When I was looking to buy my first boat I started coming
to this newsgroup and decided to take a boating safety
course. I took, and passed with flying colors, the local
Coast Gurard Power Squardon course. (Or some such
name, don't have the cert handy.)

And yes, it was very useful and the people teaching it are
not to blame for anything that happened to me and I'd
certainly reccomend it.

But there are a few things that I wish they'd covered or
stressed more. I offer these now and ask others to
add to the list in hopes it will help someone else.

WEATHER: Yes, weather was presented. And looking over
the materials I see clear (but short) warnings about knowing
what the weather will be. The thing is, I'm not one normally
to worry much about weather. On land, short of a tornado
or some storm that is ALL OVER the news, one can go
out and do just about anything. The worst that happens is
you have to cancel your plans and drive back home. But
on the water things a TOTALLY different. What seems like
just a little fog that will burn off can be very dangerous. Or
what feels like a little wind on land can be something you
don't want to be out in. ~~ The course tended to be calm
and talk about how to notice weather. There were some
very calm warnings to watch the weather carefully. But it
was not stresses how much different your attitude has to
be when going out on a boat - - especially if it's onto
any large body of water and not just a small lake.

Ok - I've got two or three more to add, but I'll do 'em later.

Gary

I agree about weather but a good weather course might be as long as the whole
"safety" course and for the purposes of a boater it would have to be tailored
for the region you boat in. Watching the weather in Md was not the same as
watching weather here in Florida.
The usual "safety" course is a cookie cutter course that simply blows through
basics. I really think that should just be one step in boater education and you
should also be taking a specific course for the type of boat you plan on using
and the general areas you boat in. A guy on a small lake or river will have
different hazards and experiences than a guy who regularly runs offshore. There
are certainly a lot different operating considerations between a jet ski and a
30' cruiser, yet those people will all still be sitting in the same class.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
I agree about weather but a good weather course might be as long as the
whole
"safety" course...

Agreed. My thought is not necessarily that they teach about weather in
detail but rather
that they might STRESS how important and different than on land it may be.

A guy on a small lake or river will have
different hazards and experiences than a guy who regularly runs offshore.
There
are certainly a lot different operating considerations between a jet ski
and a
30' cruiser, yet those people will all still be sitting in the same class.


Excellent point.

When I was looking to buy my first boat I started coming
to this newsgroup and decided to take a boating safety
course. I took, and passed with flying colors, the local
Coast Gurard Power Squardon course. (Or some such
name, don't have the cert handy.)

And yes, it was very useful and the people teaching it are
not to blame for anything that happened to me and I'd
certainly reccomend it.

But there are a few things that I wish they'd covered or
stressed more. I offer these now and ask others to
add to the list in hopes it will help someone else.

The Power Squadron and Coast Guard Auxiliary courses are, indeed, useful.
They can make a novice aware of some important safety concepts. Many of the
courses are based on a quick skim through Chapmans, and I have always felt that
if a newbie had the self discipline to sit and read Chapman's carefully,
(skipping
on those few parts, such as sail handling, that might not apply to a particular
situation), he or she would probably know
as much or more than the typical mass-pro graduate of an entry level boating
course.

If asked, I would recommend a new boater take the course in addition to
whatever else that boater might be doing to learn the required skills.

Of course you passed with flying colors.
Undoubtedly, you studied hard and mastered the material.

Were there many in your course who completed all the assignments but then
failed to pass?

The downside of some of this instruction is that there is no requirement that
the instructors have any amount of practical boating experience. One could
start with
an entry level course, move on to study advanced charting, coastal navigation,
and other topics, and ultimately become an instructor. All without documenting
any sea time, or possibly without ever setting foot on a boat. Some people join
these organizations for the companionship and organized social events.

Your observation about the way weather was presented is symptomatic of a case
where the almost blind attempt to help the absolutely blind. Some of the almost
blind have never been across the street and couldn't describe anything there
from a first person perspective, but they can read a map that tells everybody
where the other side of the street should, theoretically, be.

When the instructors talk about weather,
the discussion needs to go beyond how many knots wind speed is where on the
Beaufort scale. It has to go beyond, "don't go out if the weather is
questionable or if the short term forecast is bad." It should cover topics
such as how to respond if you
do find yourself, unexpectedly, in a pocket of fog. The instruction should
include recommended operating adjustments to adapt to heavy weather. An
instructor with practical boating experience can share some insight into those
issues. Some of the instructors have little or no boating experience, and the
class surely suffers as a result.

Probably not the fault of the Power Squadron of the USCG Aux entirely, though.
Likely there's a shortage of experienced boaters willing to volunteer to teach
these classes.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

Of course you passed with flying colors.
Undoubtedly, you studied hard and mastered the material.

Were there many in your course who completed all the assignments but then
failed to pass?


I tend to do fine with any type of course like this. They present the
material. It's
not really very difficult anyway. At the end they test I pass.

I fully realize that getting a 95% or 100% on my boating, SCUBA, Rock
Climbing, or CPR/First Aid test does NOT mean that I'm some
great expert. It means I know how to get some basic information and put it
down on a test.

I don't know for sure but I'd guess that 90% of the people passed. I'd guess
the
other 10% had one or two more wrong answers than they were supposed to
and then, after talking to the instructor, still passed. (Just a guess)

Second thing I wish the course had stressed more...BOAT & EQUIPMENT
CONDITION.

They stressed over and over what was required to be on board. Things like
life jackets of the
proper type, throwable PDF, fire-extinguisher, horn, etc. Ok, great.

And there was a section describing mechanical things like the generator,
batteries, how
galvanic action can destroy parts etc.

But what didn't make it into my head (and I'm always open to the idea it
could just
be my own damned fault...but I do think they could stress it more) is how
important
it is to VERIFY that everything on your boat works well. And to KNOW how
each
thing works and how to test it. And not to ASSUME that it works.

People in these basic courses are almost probably all just buying a boat.
(Except
maybe younger kids whos folks already have a boat but are making them now
take the course) And there is a tendency, I think, for someone with a new
boat
to assume the systems work.

My own example: I'm somewhat mechanically inclined. Had done work on cars
before
like changing water pumps, batteries, etc. I go to buy my first boat. It's
about $2000
used. I check it out. I don't feel a surveyor is necessary at this level of
purchase. I go out
for a sea trial with the seller. Everything seems fine. ~~ Turns out the
altenator was not
putting out any juice. The guy had probably charged up the batteries at
home.

Ok, of course a Safety Course can't cover and tell me every single thing to
check. Of course
something can and still will go wrong. But, unlike a car, if there is a
mechanical failure on
a boat it can be life threatning. If your car breaks down, usually you just
pull over and
are inconvienienced. If your boat breaks down you could be in a world of
hurt.

This is all different for me that was going to be using the boat in Boston
harbor and not
some calm and small lake. But the course was taught right on the base in
Boston....

Again, I want to stree that I still think taking a safety course was and is
a great idea. And
I in no way blame them for any lack in my knowledge.

All I'm saying is for new boaters.....

#1 - Know that weather is MUCH mort important on a boat than on land.
#2 - Know that equipment is MUCH more importandon a boat than in a car.

Gary,
Before I bought my first big boat, I spent a lot of time on news groups
like this, too. I explored the Internet for info about boats and
boating, bought some books, and after a year and a half of research,
started looking at boats.
When I started out, I thought I wanted a small houseboat. After 2 years
I ended up with a 31' motor cruiser that would handle all the local
waters (NYS Barge Canal, Lake Ontario, St. Lawrence River), was big
enough to be comfortable for me (6'2", 200 and too many pounds), and was
small enough to handle and maintain myself.
I was brought up fishing in small 14' aluminum boats on Oneida Lake, and
only had a few hours on my buddies house boat in anything larger. I had
never really needed more weather or maintenance or charting lessons,
because I was intimately knowledgeable of my narrow boating scope. Now,
my boating experience was about to expand exponentially, and I needed
direction. Back in the research days, I had come on the local Power
Squadron web site. The 20 hour "Squadron Boating Course" sounded like
what I needed, and I signed up.
The teacher was an old, loud, opinionated salt, who oft as not wouldn't
let you get a word in, and went on and on talking about his views of the
local cruising conditions, seemingly forgetting we had a course book
half the time.
I loved every minute of it. I got a 100 on the test. Neither was any
accident.
I had spent the time to go to class and do my homework, even though lots
of the course material I had read over and over already in other places
when I was doing my "research".
By the time the course was done, I was scared at how much I didn't know.
Luckily on test day there were two people from the Membership
Committee there to recruit us into the Power Squadron. I didn't know a
damn thing about the Power Squadron, but they had advanced, member only
courses I needed, and even if they were a bunch of snotty yachtty types,
I was going for it.
I should have known from the old, loud mouth salt that wasn't to be the
case. (The other reason I joined was to see if there were any more like
him - there was.) What I found was an organization just like the many
others I have belonged to. Many of the members I still haven't met
after 3 1/2 years. I may never know what their agenda is. The members
I've met are the active ones who give freely, unselfishly of their time
to help others. Our local, like ones all over the nation, graduate
100's of the boating public from safety courses every year.
Are all our local teachers boaters - yes. Are they all Anne Sullivans -
no. But they all know how to pull an often uninterested class along,
and present the required safety material to the people who want to hear.
Uninterested? Yup - NY now has a law that all PWC drivers must have
an 8 hour safety course. There was a 5 year graduated phase in, but
most waited until now, when everybody needs it. Often the class can
move only as fast as the slowest denominator.
Our local Squadron has a solid (though too few) core of teachers who do
an incredible job, going where requested, begging classroom space at
local schools, sometimes teaching 2 or 3 days a week. (just about all
our classes are broken into 2 hour weekly segments). They are all
volunteers, working for free.
The Member only courses are more than I hoped for. Not only do you get
the course information, you get to know the other Squadron students, who
have a vast range of experience to share. We're crossing Lake Ontario
this summer and going up the St. Lawrence the first time. One of my
Squadron buddies is crewing part way to show us some of the ins and outs.
The Power Squadron has been updating all their member-only courses
(Seamanship, Piloting, Cruise Planning, Engine Maintenance, Instructor
Qualification (yeah, a teaching course), Marine Electronics, etc.) to
reflect the new technologies, and help accommodate modern living
schedules. Our weather course is probably about 40 hours long. I
haven't taken it yet, but I have taken 5 other courses, and can attest
to their thoroughness. I can attest to the teachers' credentials. I
know this was the way for me to go.
Gary, you got out of that course just what you put into it, just like I
did on my Squadron public course. You came away wanting more, just like
I did. If you want more, you have to go on to the next step somewhere.
I stepped up to the Squadron member-only courses, you may want to pay
someone to teach you - whatever. The point is, only so much can be
packed into the basic boating safety courses. Anyone who thinks they
need more should move on to more advanced courses somewhere.
By the way, I'm a proctor now for that old, loud, opinionated salt,
helping him out with that 20 hour public course. I have a feeling I'm
making a difference out there. If you really feel strongly enough about
it, maybe you'll be an old, loud, opinionated salt teaching a weather
course some day.

Al


Gary Warner wrote:
When I was looking to buy my first boat I started coming
to this newsgroup and decided to take a boating safety
course. I took, and passed with flying colors, the local
Coast Gurard Power Squardon course. (Or some such
name, don't have the cert handy.)

And yes, it was very useful and the people teaching it are
not to blame for anything that happened to me and I'd
certainly reccomend it.

But there are a few things that I wish they'd covered or
stressed more. I offer these now and ask others to
add to the list in hopes it will help someone else.

WEATHER: Yes, weather was presented. And looking over
the materials I see clear (but short) warnings about knowing
what the weather will be. The thing is, I'm not one normally
to worry much about weather. On land, short of a tornado
or some storm that is ALL OVER the news, one can go
out and do just about anything. The worst that happens is
you have to cancel your plans and drive back home. But
on the water things a TOTALLY different. What seems like
just a little fog that will burn off can be very dangerous. Or
what feels like a little wind on land can be something you
don't want to be out in. ~~ The course tended to be calm
and talk about how to notice weather. There were some
very calm warnings to watch the weather carefully. But it
was not stresses how much different your attitude has to
be when going out on a boat - - especially if it's onto
any large body of water and not just a small lake.

Ok - I've got two or three more to add, but I'll do 'em later.

Gary

"Al Carmon" wrote in message
...

Al,

Excellent post. Thanks. Who knows, you may be right

Al,

Great Post. I teach the Power Squadron BoatSmart course on Long Island
(where folks on the South Shore go boating to drink, while folks on the North
Shore drink while they're boating). The BoatSmart course is barely a scratch
on the surface of boater education. But there is enough info there to keep
folks safer than if they knew nothing and maybe save a life or two. It is
absolutely astounding how many people out there on the water know absolutely
positively nothing about what they are doing. BoatSmart at least gives some
people a clue. My hope with every class is that I ignite at least a few
sparks of interest in further education.

Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
often lurking - occassionally posting

Al Carmon wrote:

Gary,
Before I bought my first big boat, I spent a lot of time on news groups
like this, too. I explored the Internet for info about boats and
boating, bought some books, and after a year and a half of research,
started looking at boats.
When I started out, I thought I wanted a small houseboat. After 2 years
I ended up with a 31' motor cruiser that would handle all the local
waters (NYS Barge Canal, Lake Ontario, St. Lawrence River), was big
enough to be comfortable for me (6'2", 200 and too many pounds), and was
small enough to handle and maintain myself.
I was brought up fishing in small 14' aluminum boats on Oneida Lake, and
only had a few hours on my buddies house boat in anything larger. I had
never really needed more weather or maintenance or charting lessons,
because I was intimately knowledgeable of my narrow boating scope. Now,
my boating experience was about to expand exponentially, and I needed
direction. Back in the research days, I had come on the local Power
Squadron web site. The 20 hour "Squadron Boating Course" sounded like
what I needed, and I signed up.
The teacher was an old, loud, opinionated salt, who oft as not wouldn't
let you get a word in, and went on and on talking about his views of the
local cruising conditions, seemingly forgetting we had a course book
half the time.
I loved every minute of it. I got a 100 on the test. Neither was any
accident.
I had spent the time to go to class and do my homework, even though lots
of the course material I had read over and over already in other places
when I was doing my "research".
By the time the course was done, I was scared at how much I didn't know.
Luckily on test day there were two people from the Membership
Committee there to recruit us into the Power Squadron. I didn't know a
damn thing about the Power Squadron, but they had advanced, member only
courses I needed, and even if they were a bunch of snotty yachtty types,
I was going for it.
I should have known from the old, loud mouth salt that wasn't to be the
case. (The other reason I joined was to see if there were any more like
him - there was.) What I found was an organization just like the many
others I have belonged to. Many of the members I still haven't met
after 3 1/2 years. I may never know what their agenda is. The members
I've met are the active ones who give freely, unselfishly of their time
to help others. Our local, like ones all over the nation, graduate
100's of the boating public from safety courses every year.
Are all our local teachers boaters - yes. Are they all Anne Sullivans -
no. But they all know how to pull an often uninterested class along,
and present the required safety material to the people who want to hear.
Uninterested? Yup - NY now has a law that all PWC drivers must have
an 8 hour safety course. There was a 5 year graduated phase in, but
most waited until now, when everybody needs it. Often the class can
move only as fast as the slowest denominator.
Our local Squadron has a solid (though too few) core of teachers who do
an incredible job, going where requested, begging classroom space at
local schools, sometimes teaching 2 or 3 days a week. (just about all
our classes are broken into 2 hour weekly segments). They are all
volunteers, working for free.
The Member only courses are more than I hoped for. Not only do you get
the course information, you get to know the other Squadron students, who
have a vast range of experience to share. We're crossing Lake Ontario
this summer and going up the St. Lawrence the first time. One of my
Squadron buddies is crewing part way to show us some of the ins and outs.
The Power Squadron has been updating all their member-only courses
(Seamanship, Piloting, Cruise Planning, Engine Maintenance, Instructor
Qualification (yeah, a teaching course), Marine Electronics, etc.) to
reflect the new technologies, and help accommodate modern living
schedules. Our weather course is probably about 40 hours long. I
haven't taken it yet, but I have taken 5 other courses, and can attest
to their thoroughness. I can attest to the teachers' credentials. I
know this was the way for me to go.
Gary, you got out of that course just what you put into it, just like I
did on my Squadron public course. You came away wanting more, just like
I did. If you want more, you have to go on to the next step somewhere.
I stepped up to the Squadron member-only courses, you may want to pay
someone to teach you - whatever. The point is, only so much can be
packed into the basic boating safety courses. Anyone who thinks they
need more should move on to more advanced courses somewhere.
By the way, I'm a proctor now for that old, loud, opinionated salt,
helping him out with that 20 hour public course. I have a feeling I'm
making a difference out there. If you really feel strongly enough about
it, maybe you'll be an old, loud, opinionated salt teaching a weather
course some day.

Al

Gary Warner wrote:
When I was looking to buy my first boat I started coming
to this newsgroup and decided to take a boating safety
course. I took, and passed with flying colors, the local
Coast Gurard Power Squardon course. (Or some such
name, don't have the cert handy.)

And yes, it was very useful and the people teaching it are
not to blame for anything that happened to me and I'd
certainly reccomend it.

But there are a few things that I wish they'd covered or
stressed more. I offer these now and ask others to
add to the list in hopes it will help someone else.

WEATHER: Yes, weather was presented. And looking over
the materials I see clear (but short) warnings about knowing
what the weather will be. The thing is, I'm not one normally
to worry much about weather. On land, short of a tornado
or some storm that is ALL OVER the news, one can go
out and do just about anything. The worst that happens is
you have to cancel your plans and drive back home. But
on the water things a TOTALLY different. What seems like
just a little fog that will burn off can be very dangerous. Or
what feels like a little wind on land can be something you
don't want to be out in. ~~ The course tended to be calm
and talk about how to notice weather. There were some
very calm warnings to watch the weather carefully. But it
was not stresses how much different your attitude has to
be when going out on a boat - - especially if it's onto
any large body of water and not just a small lake.

Ok - I've got two or three more to add, but I'll do 'em later.

Gary

On Fri, 7 May 2004 10:32:40 -0400, "Gary Warner"
wrote:


WEATHER:. But
on the water things a TOTALLY different. What seems like
just a little fog that will burn off can be very dangerous. Or
what feels like a little wind on land can be something you
don't want to be out in. ~ore to add, but I'll do 'em later.

Gary


That's a valuable lesson I learned this spring. Seemed a little cold
and windy, but not too bad. I went to the lake anyway. It is a 40 mile
drive to the lake, so I was not going to go all that way and not
launch. I should have known better. My boat is a 14ft semi-v
fiberglass jon boat type thing. Extremely light. There were people out
on their nice bass boats. They were going 30+knots. I didn't think it
would be that bad.

So I get on the lake and the waves are 2ft high. Whitecaps everwhere.
The trip up to the dam was into the wind. I had to make way very
slowly or the wind would catch the front of my boat and blow it over.
I was not dressed for the weather either and felt I was freezing. I
got soaking wet from the water breaking over the bow. Water temp was
50 degrees F. I perservered for 6 hours on that lake hoping the whole
time the wind would die down. . It only got worse. Instead of 2ft
waves I had 3ft+ wave trains all the way back. I had to keep up my
speed or the waves would have washed over my transom and swamped me in
about 5 minutes. It was surreal going through those rough waters at
the exact same speed as the wind. There I was in the middle of this
lake, a half mile from land in any direction, waves 3ft high and it
seemed perfectly still. I smoked a cigarette and the smoke stayed with
me like I was in an enclosed room. It took every bit of my skill and
attention to make it back to the dock safely that day.

Sadly, another man in a jon boat of the same size did not make it home
that day. His boat was swamped and he died of hypothermia before help
could arrive. I feel lucky that it was not me. I was scared. It is
hard to scare me on the water, but this time I was wondering if I was
going to make it home.

I will never, ever go out on a "Lake Wind Advisory" day again. I won't
even go if it is breezy. I know better.