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OT on IRAQ
In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of
aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) |
OT on IRAQ
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote:
In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
John H wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? |
OT on IRAQ
Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Would you
rather have allowed Saddam to continue his killing? Come on there Harry, you enjoy freedom of speech here in the west,,,, yes?? I mean your always barking at the government for what you think is not efficient or not right. Do you know what would happen to you in Iraq? Well, first, they would rape your daughters and rape your wife right in front of you, all this would happen right before they killed you in a most efficient method. Besides there scarry harry, they are not targeting civilians, these babies and innocent who are being killed are mostly a result of the suicide bombers who do not care about collateral damage. The U.S. does every thing possible to limit or eliminate collateral damage. So why are you so against saving the lives of so many more humans? Do you realize that the majority if Iraqi people are appreciative of the U.S.'s presence there? Are you aware that over 75% of recent polled Iraqi people now see a better future, better schools, better hospitals, and the medicine that was once supplied to the Iraqi people by the U.S. is now going to those who need it and not Saddam's black market. The schools are modernized and even the women are allowed to go to school. So scarry harry, what was your point again? It seems selfishly aimed towards your own personal interests, your not Iraqi and you do not live there, but you disagree with what is happening. LOL,,, once again there Harry, you are the limit,,,speed limit.. It is humanitarian efforts, and your right, the U.S. shouldn't have to do this alone, the coalition forces need to have more membership and the U.S. taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for this, there is no excuse why more nations are not financially involved. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? |
OT on IRAQ
Tuuk wrote:
Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Would you rather have allowed Saddam to continue his killing? You mean, as opposed to us doing our killing, or the insurgents in Iraq now doing their killing. Funny thing about killing...if you're the victim, you're just as dead, no matter who does it. |
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No harry, you missed the point.
It must have gone right over your head. Because of the U.S. and the coalition forces, lives have been saved. The objective and long term outcome of this campaign is that lives will be saved and the quality of life will be much greater. So there harry, don't make a stupid statement like the U.S. is intentionally targeting civilians or innocent lives, that is what the suicide bombers are doing. The U.S. is putting a stop to this terrorism. Saddam would reward the suicide bombers with money for their lives and so these brainwashed simpletons just walk into a disco like Bali, or motels or airports or embassies or Red Cross stations or simply crowded markets. Crowded with as many people as possible. These people's objective is to kill as many Americans or Christians as possible. Now, Harry, your government is trying to put a stop to this and what was your objection to that? This is war there Harry, in war there are deaths, but the longer term objective there Harry is lives saved. Do you get that point? The U.S. isn't targeting innocent, or civilians there Harry, where did you even get that idea? Why would you even suggest such a thing. Sorry harry but you asked for this one,,,,,,,, Ya gotta give the head a shake for this one....... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Tuuk wrote: Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Would you rather have allowed Saddam to continue his killing? You mean, as opposed to us doing our killing, or the insurgents in Iraq now doing their killing. Funny thing about killing...if you're the victim, you're just as dead, no matter who does it. |
OT on IRAQ
"Are you aware that over 75% of recent polled Iraqi people"
What would you expect them to say to a bunch of "survey takers" carrying rifles? I'm surprised 25% had the courage to say no. Tuuk wrote: Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Would you rather have allowed Saddam to continue his killing? Come on there Harry, you enjoy freedom of speech here in the west,,,, yes?? I mean your always barking at the government for what you think is not efficient or not right. Do you know what would happen to you in Iraq? Well, first, they would rape your daughters and rape your wife right in front of you, all this would happen right before they killed you in a most efficient method. Besides there scarry harry, they are not targeting civilians, these babies and innocent who are being killed are mostly a result of the suicide bombers who do not care about collateral damage. The U.S. does every thing possible to limit or eliminate collateral damage. So why are you so against saving the lives of so many more humans? Do you realize that the majority if Iraqi people are appreciative of the U.S.'s presence there? Are you aware that over 75% of recent polled Iraqi people now see a better future, better schools, better hospitals, and the medicine that was once supplied to the Iraqi people by the U.S. is now going to those who need it and not Saddam's black market. The schools are modernized and even the women are allowed to go to school. So scarry harry, what was your point again? It seems selfishly aimed towards your own personal interests, your not Iraqi and you do not live there, but you disagree with what is happening. LOL,,, once again there Harry, you are the limit,,,speed limit.. It is humanitarian efforts, and your right, the U.S. shouldn't have to do this alone, the coalition forces need to have more membership and the U.S. taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for this, there is no excuse why more nations are not financially involved. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? |
OT on IRAQ
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:21:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
The pilots orders are in the form of coordinates. Fortunately for him
(her?) he has no idea what he is bombing. I suspect that most of the decisions aren't even made on the battlefield. Targets most likely come from the Pentagon. HOWEVER Can you cite any attempt to shield civilians from attack? i.e., DO NOT bomb here -- it's a hospital, or such. John H wrote: On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:21:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
" Tuuk" wrote in message ...
Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Harry could care less, he is just here to deflect Jim from having to answer Johns question which was, something like "could he note one time when pilots were told to go and bomb innocent folks". Of course he could not and that is what is problematic of the Democratic party in general, they will run with any lie if they think it will help them fool the uninformed... |
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Backyard Renegade wrote:
" Tuuk" wrote in message ... Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Harry could care less, he is just here to deflect Jim from having to answer Johns question which was, something like "could he note one time when pilots were told to go and bomb innocent folks". Of course he could not and that is what is problematic of the Democratic party in general, they will run with any lie if they think it will help them fool the uninformed... The two of you together can't count to 20 without using your toes and fingers, so tell me...how many thousands of lives have been saved by whatever activity you are claiming saved them. Be definitive. You asked for a specific answer; you ought to be prepared to give one. And don't forget to offer proof of your answer. |
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"Jim" wrote in message What would you expect them to say to a bunch of "survey takers" carrying rifles? I'm surprised 25% had the courage to say no. Not so, Jim. Zogby and a couple of others have been polling in Iraq since fairly soon after major hostilities ceased. They've been very careful and particular to ensure that polling is conducted with no other persons present, and in an isolated fashion. They've hired local young civilians fluent in English and the local dialects, and follow procedures similar to those used in other countries to ensure, insofar as possible, that the process is objective and free of taint. Polling is NOT conducted by troops, except, of course for polls conducted directly by the Army. In those cases, incidentally, the Army's poll results are congruent with the civilian polls. |
OT on IRAQ
Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape
and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill "Jim" wrote in message ... The pilots orders are in the form of coordinates. Fortunately for him (her?) he has no idea what he is bombing. I suspect that most of the decisions aren't even made on the battlefield. Targets most likely come from the Pentagon. HOWEVER Can you cite any attempt to shield civilians from attack? i.e., DO NOT bomb here -- it's a hospital, or such. John H wrote: On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:21:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:46:59 -0500, Jim wrote:
The pilots orders are in the form of coordinates. Fortunately for him (her?) he has no idea what he is bombing. I suspect that most of the decisions aren't even made on the battlefield. Targets most likely come from the Pentagon. HOWEVER Can you cite any attempt to shield civilians from attack? i.e., DO NOT bomb here -- it's a hospital, or such. John H wrote: On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:21:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! I didn't make the comparisons of American soldiers to Nazi war criminals. I don't think Adolf Eichman 'accidentally' put a couple million Jews through the crematoriums as 'collateral damage'. I therefore don't think the comparison was appropriate. As to your question, "Can you cite any attempt to shield civilians from attack? i.e., DO NOT bomb here -- it's a hospital, or such." I would only suggest you look at any news coverage of Baghdad. You willl see buildings including mosques, hospitals, castles, etc. still standing. The US could have easily (and cheaply) levelled every structure in the city, but chose instead to hit only specific targets. Were there some strays? Yes. But to imply that the US military is in the same league as Mr. Eichman and associates is somewhat extreme and reflects quite unfavorably on the dimwits espousing the view for their agenda. There, I've sunk to name-calling. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 04:50:37 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill "Jim" wrote in message ... The pilots orders are in the form of coordinates. Fortunately for him (her?) he has no idea what he is bombing. I suspect that most of the decisions aren't even made on the battlefield. Targets most likely come from the Pentagon. HOWEVER Can you cite any attempt to shield civilians from attack? i.e., DO NOT bomb here -- it's a hospital, or such. John H wrote: On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:21:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! We've dropped plenty of bombs on plenty of villages in Iraq, and, by the standards of modern warfare, these villages were either undefended entirely, or were "defended" by a small rabble of irregulars whose actions were small-scale and had nothing to do with the village, but, rather, with saving their own skins. There are counts kept of the non-combatant Iraqi civilians we have killed. The numbers are in the thousands. You think playing your "literalist" games gives you an argument? It only makes you the bigger fool. Is this what they taught you in the military? Amorality? Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! They will simply say you fabricated it anyway. Some folks have their heads so far up their anal orifices that no amount of light will penetrate. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:08:11 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Backyard Renegade wrote: " Tuuk" wrote in message ... Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Harry could care less, he is just here to deflect Jim from having to answer Johns question which was, something like "could he note one time when pilots were told to go and bomb innocent folks". Of course he could not and that is what is problematic of the Democratic party in general, they will run with any lie if they think it will help them fool the uninformed... The two of you together can't count to 20 without using your toes and fingers, so tell me...how many thousands of lives have been saved by whatever activity you are claiming saved them. Be definitive. You asked for a specific answer; you ought to be prepared to give one. And don't forget to offer proof of your answer. Read the question, Harry. "Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" If you can't answer the question, go play mosquito somewhere else. Neither I nor anyone else made claims of 'saving lives'. But since you ask: ********************************************* Society for Animal Welfare Opens in Baghdad With Soldiers’ Help by Spc. Chad D. Wilkerson, 372nd MPAD BAGHDAD, Iraq – The Coalition forces’ contributions to the nation of Iraq are focused toward improving the lives of its citizens. In some cases, however, the benefits are not limited only to humans. With the help of military personnel from 1st Armored Division and V Corps and funding from the 22nd Signal Brigade, Iraqi veterinarians cut the grand opening ribbon at the Iraqi Society for Animal Welfare in central Baghdad Jan 21. The society, made up of military and civilian veterinarians and ministry officials, was formed to address the growing need for animal control in Baghdad. “It is the first of its kind in the country,” said Capt. William Sumner, arts, monuments and archives officer for the 354th Civil Affairs Brigade, an Army Reserve unit from Riverdale, Md., part of Task Force 1st Armored Division. “The society will provide services similar to our Humane Society in the U.S.” Sumner said the studies of Iraq’s canine population revealed startling results. Because one litter of pups can multiply into 69,000 dogs within one year, the dog population in Iraq could cause problems on a national scale if left unchecked. “Diseases like leishmaniasis and rabies are problems related to dogs and pose a real threat to Iraqis,” said Sumner. “Our organization will be able to begin addressing these kinds of animal issues.” The Iraqi Society for Animal Welfare will aid in providing solutions to problems like canine overpopulation and disease control. It will also provide adoption and spay and neuter programs, he said. Until recently, cultural taboos involving animal care in Iraq restricted progress and awareness. Dr. Farah Murrani, assistant director of Baghdad Zoo and director of the Iraqi Society for Animal Welfare, is an English-speaking Iraqi veterinarian who joined the zoo staff last spring and acted as a liaison between Iraqi zoo workers, U.S. Army veterinarians and civil affairs Soldiers. Murrani’s willingness to touch and treat “unclean” animals, and her heartfelt desire to aid her country, made her a prime candidate to lead this new animal care center, Sumner said. “I am a veterinarian, so I am doing what I know how to do in order to help the people of Iraq and aid the reconstruction,” said Murrani. Sumner, whose experience with zoo planning and operations allowed him to play an important role in the establishment of the new animal welfare organization, said the society’s formation is a first step toward a safer and animal-friendly country. “This is the first step in establishing an animal control program here in Baghdad. We hope it will extend throughout Iraq,” said Sumner. “The society is designed not only to help prevent animal cruelty, but to raise the overall awareness of the public for animals in Baghdad.” ************************************************** **8 Now go buzz somewhere else. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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If you post O.T.your a dumbazz,if you post o.t. with a false name , you are a
coward and and Azhole! |
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"Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net...
Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. |
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John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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Jim wrote in message ...
In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages Please show us proof that Americans were told to "drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages? Here we go again, another thread based on pure lies and specualation in the interest of swaying folks to your side. Yeah, that's the type of leadership we need here in this country. Like Kerry, we should have waited in Iraq where there were over a half million men women and children killed and every legit country and organization in the world knows there indeed were/are WMD but in Haiti where less than 80 folks have been killed and there are few signs that anyone there wants anything different, we should have run in to the slaugher days ago.. Wouldn't you and Harry have loved that, dozens of American soliders and Hatian civilians killed, but hey, if it get Kerry elected... |
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Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote: " Tuuk" wrote in message ... Harry, do you know how many thousands of lives have been saved? Harry could care less, he is just here to deflect Jim from having to answer Johns question which was, something like "could he note one time when pilots were told to go and bomb innocent folks". Of course he could not and that is what is problematic of the Democratic party in general, they will run with any lie if they think it will help them fool the uninformed... The two of you together can't count to 20 without using your toes and fingers, so tell me...how many thousands of lives have been saved by whatever activity you are claiming saved them. Be definitive. You asked for a specific answer; you ought to be prepared to give one. And don't forget to offer proof of your answer. OK, definitive bitch... PLEASE SHOW US PROOF THAT AMERICANS PILOTS WERE TOLD TO "DROP BOMBS ON UNDEFENDED IRAQUI VILLAGES"! Is that definitive enough. You are a liar and a shill, that is why you will never answer any direct questions. I seriously can't imagine making my living by ****ing american workers but then again, my dad was not a drunken, wife beating, theif... Yes Harry, some folks around CT do remember your family... |
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On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:03:21 -0500 (EST), "Harry Krause"
wrote: Backyard Renegade wrote: OK, definitive bitch... PLEASE SHOW US PROOF THAT AMERICANS PILOTS WERE TOLD TO "DROP BOMBS ON UNDEFENDED IRAQUI VILLAGES"! American pilots were told to drop bombs and fire rockets in areas populated by non-combatant civilians, just as American ground troups were told to shell areas populated by non-combatant civilians. Why does this surprise you? And yes, I am aware that Saddam and others like Saddam populate the locales of likely targets with civilian housing and shopping areas. But, then, so do we. Visit Capital Hill in the DC area, and you will not only find the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court, but the housing of thousands of DC residents. If US troops are told to bomb or shell areas in which civilians live, then are basically being told to "drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages," or the equivalent thereof. When all your military does is take on piddling third-world forces, you are always going to be "the victor" and your forces will not be subject to prosecution on charges of war crimes. At some point in its future, the United States will come across an adversary that is capable of fighting back, and fighting back hard, and the outcome may not be so assured. If the United States happens to lose against that adversary, and if numbers of its pilots or troops are captured, those folks may well indeed face charges of war crimes for their activities, whether real or not. I doubt you understand any of this, because, sadly, you are as dumb as a post. Is that definitive enough. You are a liar and a shill, that is why you will never answer any direct questions. Very few of your direct questions make any sense, and they are so overlayed in your drunken invective, they are hard to find. Perhaps you ought to limit your commentaries to your experience with homophobia and child abuse. I seriously can't imagine making my living by ****ing american workers but then again, my dad was not a drunken, wife beating, theif... Yes Harry, some folks around CT do remember your family... If you are implying my father was any of those things, you're just proving what a lying low-life you are. My suspicion is that you are projecting your own life's shortcomings onto others. It would not surprise me to learn you are a drunk who beats his wife and children, steals from his neighbors and who is well-known to the police as a sex offender. Have a nice day... Sounds like he's got your number, Harry. You know very well that your implications are bull****, so I won't address them. Tell us about your family, though. Maybe that would explain some of the garbage you post. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote:
John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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Quoting your question
"Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so?" The stats aren't in yet on Iraq, but why do you think we would change tactics? John H wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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Google "Iraq +rules of engagement"
Couple of extracts ************ Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in April, the military has announced several inquiries into alleged transgressions by its forces in the war-ravaged country. Few verdicts have been reported and almost all of those have exonerated the soldiers. “No one feels safe in Iraq now and not a day goes by without more civilians being killed or injured by US soldiers or by armed groups amidst total impunity,” human rights group Amnesty International told AFP on Friday. ************************ BAGHDAD, Iraq – The U.S. military said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, responding to a question Thursday about the Sept. 12 friendly fire deaths of eight Iraqi policemen and a Jordanian guard in Fallujah, gave a response about an earlier killing of two Iraqi policemen by American forces in the same city. Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the military investigation showed no misconduct in the incident. "The initial findings are that the soldiers acted within the construct of the military's rules of engagement," he told reporters. The Associated Press reported that Sanchez was talking about a Sept. 12 shooting involving the 82nd Airborne Division. *********************************** IT is even debateable that the showing og Sadam in captivity, and particularly his dead sons violated the Geneva convention. For an interesting discussion see http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/te...ners_3-23.html John H wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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Steven Shelikoff wrote:
On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship video" Steve Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do the AF flacks release those, too? |
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We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any
rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Steven Shelikoff wrote: On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship video" Steve Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do the AF flacks release those, too? In the Middle East, there are terrorists, soon-to-be terrorists, mother's of terrorists, and mothers of soon-to-be terrorists. Who exactly are the civilians? |
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:05:04 -0500, Jim wrote:
Google "Iraq +rules of engagement" Couple of extracts ************ Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in April, the military has announced several inquiries into alleged transgressions by its forces in the war-ravaged country. Few verdicts have been reported and almost all of those have exonerated the soldiers. “No one feels safe in Iraq now and not a day goes by without more civilians being killed or injured by US soldiers or by armed groups amidst total impunity,” human rights group Amnesty International told AFP on Friday. ************************ BAGHDAD, Iraq – The U.S. military said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, responding to a question Thursday about the Sept. 12 friendly fire deaths of eight Iraqi policemen and a Jordanian guard in Fallujah, gave a response about an earlier killing of two Iraqi policemen by American forces in the same city. Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the military investigation showed no misconduct in the incident. "The initial findings are that the soldiers acted within the construct of the military's rules of engagement," he told reporters. The Associated Press reported that Sanchez was talking about a Sept. 12 shooting involving the 82nd Airborne Division. *********************************** IT is even debateable that the showing og Sadam in captivity, and particularly his dead sons violated the Geneva convention. For an interesting discussion see I am just totally ****ing worried to death about the violation of Saddam's rights! I suppose you think the Tomahawk missile sent to Osama's suspected hideout in Afghanistan (by Clinton) was a violation of Osama's rights. I just don't give a rat's ass. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:20:27 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. I hadn't read your post before my response, but great minds must think alike! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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NOYB wrote:
We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. And this is why the rest of the civilized world considers us "The bully on the block" We claim to be better -- see Bush/Rummy Quote as follows ***** Army Lt. Gen. John Abizaid also criticized the Al Jazeera satellite channel for broadcasting images of the prisoners to much of the Arab world. The officials said the U.S. military is using information from the broadcasts to try to identify the soldiers in order to notify their families. American and humanitarian authorities roundly criticized the interviews and the treatment of the first American Prisoners of War (POWs). The Geneva Convention "We don't know all the details yet. We do know that we expect them to be treated humanely just like we are treating the prisoners of theirs that we capture humanely," President Bush told reporters after returning to the White House from the Camp David presidential retreat. U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that parading prisoners of war before television cameras is a violation of the Geneva Convention, a set of rules that supposedly govern nations' conduct in the event of war. The International Red Cross has also said the broadcasts violated Convention rules. "Article 13 of the Third Geneva Convention says clearly that prisoners of war must at all times be protected... against insult and public curiosity," said Red Cross spokeswoman Nada Doumani. Iraqi Defense Minister Sultan Hashim Ahmad told a Baghdad news conference Iraq would treat prisoners of war in accordance with the Geneva Convention. |
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"NOBBY" wrote:
We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. John H wrote: I hadn't read your post before my response, but great minds must think alike! If by "great minds" you mean pin heads, then yeah, you think alike. Carefully following rules of engagement is what seperates soldiers from trigger-happy thugs. Remember, Iraq is not an enemy country. We do not want to simply kill a lot of Iraqi citizens at random. In this case, guys with attitudes like yours are definitely part of the problem, not part of the solution. DSK |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Steven Shelikoff wrote: On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship video" Steve Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do the AF flacks release those, too? No civilian targets hit by accident. The local terrorists pick those civilian targets with care. IF we opened up our rules of engagement, there would be very few attacks on convoys. The rule would be that if you are with rifle shot, you will be shot. But we seem to care for the local people, same as we did in WW II. Bill |
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Jim wrote:
Google "Iraq +rules of engagement" Couple of extracts ************ Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in April, the military has announced several inquiries into alleged transgressions by its forces in the war-ravaged country. Few verdicts have been reported and almost all of those have exonerated the soldiers. “No one feels safe in Iraq now and not a day goes by without more civilians being killed or injured by US soldiers or by armed groups amidst total impunity,” human rights group Amnesty International told AFP on Friday. ************************ BAGHDAD, Iraq – The U.S. military said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, responding to a question Thursday about the Sept. 12 friendly fire deaths of eight Iraqi policemen and a Jordanian guard in Fallujah, gave a response about an earlier killing of two Iraqi policemen by American forces in the same city. Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the military investigation showed no misconduct in the incident. "The initial findings are that the soldiers acted within the construct of the military's rules of engagement," he told reporters. The Associated Press reported that Sanchez was talking about a Sept. 12 shooting involving the 82nd Airborne Division. *********************************** IT is even debateable that the showing og Sadam in captivity, and particularly his dead sons violated the Geneva convention. For an interesting discussion see http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/te...ners_3-23.html John H wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500, Jim wrote: John H wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500, Jim wrote: In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Nuremberg also taught us that "just following orders" is not an excuse for what the winning side declares to be war crimes. So while the Germans couldn't get off the hook, neither can the Iraqis, who have been told from the beginning of the invasion that if they DID follow their leaders' orders, they would be tried for war crimes. And yet, the sensitive American soldier who is told to drop bombs on undefended Iraqi villages -- well, he must do what he is told to do and there's no wiggle room. He is ruled by people with divine rights; the power that comes from holding one hand on a bible and keeping the other outstretched to the oil oligarchy. What is the wing opening in the sky? What is darkening the clouds? When does it descend in all its ominous power? "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." (Yeats) Can you provide an instance where an American soldier was told that he was to drop bombs on an undefended village and then proceeded to do so? Tokyo and Dresden to name 2 cities that were firebombed in WW2. NEither had military importance, and Thousands of civilians were killed. The bombing of Hanoi was indiscriminate I thought not. Now, what is the rest of your post worth? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! The thread was about Iraq. You must have missed that. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! A high number of rapes of American female soldiers by American male soldiers has been reported...classy, eh? |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Steven Shelikoff wrote: On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship video" Steve Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do the AF flacks release those, too? If we have another 9/11 type attack under your mans presidency, you going to play Vietnamese Monk and martyr yourself? Must be your fault if we do as you spin that it is all Bush's fault. |
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Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Steven Shelikoff wrote: On 1 Mar 2004 05:30:53 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message hlink.net... Actually they give them descriptions also. I have a copy of an AC130 tape and they tell them make sure they do not hit the square (or rectangle - one of the 2) building it is a mosque. So they are also careful. I would post it, but at about 2mb is way too big. Bill Oh, please do. I'd LOVE to hear it. It's all over the web. Just do a google search on "ac-130 gunship video" Steve Where are the videos kept of the civilian targets hit by "accident"? Do the AF flacks release those, too? If we have another 9/11 type attack under your mans presidency, you going to play Vietnamese Monk and martyr yourself? Must be your fault if we do as you spin that it is all Bush's fault. And that has exactly what to do with our "accidental" killing of non-combatants in Iraq? As to the original 9-11 attacks, yes, I believe the Bush Administration screwed the pooch on that, mainly because of Bush's decision to "uninvolve" the US in Middle East peace talks and because of Bush senior's "despoiling" (in the minds of the terrorists) some Moslem terrority in Saudi Arabia. Will there be more attacks? You bet. Nothing Bush has done to date has made us safer. Today I watched for a half hour while waiting for a meeting as Capitol Hill cops stopped car motorists at random for car checks, while white vans and Winnebagos drove by unmolested. This was between several congressional buildings. D'oh. |
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"Jim" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. And this is why the rest of the civilized world considers us "The bully on the block" We claim to be better -- see Bush/Rummy Quote as follows ***** Army Lt. Gen. John Abizaid also criticized the Al Jazeera satellite channel for broadcasting images of the prisoners to much of the Arab world. The officials said the U.S. military is using information from the broadcasts to try to identify the soldiers in order to notify their families. American and humanitarian authorities roundly criticized the interviews and the treatment of the first American Prisoners of War (POWs). As I said, the other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. Nevertheless, remember that it's always the victor that gets to make the rules and rewrite history. |
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:16:19 -0500, DSK wrote:
"NOBBY" wrote: We really don't give a rat's ass, Jim. The other side doesn't abide by any rules, and we sure as hell shouldn't. John H wrote: I hadn't read your post before my response, but great minds must think alike! If by "great minds" you mean pin heads, then yeah, you think alike. Carefully following rules of engagement is what seperates soldiers from trigger-happy thugs. Remember, Iraq is not an enemy country. We do not want to simply kill a lot of Iraqi citizens at random. In this case, guys with attitudes like yours are definitely part of the problem, not part of the solution. DSK The post to which you responded had absolutely nothing to do with rules of engagement. It had to do with a 'violation' of Saddam's rights. Before you jump and call names, read the posts, if you please. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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John H wrote:
The post to which you responded had absolutely nothing to do with rules of engagement. Other than being about 'rules of engagement' and alleged violations of same, yeah. Before you jump and call names, read the posts, if you please. I'm not calling names, just stating facts. And your posts have become just more predictable boring fact-free BushCo cheerleading. At this point I read very few of yours or Nobby's posts. DSK |
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