes are used.


Yep. Loaned my buddy my recreational Old Town Otter one day while I
paddled my Perception Dancer. He was amazed at how I made it track
(and I'm not that good) compared to his friend who'd taken him out one
day to paddle ww kayaks on flat water. I explained that I rarely did
ww (none by choice any more) and had adapted to paddling flat. He
thought I had a different kayak bottom than his friend had. Nope. It
is harder to get used to paddling straight in a ww kayak, but not all
that bad. And it's great for current and eddy lines in flat rivers.
It's not quite as fast going downstream in one, but it's a bit faster
going upstream. For me. I'm slow either way. I like to dawdle along
slowly anyway.

The best part of a keel in flat rivers is that you can do a cross
current ferry with almost no paddling going downstream.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)