All chain rode is for old men
 

You ever been on a boat / ship?

yup, and while in a north Pacific storm in a January. No anchor(s) out.

All chain rode is for old men
 

You ever been on a boat / ship?


btw, that ship used bunker oil to fuel its engines. Ever consider using bunker
oil as the fuel for you outboard powered rowboat? ships use bunker oil, so its
gotta be better, right?

All chain rode is for old men
 

in storms?

Seen them anchored in St Martens, off Playa Car in the Yucatan, and
throughout the Galapagos.

in calm weather you can use a cinder block for an anchor, and get away with it.

All chain rode is for old men
 

And at Molikini in Maui, they use cables to the bottom.
Permanent moorings.

they also use engine blocks, tons of concrete, scrap iron, used construction
chain and/or anything else that is ungodly heavy. put a 65# CQR down along
with 300 feet of chain there and you will drag downwind until you go up on the
reefs, or mainland.

All chain rode is for old men
 

My boat has all chain rode

dummy, you ARE going to drag in a storm.

However I like it.

no doubt. it is easier to raise using an electric winch.

Requires less scope ...

only in lite winds and no waves.

....nad hasn't broke
loose since I put I more appropriate anchor on it.

haven't been in a storm yet, either. then your anchor is coming loose from the
bottom or your deck chocks are coming loose from your deck.

All chain rode is for old men
 

check it out, dum-dum.

"keep their engines running" ...ROFLMAO

otn

All chain rode is for old men
 

otm is jes tellin us he is old and lazy and if he is gets caught at anchor in a
storm he intends to die that day, for "it is God's will".

G I think you are trying to say ... they anchor in open "roads" with
a 10# Danforth on three thousand feet of dog "leash" chain.
Actually, you don't see too many of the old "Baldt" stockless anchors on
ships anymore. Generally what you now see is something which looks
similar to a heavy "Danforth".
The average number of "shots" carried, varies but 11 is a good average.
(Jax heads for google to find out the length of a shot).
G Later, dipsquat.
otn

JAXAshby wrote:
nah, they anchor in open rodes with a 10# Danforth on three thousand feet
of
dog leach chain.

way to go, dum-dum.


ROFL Trying to start another argument on a subject you know little or
nothing about, I see. ...... "keep their engines running" ...ROFLMAO

otn

All chain rode is for old men
 

But you haven't seemed to grasp the fact that navy
ships and commercial ships do not "leave their engines running" while in
port.

but they do while "at anchor". check it out.

All chain rode is for old men
 

again, all chain rode is for old men, and those afraid of the water.

In your humble opinion, of course.

DSK

well, it *is* also for people who intend for their boats to drag up on the
rocks in a storm, but they are suicidal and not necessarily old or men.

All chain rode is for old men
 

As a former ship's engineer,

DSK

you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers for a living. your knowledge of
how "ships" run is based on your prior ownership of a Hunter 19 with an
outboard.

All chain rode is for old men
 

I don't have the experience to say
what they do.

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

The only engine running is the gen set. Big gen set, but just a gen set.


of course. ships at anchor sit there waiting and waiting and waiting for a
storm to hit, their propulsion system flat dead and needing four hours to bring
up to usable speed.

All chain rode is for old men
 

boy, a bunch of worthless sailors you guys are. such short sticks you are
reduced to claiming that *your* boats ARE JUST LIKE steel freighters hundreds
of feet long, burning bunker oil, fully manned 24/7/365 with several millions
of dollars of electronics, always ready to set to sea at the first sign of bad
weather approaching.

admit it, dude/ettes, you require an all chain rode on your boats because you
are too weak to lift a 35# anchor and electric windlasses don't work so well
with nylon.

geesh, putting yourself and your boat in danger just because you are a bunch of
old farts too weak to sail anymore.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines.

When jax goes off his meds, he goes trolling.

All chain rode is for old men
 

You could have said, "All chain rode is inferior because..............." and
let it go at that. Nope. Didn't happen. Instead, anybody who disagrees with
your opinion is either a "weak old man" or "chicken of the sea."

they are. in fact, I believe ANYone who anchors on all chain (because they are
too weak and/or lazy) and who subsequently drags his boat in a storm down on
another boat injurying someone and/or doing damage to the shoreline downwind is
guilty of criminal behavior. It is JUST LIKE driving drunk. They knew better,
but didn't care.

All chain rode is for old men
 

hey squat-for-brains YOU were the one claiming that all-chain rode is
appropriate for a sailboat because cruiseships use all chain.

using all chain on a sailboat is as criminal as driving a car drunk. you know
better but you are just too lazy to do better.

A ship's engines are not running when at anchor, and I believe YOU
were the dipsquat that brought "ships" into the mix with your stupid,
uneducated statement that they keep their engines running.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
so, *why* are you comparing a ship manned 24/7, with engines running, to a
recreational vessel?

again, all chain rode is for old men, and those afraid of the water.


G I think you are trying to say ... they anchor in open "roads" with
a 10# Danforth on three thousand feet of dog "leash" chain.
Actually, you don't see too many of the old "Baldt" stockless anchors on
ships anymore. Generally what you now see is something which looks
similar to a heavy "Danforth".
The average number of "shots" carried, varies but 11 is a good average.
(Jax heads for google to find out the length of a shot).
G Later, dipsquat.
otn

JAXAshby wrote:

nah, they anchor in open rodes with a 10# Danforth on three thousand feet

of

dog leach chain.

way to go, dum-dum.



ROFL Trying to start another argument on a subject you know little or
nothing about, I see. ...... "keep their engines running" ...ROFLMAO

otn

All chain rode is for old men
 

skyscrapers are made of steel beams and glass panels. does THAT mean a one car
garage at home should be as well?

No.

recklessly endangering human lives by driving a car drunk is a criminal
offense. does that mean that recklessly endangering human lives by anchoring
with a all chain rode you KNOW will pull loose and/or break loose the deck
chocks in strong winds and waves is a criminal offense as well?

Yup.

me, and 99.99876% of the world's population.


........are not aware of the manner in which
military and commercial ships lay at anchor.

All chain rode would be an overkill for your Sunfsh, however. You are
certainly
correct
about that.

All chain rode is for old men
 

JAXAshby wrote:
using all chain on a sailboat is as criminal as driving a car drunk.

A classic Jaxism. Thanks! We need more humor in this newsgroup.

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

That is why (i.e. I am weak and old) I'm considering an all chain rode.... as
should all
boaters with the capability of a windlass and limited locker space...

are you willing to go to jail for injurying someone and/or damaging shoreline
when your boat anchor breaks loose and/or you tear your deck chocks loose due
to strong winds and waves?

dude, you use the same justification for you criminal behavior anchoring as did
drunk drivers 20 years ago.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Some chain is stronger than some...... uh, (sic) rope....

logging chain IS stronger than window sash cord, but that is not relevant to
this discussion.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor --

Illogical.


only to the abbizmally ignorant. FULLY understood, however, by the oil rig
crowd and anyone else with even a smattering of understanding.

just for kicks, ask yourself what happens to a boat that is *chained* to a
dock.

All chain rode is for old men
 

or break deck chocks loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.


So we could argue that either dragging the anchor and hitting the
rocks or breaking deck chocks is better.

no, you anchor knowing full well that you REQUIRE *substantial* shock absorbing
capability in your rode should the wind and waves pipe up. check mil specs if
you wish.

NObody chains a boat to a dock. dumb, dumb, dumb. same as chaining your boat
to a rock on the bottom.

All chain rode is for old men
 

just for kicks, ask yourself what happens to a boat that is *chained* to a
dock.

Eventually the repo man shows up and tows it away? :-)

Seriously, If you use a long enough, and heavy enough chain here's what will
happen..............

The wind or current might set the boat off the dock, beginning a process that
will attempt to pull the chain into a horizontal position between the dock and
the boat. The unsupported weight in the middle of the chain is exerting equal
lateral force on the boat and the dock. The dock isn't going anyhwhere (hope
hope hope) so something has to give in response to that force. What gives, is
before the limit of the chain is reached the increasing weight of the belly in
the chain either stabilizes the set off of the boat or causes it to drift back
toward the fixed end at the dock.

All chain rode is for old men
 

recklessly endangering human lives by driving a car drunk is a criminal
offense. does that mean that recklessly endangering human lives by anchoring
with a all chain rode you KNOW will pull loose and/or break loose the deck
chocks in strong winds and waves is a criminal offense as well?

Yup.


The situation you describe will not happen if the anchor and rode are suitable
for conditions, if there is adequate scope for depth and conditions, and so
forth.

That's a long way from *knowing* the anchor is going to pull out or bust up the
boat.

All chain rode is for old men
 

just for kicks, ask yourself what happens to a boat that is *chained* to a
dock.


Gould 0738 wrote:
Eventually the repo man shows up and tows it away? :-)

And you wouldn't have to worry about chafe. Of course, the marina might
take a dim view of your dockchain sawing through their pilings, but hey,
you're paying them right?

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

admit it, dude/ettes, you require an all chain rode on your boats because you
are too weak to lift a 35# anchor and electric windlasses don't work so well
with nylon.

A windlass wouldn't work very well on your sailboard, so that might explain why
you are unaware that with proper technique nylon rope hauls very nicely indeed
with a windlass. Usually, two or three turns around the drum is sufficient. An
extra wrap or so will do the trick if it is not.

One does not (should not) use the windlass to break the anchor free.

With proper technique, the nylon will haul
without any problems at all.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Don't have to, dipsquat .... been there done that.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
check it out, dum-dum.


"keep their engines running" ...ROFLMAO

otn

All chain rode is for old men
 

Once again .... NO THEY DON'T.

Now, so you understand .... IF it's a steam ship, after anchoring, they
will "spin" the turbines for a while and then put them on the "jacking"
gear to cool them, unless it's to be a short anchoring (in which case
they'll "spin" them to keep them warm). Naturally the boilers remain on
line since they are used for Hotel services.
Diesel electric: Depending on the setup, if the generators for the
engine are exclusive to the main propulsion, they will be secured.(same
with GT)
Straight GT: Shut down.
Direct drive diesel: (majority of larger ships) SHUT DOWN, PERIOD.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
But you haven't seemed to grasp the fact that navy
ships and commercial ships do not "leave their engines running" while in
port.


but they do while "at anchor". check it out.

All chain rode is for old men
 

All chain rode is for old men
 

Never talk to jax like he is a man, he is Spincter boy, has nothing nice to say
that I have ever seen.

All chain rode is for old men
 

R you forgetting scope?

All chain rode is for old men
 

Old men too weak to lift 100 feet of nylon rope plus an anchor insist on all
chain rode -- claiming it is safer -- because chain fits through an electric
windlass with less effort than tailing a rope on an electric windlass.

my mixed rode turned out to be a
nightmare to use with my windlass,

but ....

.... mixed rode has shock absorbing capability and all chain does not once the
wind picks up. At that point, wave action can put SERIOUS shock loads on the
chain, the anchor and the deck chocks.

Heavy seas require more scope

more scope does nothing at all to reduce shock loads once the winds have picked
up enough to pull the chain tight. That is the nature of the mathematics
involved.

and the use of a snubber to provide the
shock absorbing characteristics necessary to prevent tackle damage.

a short snubber don't hack it. nylon rope will stretch 3% to 5% before
starting to deform and an adequate snubber for windy conditions can require 10
feet - or more -- "shock load" movement room. five or ten feet of snubber will
break in short order.

All chain rode is for old men
 

shen, as usual, your response addresses nothing of the issue. you are drinking
too much, again.

From: (Shen44)
Date: 4/19/2004 6:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.

Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well
stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally
inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat
holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.

Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many
similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on
one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a Danforth
....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you need
to
take?

Shen

All chain rode is for old men
 

over the (k)nee, there is a village in Arkansas looking for you.

Just as Jax left the discussion regarding propwalk, because it
exceeded his knowledge, he has quickly left this discussion, since his
limited knowledge/experience on the subject has become quickly obvious.
However, I applaud his effort to try and get this NG into discussions
other than the various idiot's political rants.
(Only assholes and politicians find politics worth argument..... and
only idiots interject those arguments into subjects with no relationship).

Off the soapbox.......

otn

Shen44 wrote:
Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.


Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to
keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well
stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally

inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat
holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.


Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many
similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power
in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on
one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a
Danforth
....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you
need to
take?

Shen

All chain rode is for old men
 

Are you suggesting that large ships should use rope to anchor in heavy
weather?

no, I am not. I *am* stating flat out that any talk of how steel freighters
and cruise ship manned 24/7/365 and anchored in beneign conditions is specious
in the context of anchoring recreational sailboats in windy conditions. It is
the type of talk as might be expected from old men too weak, too lazy to lift a
35# anchor.

All chain rode is for old men
 

a 3 foot nylon snubber will stretch about an inch or two before it starts to
permanently deform. a thirty foot snubber will stretch about twelve inches
before permanently deforming.

In windy conditions where an all chain rode is pulled tight, wave action can
cause the boat to jerk solidly against the chain with a boat movement due to
waves of upwards of five feet or more. Under those conditions, your anchor is
coming loose or your deck chocks are breaking off.

NO body chains a boat to a dock and NObody chains a boat to a rock on shore.
Why then would anyone chain a boat to a rock under water?

Why? Because they are too weak and too old and too lazy to lift a 35# anchor.

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor -- or break deck chocks loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.



Hence why ones uses a snubber with an all chain rode....

-al-

All chain rode is for old men
 

bject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/12/2004 04:34 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

shen, as usual, your response addresses nothing of the issue. you are
drinking
too much, again.


So you're saying a 26' Contessa with all chain rode has nothing to do with the
discussion....
That a ship at anchor in windy conditions is totally different from a small
boat at anchor in windy conditions.....

At any rate, you seem to be stating that once you've anchored, you're now stuck
with whatever conditions arise and that you would (as expected) be dumb enough
not to make any changes if the loads on your chain/anchor became great enough
to cause dragging or damage to chocks/cleats/bitts on you boat.
There are a number of possibilities:

1. Pay attention to weather reports. If the forecast indicate you may exceed
your ground tackle limits for your particular anchorage, you should be planning
in advance for various variables.

2. A solution may be as simple as increasing the scope of chain.

3. You may need to set a second anchor, the likelyhood of it being all chain on
a small boat will be slim.

4. "Steam" against the anchor rode, to reduce strain (neither fun nor easy)

5. Heave anchor and get the hell outa Dodge!

Only an idiot such as yourself, would just sit there with his anchor out and
spout math equations for stress and holler "I told ya so's".
No system is perfect and all have limitations that need to be addressed.
All you've done here is point out another boating subject you have little
experience with or knowledge of.....

Shen

All chain rode is for old men
 

Real men haul up their all-chain rode
and 200 lb anchor by hand.


no, real men use a proper anchor system.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Man your obnoxious.

Oh? Why is that? Because I can lift a 35# anchor?

My, my, my.

All chain rode is for old men
 

I have to disagree, Chain Rode serves a very important purpose,
espially in Sandy or Muddy Sea Floors. The intent of the Chain is to
keep the Anchor set, of course this can also be done with Weights on
the Rode. This has been the salvation of any Boat that went to Sea in
a Hurricane and Moored, rather than have the Surge pile thier vessel
up on the shore with all the remnants of the Marina.

Sorry, but you are wrong. NObody chains a boat to a dock, and NObody chains a
boat to a rock onshore. The ONLY people who chain a boat to rock underwater do
so because they are too weak and too old to lift an anchor. An anchor chained
to a rock underwater WILL break out and/or break loose the deck chocks when the
wind picks up and the waves start. Everyone knows that but weak and lazy old
men.

All chain rode is for old men
 

dummy, you ARE going to drag in a storm.

Prove it.

the oil rig people believe it, why don't you?

Am I supposed to "be a man" and pull the damned
thing up with my back everytime?

get your belly down in size to less than your chest and your ass down in size
to less than your waist and you won't have that problem.