All chain rode is for old men
 

Requires less scope ...

only in lite winds and no waves.

You make this **** up, don't you?

it is part of the US Mil Spec.

For a good reason.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Don't have to, dipsquat .... been there done that.

otn

no, you have not.

All chain rode is for old men
 

a.) they do, and

b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

anchoring on all chain is done by weak old men unable to lift a 35# anchor.

Once again .... NO THEY DON'T.

Now, so you understand .... IF it's a steam ship, after anchoring, they
will "spin" the turbines for a while and then put them on the "jacking"
gear to cool them, unless it's to be a short anchoring (in which case
they'll "spin" them to keep them warm). Naturally the boilers remain on
line since they are used for Hotel services.
Diesel electric: Depending on the setup, if the generators for the
engine are exclusive to the main propulsion, they will be secured.(same
with GT)
Straight GT: Shut down.
Direct drive diesel: (majority of larger ships) SHUT DOWN, PERIOD.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
But you haven't seemed to grasp the fact that navy
ships and commercial ships do not "leave their engines running" while in
port.


but they do while "at anchor". check it out.

All chain rode is for old men
 

With proper technique, the nylon will haul
without any problems at all.


not according to those clowns who endanger human lives by using all chain
rodes.

All chain rode is for old men
 

endangering the lives of other people because one is too lazy to lift a 35#
anchor is in fact criminal behavior.

thrity years ago people *claimed* that driving drunk was a god given right. To
this day people claim that driving a boat drunk is a god given right.

Each is a criminal act.

As is endangering the lives of other people by knowingly anchoring in fashion
that causes a boat to come loose when the winds and waves pick up.
using all chain on a sailboat is as criminal as driving a car drunk.

A classic Jaxism. Thanks! We need more humor in this newsgroup.

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

The situation you describe will not happen if the anchor and rode are
suitable
for conditions, if there is adequate scope for depth and conditions, and so
forth.


you somehow have managed to make the claim above that you are too stupid to
understand the discussion. All chain WILL be in adequate for ALL "normal"
scope conditions when the wind and waves pick up. ALL.

yo-yo, nobody was talking about 40 to 1 scopes. knock it off.

All chain rode is for old men
 

There is no possible linkage between using chain and ripping deck
chocks loose.

bull****. At least those who build offshore oil rigs knows it is bull****.

All chain rode is for old men
 

The weight of the chain (and ensuing swag) acts as a
shock absorber.

bull****. ever hear the term "bar tight"?

All chain rode is for old men
 

The weight of the chain (and ensuing swag) acts as a
shock absorber.

Oh? Ever have a boat with less windage that you AND two (count 'em, TWO) major
size CQRS (*each* twice the size of your anchor) and "normal" scope of all
chain pull down on you in 20 knots of wind gusting to 25 knots, when you were
on a proper rode?

I have.

All chain rode is for old men
 

so ... why did you bring it up? the discussion was about the unethical
behavior of weak and/or lazy men unwilling to lift an anchor.


Some chain is stronger than some...... uh, (sic) rope....

logging chain IS stronger than window sash cord, but that is not relevant to
this discussion.

I merely pointed out the meaninglessness of your comment. Most
anchors are the weak link in the rode. My 23 foot boat uses a 13#
anchor rated at 1800#.... much lower than either chain or line.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

All chain rode is for old men
 

Seriously, If you use a long enough, and heavy enough chain here's what will
happen..............


[snip the lazy b/s]

NObody chains a boat to a dock. Not even the US Navy with its warships. They
rope. Always.

All chain rode is for old men
 

the marina might
take a dim view of your dockchain sawing through their pilings

in wind and waves, the chain will tear the decks chock and/or the dock chocks
loose. At least that is the experience of the US Navy.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Next time I take my oil rig out for a spin..

you might want to check out just how the oil rigs are anchored. There is a
simiplified, 380 page overview of catenaries (in the context of oil rigs)
available for a mere $1,015, plus shipping and handling.

All chain rode is for old men
 

are we anchoring at the dock? You
equate anchoring with tying up to a dock? Reaching again, aren't we?


so, all chain to the dock is NOT okay, and all chain to a rock onshore is also
NOT okay but all chain to a rock on the bottom is?

Why is that?

All chain rode is for old men
 

Why, then, pray tell, do they make anchor chain, chain windlasses, and
hardware specifically designed to attach chain to anchors?


because fat, weak, lazy old men will buy them.Why, then, pray tell, do they
make anchor chain, chain windlasses, and
hardware specifically designed to attach chain to anchors?

All chain rode is for old men
 

Is everyone misguided, save you?

my opinion is no different that the physicists, US Mil Spec and the oil rig
designers.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Please tell us why a chain with
appropriate score has no holding or shock absorbing power....

it is taught in freshman physics class. Rather simple, too.

No physics class? No capability to understand physics? Well then, think what
happens when you chain a boat to a dock.

All chain rode is for old men
 

You
might want to throw in a few sentences, too, why all larger vessels
use chain.....

simple.

a.) the chain will run through their hoists, and

b.) they never weather a storm at anchor.

All chain rode is for old men
 

R you forgetting scope?

yo-yo, tie 375 feet of chain to a rock on one side of a ravine and you pickup
truck on the other side, the slack going down thirty or forty feet. put the
truck in gear and step on the gas.

wanna guess what is just about to happen?

now, chain the pickup out for a boat, and think again.

All chain rode is for old men
 

now, chain the pickup out for a boat, and think again.

compare the drive efficiency of tires on pavement with a prop in the water and
then think again.

Compare the friction between the vehicle and the road vs. a vessel and the
water, and then think again.

Compare the function of an achor, (to hold a vessel in place when not underway)
to your example of applying extreme amounts of throttle.

Then, think again.

All chain rode is for old men
 

thrity years ago people *claimed* that driving drunk was a god given right.
To
this day people claim that driving a boat drunk is a god given right.

How about typing under the influence?
Is that a god-given right as well?

All chain rode is for old men
 

JAXAshby wrote:
it is part of the US Mil Spec.

For a good reason.

Umm, hey Jax, hate to bother you with a trivial detail, but can you cite
that Mil-Spec?

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

Umm, hey Jax, hate to bother you with a trivial detail, but can you cite
that Mil-Spec?

DSK

dougie, I am not going to once again tell you how to tie your shoes. It is
easier to find than it is for a healthy man to lift a 0.5# anchor.

All chain rode is for old men
 

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gould you can NOT possibly be THAT stupid.

Can you?

now, chain the pickup out for a boat, and think again.

compare the drive efficiency of tires on pavement with a prop in the water
and
then think again.

Compare the friction between the vehicle and the road vs. a vessel and the
water, and then think again.

Compare the function of an achor, (to hold a vessel in place when not
underway)
to your example of applying extreme amounts of throttle.

Then, think again.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Umm, hey Jax, hate to bother you with a trivial detail, but can you cite
that Mil-Spec?


JAXAshby wrote:
dougie, I am not going to once again tell you how to tie your shoes. It is
easier to find than it is for a healthy man to lift a 0.5# anchor.

In other words, you made it up.

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

In other words, you made it up.

DSK

not in the slightest.

All chain rode is for old men
 

a.) the chain will run through their hoists, and

ditto most windlasses

dodo, ships are ships while sailboats are sailboat. comparing the two is like
comparing chrome and glass skyscrapers to single car garages.

now, *IF* you really want us to believe you can't tell the difference between a
ship and sailboat just tell us you are too drunk to know the difference.
otherwise, keep to the discussion.

All chain rode is for old men
 

b.) they never weather a storm at anchor.

most recreational boaters don't either.... and if they did, hopefully
they would have sense enough to put a snubber on each anchor line.

a "storm" strong enough to jerk and all chain rode loose from the bottom on a
for an anchored recreational sailboat is not even 20 knots of wind and 3 foot
waves.

but thanks for enlightening us, for you have told us *you* are always tied to
the dock at the end of the day, so you buy 300# of chain just so you can brag
about buying 300# of chain to weight down the bow of you boat.

All chain rode is for old men
 

gene tells us *he* thinks lifting a 35# anchor is too much for him physically
and therefore he is happy to endanger the lives of others by his reckless use
of all chain rode in windy wavey conditions.

way to go genne.

boy, a bunch of worthless sailors you guys are. such short sticks you are
reduced to claiming that *your* boats ARE JUST LIKE steel freighters
hundreds
of feet long, burning bunker oil, fully manned 24/7/365 with several
millions
of dollars of electronics, always ready to set to sea at the first sign of
bad
weather approaching.

admit it, dude/ettes, you require an all chain rode on your boats because
you
are too weak to lift a 35# anchor and electric windlasses don't work so well
with nylon.

geesh, putting yourself and your boat in danger just because you are a bunch
of
old farts too weak to sail anymore.


Helluva statement from a guy that posted this a little over a year
ago:

http://tinyurl.com/2a96z


--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

All chain rode is for old men
 

In other words, you made it up.


JAXAshby wrote:
not in the slightest.

Well, let's see it then. Put up or shut up.

It just so happens that I have ready access to a library of Mil-Specs.
There are many that pertain to anchor chain, but they are all concerned
with coatings & strength and such.

Wouldn't you like to prove me wrong once, Jax, instead of the other way
around? Go ahead, just post the number of that spec.... if it exists...

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

Jax asbury sayz:

This last one is something I'm going to stop with this message, for there is
nothing to be learned at all -- no viable information -- from usenet groups for
me (as opposed to various other sailing related BB's). usenet groups, for me,
have become like room temperature coffee, all adreneline with no nutrition.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Jax must have read a fictional novel about oil rigs..

All chain rode is for old men
 

score jax 0 (as usual) gould 2.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Florida Keyz wrote:
Jax must have read a fictional novel about oil rigs..


Ahh, yes, one of those fictional novels, as opposed, of course, to a
non-fictional novel. Reminds me of the heady days of In Cold Blood
installments in the New "Yorker magazine.

rec.boats...one of bastions of semi-literacy.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Jax said"This last one is something I'm going to stop with this message, for
there is
nothing to be learned at all -- no viable information -- from usenet groups for
me (as opposed to various other sailing related BB's). usenet groups, for me,
have become like room temperature coffee, all adreneline with no nutrition.?

All chain rode is for old men
 

Florida Keyz wrote:

Jax said"This last one is something I'm going to stop with this message, for
there is
nothing to be learned at all -- no viable information -- from usenet groups for
me (as opposed to various other sailing related BB's). usenet groups, for me,
have become like room temperature coffee, all adreneline with no nutrition.?


He must have been reading your posts, keyz, because none of your posts
add content.

All chain rode is for old men
 

dougies, you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers. you no more have
access to all the mil specs than you have an understanding of freshman physics.

go look it up yourself, either that or just keep on telling everyone it is okay
to endanger others lives by your reckless anchoring behavior.

In other words, you made it up.


JAXAshby wrote:
not in the slightest.

Well, let's see it then. Put up or shut up.

It just so happens that I have ready access to a library of Mil-Specs.
There are many that pertain to anchor chain, but they are all concerned
with coatings & strength and such.

Wouldn't you like to prove me wrong once, Jax, instead of the other way
around? Go ahead, just post the number of that spec.... if it exists...

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

$1,015, plus shipping and handling is a *novel*?

Jax must have read a fictional novel about oil rigs..

All chain rode is for old men
 

floriz shows my point thusly:

Jax said"This last one is something I'm going to stop with this message, for
there is
nothing to be learned at all -- no viable information -- from usenet groups
for
me (as opposed to various other sailing related BB's). usenet groups, for
me,
have become like room temperature coffee, all adreneline with no nutrition.?

All chain rode is for old men
 

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gould you can NOT possibly be THAT stupid.

Can you?

Your comparison between hooking a chain to a pickup truck (and then putting the
truck in gear to pull the slack out of the chain) and anchoring is flawed.

I'll waste the time required to explain just why. It won't make any difference
to you, of course, but there might be a person momentarily taken in by your
blustering bull squat who needs to be reassured that
if Ass and Teakettle both appeared on the chart, you'd draw a rhumbline to
Teakettle
but set a course to Ass.

Two practical, demonstrable, counter arguments.

1: You suggest an experiment where a cahin is hooked to a rock on one side of a
crevasse, a quantity slack is dropped into the valley, and the other end of the
cahin hooked to a truck on the side opposite the rock. You postulate that if
the
truck is put into gear the chain would be pulled straight. There are instances
where this would not be true, (perhaps a monstrous chain with links that
weighed
150 pounds apiece), but rather than counter your absurd example with an even
more absurd exception, we'll presume that the chain in use would also be
suitable for anchoring a small or medium size pleasure
vessel.

a) If you repeat the experiment with an all rope rode, or a mixed rope and
chain rode,
how would the results be different? Most assuredly, they would not.

b) what would happen if you attempt to start the great chain pull in 4th gear,
rather than first? Results would be less predictable.

2: Next time you're anywhere near a marina, try this experiment.

First, while still in the parking lot, lean as hard as you can into any 4,000
pound truck or SUV that might be on hand. Put your entire body weight against
any portion of the truck you choose- front bumper, rear bumper, passenger
door, driver's door, you name it. Make a note of just exactly how far you
manage to move that vehicle off the exact spot it occupied when the pushing and
grunting began. I could tell you what that distance that is going to be, but I
wouldn't want to spoil your opportunity to learn by doing.

Then, find somebody to let you on the dock. Rather than a 4,000 pound boat,
look for something that is more likely to weigh maybe 60,000 pounds. Many 55 or
60-foot motoryachts can tip the scales in that general area. The exact weight
of the boat isn't essential, but select something that is 10, 15, or 20 times
heavier than the pickup truck in the parking lot to fully appreciate the lesson
you can learn from the experiment.

With a boat selected, put your weight against it. The same force that could not
budge a pickup truck will move a boat rather nicely.

To get full benefit of this experiment, find a vessel with plenty of slack in
the lines and continue leaning against the hull as it moves away from the dock.
Why settle for a single physics lesson when two can be learned at once. :-)

That much lesser force is all that is required to move a boat. The force can be
applied by wind, of course. An anchor works because the force attempting to
keep the boat secured to a fixed point exceeds the force attempting to remove
it.
The additional weight of a chain rode, properly sized for the vessel and the
anticipated conditions, creates a larger belly in the rode. Mariners have
understood the benefits of gravitational force on anchor rodes for many
hundreds of years. Consider a kellet.......doesn't change the characteristic of
the rode but increases the effect of gravity.