Hi Peggy,
Just back from the spring ride downriver to Silver Glen Springs. It was a
great trip except for a couple of mechanical issues.

I have a Formula 26PC with a vac-u-flush. The problem(s) is, the holding
tanks crack and leak on the rear bottom seam. I am on my third holding tank
in 2 years. The tanks are standard TODD units. I am wondering if I need a
special "heavy duty" tank to handle the "kawoosh" of the vacuum flush?

Also, my waste pump needs an overhaul. Any suggestions for a place to buy
spare parts? Our local dealer no longer handles vacuflush systems or parts.
--
Capt. Frank

__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Capt Frank Hopkins wrote:

I have a Formula 26PC with a vac-u-flush. The problem(s) is, the
holding tanks crack and leak on the rear bottom seam. I am on my
third holding tank in 2 years. The tanks are standard TODD units. I
am wondering if I need a special "heavy duty" tank to handle the
"kawoosh" of the vacuum flush?

Todd tanks are pretty flimsy, but the toilet isn't the source of your
problem....'cuz the V/Flush "kawoosh" doesn't go any further than the
vacuum pump, which then pushes the waste the rest of the way to the tank
as it pulls the air of the system between the bowl and the tank. So a
V/Flush puts no more pressure on the holding tank than any other toilet.

Here's what I suspect: If your Formula is a "go fast" model, a
thin-walled tank can't take the kind of pounding that everything in your
boat takes when you run for extended periods at WOT...you're literally
beating the tank to death. So not only do I agree that you need a
thicker walled tank, but that you also need to examine how the tank is
secured and provide some shock absorption/cushioning for it.


Also, my waste pump needs an overhaul. Any suggestions for a place to
buy spare parts? Our local dealer no longer handles vacuflush systems
or parts.

Waste pump? Do you mean the vacuum pump for the toilet...or the
overboard discharge pump to dump the tank? Also explain
"overhaul"--just new duckbill valves, or more serious work?

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Hi Peggy,
Thanks for the reply.

The boat is a PC or "Performance Cruiser." It is quite capable of high speed
running, but rarely do we open her up. My "first mate" perfers a slow ride
down the river. say 25 knots or so. The boat is not banged about at all.

We do have a macerator discharge pump, but rarely use the thing as most of
our travels are in no-discharge zones, and pump out stations are readily
available.

This brings up another question. Could the pump out vacuum be causing the
tank to crack. It does "flex" when the unit is pumped out.

The pump in question is a diaphram type vacuum pump. I was seking a new
diaphram and duckbill valve set.

I would appreciate any recommendations for heavier walled tanks then the
Todd units. I am getting a little thin on scrubbing sewage out of the engine
room.

Would re-piping the system with PVC pipe, eliminating the hoses, be any
advantage other then making the engine room a little neater? The hoses take
up an inordinate amount of room. The fellow who installed the vac-u-flush
system was not real slick as far as a clean installation.

I will exaimne the mount for the tank this weekend.

Thanks again,

Capt. Frank

WEBSITE UPDATED
03-14
__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Capt Frank Hopkins wrote:

I have a Formula 26PC with a vac-u-flush. The problem(s) is, the
holding tanks crack and leak on the rear bottom seam. I am on my
third holding tank in 2 years. The tanks are standard TODD units. I
am wondering if I need a special "heavy duty" tank to handle the
"kawoosh" of the vacuum flush?

Todd tanks are pretty flimsy, but the toilet isn't the source of your
problem....'cuz the V/Flush "kawoosh" doesn't go any further than the
vacuum pump, which then pushes the waste the rest of the way to the tank
as it pulls the air of the system between the bowl and the tank. So a
V/Flush puts no more pressure on the holding tank than any other toilet.

Here's what I suspect: If your Formula is a "go fast" model, a
thin-walled tank can't take the kind of pounding that everything in your
boat takes when you run for extended periods at WOT...you're literally
beating the tank to death. So not only do I agree that you need a
thicker walled tank, but that you also need to examine how the tank is
secured and provide some shock absorption/cushioning for it.


Also, my waste pump needs an overhaul. Any suggestions for a place to
buy spare parts? Our local dealer no longer handles vacuflush systems
or parts.

Waste pump? Do you mean the vacuum pump for the toilet...or the
overboard discharge pump to dump the tank? Also explain
"overhaul"--just new duckbill valves, or more serious work?

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:56:30 GMT, "Capt Frank Hopkins"
wrote:

This brings up another question. Could the pump out vacuum be causing the
tank to crack. It does "flex" when the unit is pumped out.

==============================================

It sounds to me like the tank is either not vented properly or the
vent has become plugged up in some way. It should definitely not flex
at any time.

Capt Frank Hopkins wrote:
This brings up another question. Could the pump out vacuum be causing the
tank to crack. It does "flex" when the unit is pumped out.

Since you've ruled out beating it to death, that's a good possibility,
'cuz strong repeated flexing can crack a tank...and the stronger the
pumpout, the more likely it is to happen, especially if the vent has any
blockage, even a filter in the vent line.


The pump in question is a diaphram type vacuum pump. I was seking a new
diaphram and duckbill valve set.

If the pump is the SeaLand S-series vacuum pump, You can get parts for
it directly from SeaLand--800-321-9886. Duckbills and bellows aren't
available as a set. Duckbills were about $8.50/each last time I saw a
price list--which has been a while, so they may have gone up...the
bellows (diaphragm) was a whopping $90. Are you sure you need one?? 'Cuz
bellows failure is VERY rare. What are the symptoms? If you don't have
a VacuFlush manual, I strongly recommend you ask for one when you order
the duckbills, 'cuz just about every possible symptom, probably causes
and cures are included in it. The current manual is fine no matter what
the age of your toilet...the V/Flush hasn't changed enough to notice in
more than 20 years.


I would appreciate any recommendations for heavier walled tanks then the
Todd units. I am getting a little thin on scrubbing sewage out of the engine
room.

Can't blame you for feeling that way! Your best source for a tank is
Ronco Plastics...they make TOP quality thick-walled (at least 3/8")
tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and
sizes to choose from, including over 100 that are non-rectangular. Their
catalog is on their website at http://www.ronco-plastics.com

Would re-piping the system with PVC pipe, eliminating the hoses, be any
advantage other then making the engine room a little neater? The hoses take
up an inordinate amount of room. The fellow who installed the vac-u-flush
system was not real slick as far as a clean installation.

Unless the hoses have permeated, I don't think you'll gain enough to
make it worth the effort. Hard pipe is only recommended for long
straight runs, and has to be soft-coupled to anything rigid--toilet,
tank, thru-hull, pump etc--with enough hose to provide shock absorption
and protection from flex, so you prob'ly wouldn't gain very much.
If/when your hoses start to stink and require replacement, it might be
worth considering, but not till then.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Wayne.B wrote:

It sounds to me like the tank is either not vented properly or the
vent has become plugged up in some way. It should definitely not flex
at any time.

You'd be surprised at how much a particularly strong pumpout can cause a
thin-walled tank to flex...and by how much a full tank can cause the
walls to bulge, which can contribute to flexing.

But your point is still well taken. A strong enough pumpout can crack
even a thick-walled tank if the vent is blocked...and since most OEM
tanks are thin-walled, that makes it doubly important to make sure the
vent never becomes blocked.

Check the thru-hull regularly...never allow the tank to overflow out the
vent...backflush it each time you wash the boat and/or pump out. And
watch for signs that the vent may be blocked--the pumpout or macerator
only pulls out a gallon or two when you know the tank is full...a
hissing sound in the toilet during pumpout (if the tank isn't getting
enough air through the vent, it'll try to get it wherever it can,
including the toilet).

NEVER just hand over the pumpout to a dockhand and walk away...either do
it yourself and watch the sight glass to make sure the tank is being
completely pumped out, or stand there and watch the sight glass while he
does it. If the pumpout stops pulling out anything before the tank is
empty, cease pumpout immediately or you can risk a cracked tank.

A blocked vent can also result in a pressurized tank when the toilet is
flushed...so watch for signs--increasing backpressure when pumping a
manual toilet...sluggish discharge and backflow in both electric and
manual toilets...a toilet that "burps". If you experience any of these
symptoms, do not use the toilet again or attempt to pumpout until you're
sure the vent is clear. A pressurized tank can burst...or if you're
lucky, only erupt back through the toilet.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Hi again Peggy.
We are just back from a cruise to The Bahamas and back. It was lovely
weather and mostly the sea was calm. The new engine hasn't skipped a beat.

I decided to go a somewhat different route in replacing the plastic tank.
Instead, I had a custom tank constructed from stainless steel, with the
inside well coated with a PVC "paint." Also, installed a larger vent and all
new plumbing. I also sprang for a new pump(s) and new hoses throughout the
system and, added a key-locked enable switch for the macerator to prevent
accidental turning on.

Basically, everything between the accumulator and seacock, or vacuum port is
new except for the "Y" valve. The tank is shaped to conform to the contours
of the hull and stern. I believe it has increased my capacity to about 40
gallons.

The new installation looks much better then the old one, and I believe is
much sturdier as well. It takes up less "deck space" in the engine room and
increases the capacity too. The boat smells much better too.

--
Capt. Frank

__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...


Capt Frank Hopkins wrote:
This brings up another question. Could the pump out vacuum be causing
the
tank to crack. It does "flex" when the unit is pumped out.

Since you've ruled out beating it to death, that's a good possibility,
'cuz strong repeated flexing can crack a tank...and the stronger the
pumpout, the more likely it is to happen, especially if the vent has any
blockage, even a filter in the vent line.


The pump in question is a diaphram type vacuum pump. I was seking a new
diaphram and duckbill valve set.

If the pump is the SeaLand S-series vacuum pump, You can get parts for
it directly from SeaLand--800-321-9886. Duckbills and bellows aren't
available as a set. Duckbills were about $8.50/each last time I saw a
price list--which has been a while, so they may have gone up...the
bellows (diaphragm) was a whopping $90. Are you sure you need one?? 'Cuz
bellows failure is VERY rare. What are the symptoms? If you don't have
a VacuFlush manual, I strongly recommend you ask for one when you order
the duckbills, 'cuz just about every possible symptom, probably causes
and cures are included in it. The current manual is fine no matter what
the age of your toilet...the V/Flush hasn't changed enough to notice in
more than 20 years.


I would appreciate any recommendations for heavier walled tanks then the
Todd units. I am getting a little thin on scrubbing sewage out of the
engine
room.

Can't blame you for feeling that way! Your best source for a tank is
Ronco Plastics...they make TOP quality thick-walled (at least 3/8")
tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and
sizes to choose from, including over 100 that are non-rectangular. Their
catalog is on their website at http://www.ronco-plastics.com

Would re-piping the system with PVC pipe, eliminating the hoses, be any
advantage other then making the engine room a little neater? The hoses
take
up an inordinate amount of room. The fellow who installed the
vac-u-flush
system was not real slick as far as a clean installation.

Unless the hoses have permeated, I don't think you'll gain enough to
make it worth the effort. Hard pipe is only recommended for long
straight runs, and has to be soft-coupled to anything rigid--toilet,
tank, thru-hull, pump etc--with enough hose to provide shock absorption
and protection from flex, so you prob'ly wouldn't gain very much.
If/when your hoses start to stink and require replacement, it might be
worth considering, but not till then.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html