All chain rode is for old men
 

JAXAshby wrote:
a.) they do, and

LOL We could keep this "yes"/"no" up for months, but since I doubt
you've ever sailed on a ship, how's bout showing us where you got this
ridiculous idea that ships keep their engines running while at anchor.

b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

On the contrary. The same things apply. The main difference is relative
size.

otn


anchoring on all chain is done by weak old men unable to lift a 35# anchor.


Once again .... NO THEY DON'T.

Now, so you understand .... IF it's a steam ship, after anchoring, they
will "spin" the turbines for a while and then put them on the "jacking"
gear to cool them, unless it's to be a short anchoring (in which case
they'll "spin" them to keep them warm). Naturally the boilers remain on
line since they are used for Hotel services.
Diesel electric: Depending on the setup, if the generators for the
engine are exclusive to the main propulsion, they will be secured.(same
with GT)
Straight GT: Shut down.
Direct drive diesel: (majority of larger ships) SHUT DOWN, PERIOD.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:

But you haven't seemed to grasp the fact that navy
ships and commercial ships do not "leave their engines running" while in
port.


but they do while "at anchor". check it out.

All chain rode is for old men
 

JAXAshby wrote:
There is no possible linkage between using chain and ripping deck
chocks loose.


bull****. At least those who build offshore oil rigs knows it is bull****.


G It appears that since you could not discuss ships anchoring systems,
you've done some googling and decided you can "snow" everyone with this
latest troll by changing to oil rigs.
Show us what oil rigs use and what the difference is .... or didn't you
get that far....

otn

BTW Do you know what a "chock" is?

All chain rode is for old men
 

JAXAshby wrote:

dougies, you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers.

I think my employer is going to be *very* surprised to hear that. You
are confused again.

... you no more have
access to all the mil specs than you have an understanding of freshman physics.

Actually, I have written a couple of Mil-Specs. Check with NAVSEA and NIST.

As for understanding physics, let's go back to the old hull speed
discussion. I understand that you have published several keynote papers
in this field?


go look it up yourself

Sorry, I have better things to do. See ya in the funny papers, Jax

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/12/2004 21:05 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Is everyone misguided, save you?

my opinion is no different that the physicists, US Mil Spec and the oil rig
designers.


Jax You wouldn't know an oil rig from an oil platform, much less how they
anchor them.
Obviously, just another Jaxtroll, wherein he knows not of what he speaks, but
insist on throwing in his usual "physicists" and "US Mil Spec" smokescreens in
a vain attempt to bamboozle the unwary.
Are we now to add "Oil Rig Designer" to your imaginary knowledge base?

Shen

Oh yeah, almost forgot ..... no matter how many times you try and say otherwise
..... ships do not run their engines when at anchor in a open roadstead, except
in extrodinary conditions (in which case, if they could, they'd be gone).

All chain rode is for old men
 

gene, would you mind very much not posting when you are drunk? wait until a
day or two from now and then try to rewrite your post below:

b.) they never weather a storm at anchor.

most recreational boaters don't either.... and if they did, hopefully
they would have sense enough to put a snubber on each anchor line.

a "storm" strong enough to jerk and all chain rode loose from the bottom on
a
for an anchored recreational sailboat is not even 20 knots of wind and 3
foot
waves.

but thanks for enlightening us, for you have told us *you* are always tied
to
the dock at the end of the day, so you buy 300# of chain just so you can
brag
about buying 300# of chain to weight down the bow of you boat.

Nice grammar, JAX. You must cut have cut English to go to two physics
classes.

Anyway, my boat is poorly suited to be an overnighter, so why wouldn't
I tie up every night? I bought the boat to fish with, not cruise.....
did you think you were posting this to rec.boats.cruising?

Wrong again, I haven't bought 300# of chain, but I have and continue
to seriously considered it because it stores much better than plastic
and is much less prone to pull out of sand with (necessarily) short
rodes.

I use 30 feet of chain and 270 feet of 1/2 line (uh, that's rope, for
you, I guess). Since you are the rec.boats resident math champion,
figure this out and see how much rode you would use..... in the
waters off of Southern NC where I boat, most bottom fishing is done in
85 feet of water. You think 300 feet of rode is excessive? I
certainly don't have room for 600 feet of 1/2 nylon rode.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

All chain rode is for old men
 

On a more serious note, though, if we have this many people at risk
from such an avoidable, careless, and demonstrably unscientific
practice, maybe somebody should get a law passed carrying stiff
penalties.

the law already exists. it is called reckless endangerment, and it is the law
that was originally used to get drunk drivers off the road.

All chain rode is for old men
 

dougies tells us he don't know from squat but he *IS* sure that he is not in
danger because he is never on the water in winds above 6 knots thusly:

dougies, you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers.

I think my employer is going to be *very* surprised to hear that. You
are confused again.

... you no more have
access to all the mil specs than you have an understanding of freshman
physics.

Actually, I have written a couple of Mil-Specs. Check with NAVSEA and NIST.

As for understanding physics, let's go back to the old hull speed
discussion. I understand that you have published several keynote papers
in this field?


go look it up yourself

Sorry, I have better things to do. See ya in the funny papers, Jax

DSK

All chain rode is for old men
 

Gosh, you are such a jerk there jax!

All chain rode is for old men
 

goudie, you shore do stretch yourself out
faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyone the ordinary just to prove you
don't understand sometime understood by millions of 18 year old boys across the
land in freshman physics classes.

there is a simplified 380 page summary of catenaries out there available to the
beginning oil rig engineer. It only costs $1,015, plus shipping and handling.
I suggest you spend two weeks pay for you and get a copy.

you are totally lost on this subject. totally.

either that or you are trying hope against hope to prove that you are not
really a lazy, weak old man when you are.

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gould you can NOT possibly be THAT stupid.

Can you?

Your comparison between hooking a chain to a pickup truck (and then putting
the
truck in gear to pull the slack out of the chain) and anchoring is flawed.

I'll waste the time required to explain just why. It won't make any
difference
to you, of course, but there might be a person momentarily taken in by your
blustering bull squat who needs to be reassured that
if Ass and Teakettle both appeared on the chart, you'd draw a rhumbline to
Teakettle
but set a course to Ass.

Two practical, demonstrable, counter arguments.

1: You suggest an experiment where a cahin is hooked to a rock on one side of
a
crevasse, a quantity slack is dropped into the valley, and the other end of
the
cahin hooked to a truck on the side opposite the rock. You postulate that if
the
truck is put into gear the chain would be pulled straight. There are
instances
where this would not be true, (perhaps a monstrous chain with links that
weighed
150 pounds apiece), but rather than counter your absurd example with an even
more absurd exception, we'll presume that the chain in use would also be
suitable for anchoring a small or medium size pleasure
vessel.

a) If you repeat the experiment with an all rope rode, or a mixed rope and
chain rode,
how would the results be different? Most assuredly, they would not.

b) what would happen if you attempt to start the great chain pull in 4th
gear,
rather than first? Results would be less predictable.

2: Next time you're anywhere near a marina, try this experiment.

First, while still in the parking lot, lean as hard as you can into any 4,000
pound truck or SUV that might be on hand. Put your entire body weight against
any portion of the truck you choose- front bumper, rear bumper, passenger
door, driver's door, you name it. Make a note of just exactly how far you
manage to move that vehicle off the exact spot it occupied when the pushing
and
grunting began. I could tell you what that distance that is going to be, but
I
wouldn't want to spoil your opportunity to learn by doing.

Then, find somebody to let you on the dock. Rather than a 4,000 pound boat,
look for something that is more likely to weigh maybe 60,000 pounds. Many 55
or
60-foot motoryachts can tip the scales in that general area. The exact weight
of the boat isn't essential, but select something that is 10, 15, or 20 times
heavier than the pickup truck in the parking lot to fully appreciate the
lesson
you can learn from the experiment.

With a boat selected, put your weight against it. The same force that could
not
budge a pickup truck will move a boat rather nicely.

To get full benefit of this experiment, find a vessel with plenty of slack in
the lines and continue leaning against the hull as it moves away from the
dock.
Why settle for a single physics lesson when two can be learned at once. :-)

That much lesser force is all that is required to move a boat. The force can
be
applied by wind, of course. An anchor works because the force attempting to
keep the boat secured to a fixed point exceeds the force attempting to remove
it.
The additional weight of a chain rode, properly sized for the vessel and the
anticipated conditions, creates a larger belly in the rode. Mariners have
understood the benefits of gravitational force on anchor rodes for many
hundreds of years. Consider a kellet.......doesn't change the characteristic
of
the rode but increases the effect of gravity.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Hey Jax, shouldn't you at LEAST be a boater first??

All chain rode is for old men
 

b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

On the contrary. The same things apply. The main difference is relative
size.

otn

give it up, over the knee. every last post you make show you are uttterly
without understanding of this subject.

All chain rode is for old men
 

over the knee, I understood this simple **** before I got out of high school.
I assure you that millions of 18 year old boys across the land understand it as
well, every year. it really is simple.

There is no possible linkage between using chain and ripping deck
chocks loose.


bull****. At least those who build offshore oil rigs knows it is bull****.


G It appears that since you could not discuss ships anchoring systems,
you've done some googling and decided you can "snow" everyone with this
latest troll by changing to oil rigs.
Show us what oil rigs use and what the difference is .... or didn't you
get that far....

otn

BTW Do you know what a "chock" is?

All chain rode is for old men
 

All chain rode is for old men
 

As per usual, Jax hasn't a clue.
He's posted not one useful or verifiable response or useful bit of
information on the subject at hand.
Let's see .... Jax... you don't know enough about navigation to pass a
basic Power Squadron test on said subject .... you don't know the Rules
of the Road..... You know nothing about anchoring a boat, ship, oilrig,
etc., and haven't a clue about "prop walk" or boat handling under
power.... i.e., you are a rank amateur of the lowest degree, but a troll
of the mediocre degree.
Do us all a favor and go back to sucking on your bottle of cheapo
rum.....either that, or try sobering up for a few days so that what few
brain cell you have left will realize you've embarrassed your stupid
ass, again, enough to realize it's time to go back into hiding for 6-7
months.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

On the contrary. The same things apply. The main difference is relative
size.

otn


give it up, over the knee. every last post you make show you are uttterly
without understanding of this subject.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Jax .... You never LEARNED, much less UNDERSTOOD, ANY of this ****, as
is obvious but the stupid rants/ trolls, you post on this and/or any
other NG.
I don't care if you're 10 or 60 ..... you're an ignorant idiot whose
probably still trying to figure out a simple method to tie his shoes.

otn



JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee, I understood this simple **** before I got out of high school.
I assure you that millions of 18 year old boys across the land understand it as
well, every year. it really is simple.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/13/2004 17:50 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(Shen44) posted:

[ ]


G Ole idiot Jax responded as expected.
I see you can't answer any question, whether directly or indirectly asked.
In case you haven't figured it out, dipsquat, the only reason anyone responds
to your stupid post, is to be sure that those with less knowledge than you are
not mislead by your idiotic nonsense.

Shen

All chain rode is for old men
 

Shen44 wrote:

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/13/2004 17:50 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(Shen44) posted:

[ ]



G Ole idiot Jax responded as expected.
I see you can't answer any question, whether directly or indirectly asked.
In case you haven't figured it out, dipsquat, the only reason anyone responds
to your stupid post, is to be sure that those with less knowledge than you are
not mislead by your idiotic nonsense.

Shen



Ah, yes...the Skipper Syndrome.

All chain rode is for old men
 

over the knee, go sleep it off. you have been over-served.

As per usual, Jax hasn't a clue.
He's posted not one useful or verifiable response or useful bit of
information on the subject at hand.
Let's see .... Jax... you don't know enough about navigation to pass a
basic Power Squadron test on said subject .... you don't know the Rules
of the Road..... You know nothing about anchoring a boat, ship, oilrig,
etc., and haven't a clue about "prop walk" or boat handling under
power.... i.e., you are a rank amateur of the lowest degree, but a troll
of the mediocre degree.
Do us all a favor and go back to sucking on your bottle of cheapo
rum.....either that, or try sobering up for a few days so that what few
brain cell you have left will realize you've embarrassed your stupid
ass, again, enough to realize it's time to go back into hiding for 6-7
months.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

On the contrary. The same things apply. The main difference is relative
size.

otn


give it up, over the knee. every last post you make show you are uttterly
without understanding of this subject.

All chain rode is for old men
 

over the knee, give it up. this discussion if beyond you.

Jax .... You never LEARNED, much less UNDERSTOOD, ANY of this ****, as
is obvious but the stupid rants/ trolls, you post on this and/or any
other NG.
I don't care if you're 10 or 60 ..... you're an ignorant idiot whose
probably still trying to figure out a simple method to tie his shoes.

otn



JAXAshby wrote:
over the knee, I understood this simple **** before I got out of high
school.
I assure you that millions of 18 year old boys across the land understand
it as
well, every year. it really is simple.

All chain rode is for old men
 

(Shen44) writes thusly:

[ ]

All chain rode is for old men
 

gene, would you mind very much not posting when you are drunk? wait until a
day or two from now and then try to rewrite your post below:


Poor JAX. Run out of (semi) logical responses?

no, gene, ran out of patience for incoherant drunks.

All chain rode is for old men
 

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/13/2004 19:32 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(Shen44) writes thusly:

[ ]


Now Jax, if you had started this thread/troll in that manner you would have
saved yourself some time.
It's obvious you started it with a stupid post that showed you had no
knowledge, education, experience, understanding, etc. of the subject at
hand.... the norm for you.... and were fully ready to spout some abstract
nonsense in a vain attempt to justify your original BS.
As per usual, you could not respond to any response with anything intelligent
or helpful, to the basic subject of the thread/troll, and instead, embarrassed
yourself with foolish comments about ships at anchor and oilrigs ( a subject
you obviously know even less about).

Shen ..... looking forward to your next attempt at nonsense.......

All chain rode is for old men
 

shen posted the following 100+ words without the use of a single thought.

Now Jax, if you had started this thread/troll in that manner you would have
saved yourself some time.
It's obvious you started it with a stupid post that showed you had no
knowledge, education, experience, understanding, etc. of the subject at
hand.... the norm for you.... and were fully ready to spout some abstract
nonsense in a vain attempt to justify your original BS.
As per usual, you could not respond to any response with anything intelligent
or helpful, to the basic subject of the thread/troll, and instead,
embarrassed
yourself with foolish comments about ships at anchor and oilrigs ( a subject
you obviously know even less about).

Shen ..... looking forward to your next attempt at nonsense.......

All chain rode is for old men
 

gene, go dry out for a few days.

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/13/2004 19:32 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(Shen44) writes thusly:

[ ]


Now Jax, if you had started this thread/troll in that manner you would have
saved yourself some time.
It's obvious you started it with a stupid post that showed you had no
knowledge, education, experience, understanding, etc. of the subject at
hand.... the norm for you.... and were fully ready to spout some abstract
nonsense in a vain attempt to justify your original BS.
As per usual, you could not respond to any response with anything
intelligent
or helpful, to the basic subject of the thread/troll, and instead,
embarrassed
yourself with foolish comments about ships at anchor and oilrigs ( a subject
you obviously know even less about).

Shen ..... looking forward to your next attempt at nonsense.......

Actually, he hasn't said Democrat, Republican, Bush, Kerry, Liberal,
Conservative, or any of those other silly ass political terms.

His physics seems to be accurate on many accounts.

Problem is, the rigidity and narrowness of his posits. In a
laboratory, under given conditions, he is usually quite correct. The
problem is, under most real-life situations.... situations
encountered with real boaters.... under realistic... non-laboratory
conditions, his posits are moot. They just don't apply.

He is entertaining... and while sorta off-plumb, he is on topic. Ya
gotta give him that....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

All chain rode is for old men
 

His physics seems to be accurate on many accounts.

there is a reason for that.

All chain rode is for old men
 

The
problem is, under most real-life situations.... situations
encountered with real boaters.... under realistic... non-laboratory
conditions, his posits are moot. They just don't apply.

that is the very same "logic" used by drunk drivers 30 years ago to justify
their criminal behavior, "I didn't hit anything, there I am safe driving no
matter how much I have".

Way to go, gene.

Ok, a little confused here, The Anchor Line I use, is Nylon, attactched to
my Anchor is an Anchor Rode, or Chain. 4' of heavy Glavanized Chain that
is to aid in the setting of the Flukes. If I tie up to a Dock, I use
Dockline, if I tie up to a Mooreing, I use the Mooreing Line on my vessel.
I allways carry 6 Docklines, and 2 Moreing Lines and on my Anchor is 100'
of Nylon Rope that is tied to a 4'-6' length of Heavy Chain that is
attatched to the 'eye' of my Anchors so that my Anchors will set and my
vessel will stay.
This has obviously worked since my Vessel was one of many few that did not
end up ashore after Ivan hit us.
All of these tactics and Proper Anchoreing can be reviewed and learned
from your local USCGAUX.

Ok, a little confused here, The Anchor Line I use, is Nylon, attactched to
my Anchor is an Anchor Rode, or Chain. 4' of heavy Glavanized Chain that
is to aid in the setting of the Flukes. If I tie up to a Dock, I use
Dockline, if I tie up to a Mooreing, I use the Mooreing Line on my vessel.
I allways carry 6 Docklines, and 2 Moreing Lines and on my Anchor is 100'
of Nylon Rope that is tied to a 4'-6' length of Heavy Chain that is
attatched to the 'eye' of my Anchors so that my Anchors will set and my
vessel will stay.
This has obviously worked since my Vessel was one of many few that did not
end up ashore after Ivan hit us.
All of these tactics and Proper Anchoreing can be reviewed and learned
from your local USCGAUX.

"SandyVigor" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Ok, a little confused here, The Anchor Line I use, is Nylon, attactched to
my Anchor is an Anchor Rode, or Chain. 4' of heavy Glavanized Chain that
is to aid in the setting of the Flukes. If I tie up to a Dock, I use
Dockline, if I tie up to a Mooreing, I use the Mooreing Line on my vessel.
I allways carry 6 Docklines, and 2 Moreing Lines and on my Anchor is 100'
of Nylon Rope that is tied to a 4'-6' length of Heavy Chain that is
attatched to the 'eye' of my Anchors so that my Anchors will set and my
vessel will stay.
This has obviously worked since my Vessel was one of many few that did not
end up ashore after Ivan hit us.
All of these tactics and Proper Anchoreing can be reviewed and learned
from your local USCGAUX.


Yes, you are a bit confused. The entirety of your nylon anchor line and
chain is properly considered the rode, not just the chain. Also, the chain
serves other purposes in addition to helping set the anchor. And lastly,
rope when aboard a vessel, is generally referred to as line. Might want to
go back and brush up on those USCG Auxiliary courses.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:37:57 -0500, SandyVigor wrote:

Ok, a little confused here, The Anchor Line I use, is Nylon, attactched to
my Anchor is an Anchor Rode, or Chain. 4' of heavy Glavanized Chain that
is to aid in the setting of the Flukes.

FOUR FEET? Geez, I have more than that on my 12-ft tin boat. Far Cove has
30ft of chain and 200ft of nylon, with another 200 ready to go if I need
it (and if you're trying for the 5:1 to 7:1 they recommend in 40-60ft of
water, you DO need it!)

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36