|
OT on IRAQ
"bb" wrote in message ... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:44:26 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. Well, like it or not, I think offshore medical and dental care could become a big thing in the future. Maybe, as you say, the quality is hit and miss right now. It would appear there's a large market potential for marketing cheaper medical and dental services by our close neighbors. Certainly one such as yourself, who's relatively early in a career, has a lot to be concerned about. Auto and steel workers may not be the only ones who's life is adversely affected by cheap foreign labor. I doubt it. Comprehensive treatment (ie--the expensive stuff like full mouth rehabilitation and dental implants) can't be completed in a day. It requires dozens of trips to the dentist...in a period sometimes spanning anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. The cost of travel and lodging, and the inconvenience of multiple trips, takes away any comparative advantage the foreign countries might offer. Plus, who are you going to see for emergency care when the 14-unitb roundhouse bridge you just had placed in Costa Rica fractures the weekend before your daughter's wedding? The non-comprehesive stuff (fillings and single crowns) can be completed in a day or week...but who's going to travel to Costa Rica for treatment just to save $500-600 dollars? |
OT on IRAQ
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. Sterngold. I don't know anybody that uses them, however. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. They're actually even cheaper than that. About $80-90. Add another $20 for the impression post, $16 for the analog, $75 for the UCLA coping, $25 for the healing abutment, $75 for the lab-fabricated temporary, $50 for the cost of the gold (used with the UCLA coping), and a lab bill of about $250 for the crown and custom abutment. That's about $600...and Sterngold is the flat-out cheapest on the market. The implants my surgeons use are about 3 or 4 times as expensive...the surfaces aren't machined, but acid-etched...which gives better osseointegration. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. Well, I've never claimed expertise in the black magic of dentistry. |
OT on IRAQ
John H wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:56:46 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:52:06 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. The procedure is no fun, especially if they have to do a "sinus lift." John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! I have no idea what a sinus lift is...care to elucidate? Well, I'm not 100% sure what it is, but I'll tell you what I think it was. Maybe NOYB will jump in and elucidate my elucidation. I think there is not enough room in the mouth for the teeth to close properly when the implants, screws, caps, crowns, etc. are installed.. So room must be made by raising the upper bone in which the teeth root. This is done by placing a metal punch against the bone and literally beating it upwards with a metal hammer. Of course, you've had shots to deaden the pain (yeah, right!), so theoretically this shouldn't hurt. But it did. And for the next 24 hours my head felt as though someone were still going at it with a jackhammer, albeit a small one. And then the procedure had to be repeated on the other side of the mouth. I just couldn't wait for that appointment. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Holy ****...and you got to pay for this torture? |
OT on IRAQ
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:52:06 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. The procedure is no fun, especially if they have to do a "sinus lift." John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! I have no idea what a sinus lift is...care to elucidate? When there's not enough bone left in the maxilla (upper arch) to place an implant of sufficient length, the surgeon lifts the membrane at the floor of the sinus, and places bone grafting material (cadaver, autogenous, bovine, synthetic, etc) iunderneath the membrane in the space he/she created. This gives the surgeon enough bone thickness to place a sufficiently long implant in the area...so that it doesn't protrude into the sinus space. Oh..cadaver, definitely...that's the way to do it. |
OT on IRAQ
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:23:47 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"bb" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:44:26 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. Well, like it or not, I think offshore medical and dental care could become a big thing in the future. Maybe, as you say, the quality is hit and miss right now. It would appear there's a large market potential for marketing cheaper medical and dental services by our close neighbors. Certainly one such as yourself, who's relatively early in a career, has a lot to be concerned about. Auto and steel workers may not be the only ones who's life is adversely affected by cheap foreign labor. I doubt it. Comprehensive treatment (ie--the expensive stuff like full mouth rehabilitation and dental implants) can't be completed in a day. It requires dozens of trips to the dentist...in a period sometimes spanning anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. The cost of travel and lodging, and the inconvenience of multiple trips, takes away any comparative advantage the foreign countries might offer. Plus, who are you going to see for emergency care when the 14-unitb roundhouse bridge you just had placed in Costa Rica fractures the weekend before your daughter's wedding? The non-comprehesive stuff (fillings and single crowns) can be completed in a day or week...but who's going to travel to Costa Rica for treatment just to save $500-600 dollars? bb, this is all true. I had eleven teeth pulled and replaced with implants. I went to the dentist about every 3-4 weeks for over a year. No way could I have afforded to fly to Costa Rico for all those trips. And yes, in between the scheduled visits I made several trips to get the temporary dentures repaired, reglued, or replaced because I bit down on something the wrong way. (Or because I chewed Nicorette's and they stuck to the plastic stuff the temporaries were made of!) John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:39:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: John H wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:56:46 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: John H wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:52:06 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. The procedure is no fun, especially if they have to do a "sinus lift." John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! I have no idea what a sinus lift is...care to elucidate? Well, I'm not 100% sure what it is, but I'll tell you what I think it was. Maybe NOYB will jump in and elucidate my elucidation. I think there is not enough room in the mouth for the teeth to close properly when the implants, screws, caps, crowns, etc. are installed.. So room must be made by raising the upper bone in which the teeth root. This is done by placing a metal punch against the bone and literally beating it upwards with a metal hammer. Of course, you've had shots to deaden the pain (yeah, right!), so theoretically this shouldn't hurt. But it did. And for the next 24 hours my head felt as though someone were still going at it with a jackhammer, albeit a small one. And then the procedure had to be repeated on the other side of the mouth. I just couldn't wait for that appointment. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Holy ****...and you got to pay for this torture? That's exactly what I asked the dentist. He was having all the fun, and I was paying him for it! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT on IRAQ
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:40:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John H wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:52:06 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. The procedure is no fun, especially if they have to do a "sinus lift." John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! I have no idea what a sinus lift is...care to elucidate? When there's not enough bone left in the maxilla (upper arch) to place an implant of sufficient length, the surgeon lifts the membrane at the floor of the sinus, and places bone grafting material (cadaver, autogenous, bovine, synthetic, etc) iunderneath the membrane in the space he/she created. This gives the surgeon enough bone thickness to place a sufficiently long implant in the area...so that it doesn't protrude into the sinus space. Oh..cadaver, definitely...that's the way to do it. I really think NOYB could make a two-week old, road-killed 'possum sound appetizing! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT Dental Implants
When I was a teen my orthodontist pulled two of my bottom teeth to make
room. Normal enough to pull permanant teeth for this procedure. Except - that no one looked at the ex-rays. Appears the crowding was caused by a couple of fairly well rooted baby teeth that both fell out before I was 30. Of course the two pulled teeth were right next door and had the two baby teeth been removed moved instead it would have been abou tthe same overall effect. So now I have a 1/4" gap behind each of my lower canine teeth, then the molars start. I've often considered implants for those 2 holes - the rest of my teeth are fine. -W "NOYB" wrote in message news:nzQ1c.178084 When there's not enough bone left in the maxilla (upper arch) to place an implant of sufficient length, the surgeon lifts the membrane at the floor of the sinus, and places bone grafting material (cadaver, autogenous, bovine, synthetic, etc) iunderneath the membrane in the space he/she created. This gives the surgeon enough bone thickness to place a sufficiently long implant in the area...so that it doesn't protrude into the sinus space. |
OT on IRAQ
"John H" wrote in message ... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:14:00 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. Sterngold. I don't know anybody that uses them, however. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. They're actually even cheaper than that. About $80-90. Add another $20 for the impression post, $16 for the analog, $75 for the UCLA coping, $25 for the healing abutment, $75 for the lab-fabricated temporary, $50 for the cost of the gold (used with the UCLA coping), and a lab bill of about $250 for the crown and custom abutment. That's about $600...and Sterngold is the flat-out cheapest on the market. The implants my surgeons use are about 3 or 4 times as expensive...the surfaces aren't machined, but acid-etched...which gives better osseointegration. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. Now go back and correct what I told him about a "sinus lift." Your description was much more colorful. ;-) |
OT on IRAQ
"John H" wrote in message ... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:23:47 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "bb" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:44:26 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. Well, like it or not, I think offshore medical and dental care could become a big thing in the future. Maybe, as you say, the quality is hit and miss right now. It would appear there's a large market potential for marketing cheaper medical and dental services by our close neighbors. Certainly one such as yourself, who's relatively early in a career, has a lot to be concerned about. Auto and steel workers may not be the only ones who's life is adversely affected by cheap foreign labor. I doubt it. Comprehensive treatment (ie--the expensive stuff like full mouth rehabilitation and dental implants) can't be completed in a day. It requires dozens of trips to the dentist...in a period sometimes spanning anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. The cost of travel and lodging, and the inconvenience of multiple trips, takes away any comparative advantage the foreign countries might offer. Plus, who are you going to see for emergency care when the 14-unitb roundhouse bridge you just had placed in Costa Rica fractures the weekend before your daughter's wedding? The non-comprehesive stuff (fillings and single crowns) can be completed in a day or week...but who's going to travel to Costa Rica for treatment just to save $500-600 dollars? bb, this is all true. I had eleven teeth pulled and replaced with implants. I went to the dentist about every 3-4 weeks for over a year. No way could I have afforded to fly to Costa Rico for all those trips. And yes, in between the scheduled visits I made several trips to get the temporary dentures repaired, reglued, or replaced because I bit down on something the wrong way. (Or because I chewed Nicorette's and they stuck to the plastic stuff the temporaries were made of!) At least you chewed the Nicorette and didn't smoke. The sinus lift would have failed. |
OT on IRAQ
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:51:55 -0500, John H
wrote: I really think NOYB could make a two-week old, road-killed 'possum sound appetizing! He's been trying that with Bush for three years now and it's not working. bb |
OT on IRAQ
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. My dentist and friend showed me a catalog of implant posts from some company with the word "Gold" in its name...or something like that. Sterngold. I don't know anybody that uses them, however. The posts were something like $125 each...titanium. They're actually even cheaper than that. About $80-90. Add another $20 for the impression post, $16 for the analog, $75 for the UCLA coping, $25 for the healing abutment, $75 for the lab-fabricated temporary, $50 for the cost of the gold (used with the UCLA coping), and a lab bill of about $250 for the crown and custom abutment. That's about $600...and Sterngold is the flat-out cheapest on the market. The implants my surgeons use are about 3 or 4 times as expensive...the surfaces aren't machined, but acid-etched...which gives better osseointegration. This was six or seven years ago. I wasn't shopping, but I was curious about the procedure. Well, I've never claimed expertise in the black magic of dentistry. Harry, Did you go to Bal Harbor yet? How was the fishing. The weather was pretty poor (windy) the last week. |
OT on IRAQ
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:23:47 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
I doubt it. Comprehensive treatment (ie--the expensive stuff like full mouth rehabilitation and dental implants) can't be completed in a day. It requires dozens of trips to the dentist...in a period sometimes spanning anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. The cost of travel and lodging, and the inconvenience of multiple trips, takes away any comparative advantage the foreign countries might offer. Maybe you underestimate the resourcefulness of the competition. What's to stop other's from stationing cruise ship type vessels offshore to provide medical services? Plus, who are you going to see for emergency care when the 14-unitb roundhouse bridge you just had placed in Costa Rica fractures the weekend before your daughter's wedding? If a large part of the bread and butter dental procedures are taken away by foreign competitors, there would be plenty of starving (ex-right wing) dentists willing to take what ever work they could get. The non-comprehesive stuff (fillings and single crowns) can be completed in a day or week...but who's going to travel to Costa Rica for treatment just to save $500-600 dollars? I just had a gold crown done. If I could have combined that with a couple of weekend trips to Costa Rica and ended up breaking even, I'd have though about it. You may completely discount the possibility, but it could happen. When people in less developed countries are trying to provide just the basics for their families, the excess surrounding US medical and dental providers have to look like a very tempting target. bb |
OT on IRAQ
NOYB wrote:
Harry, Did you go to Bal Harbor yet? How was the fishing. The weather was pretty poor (windy) the last week. I leave Saturday, mid-day, from National Airport. At this point, I hope to get out fishing *once* during the week. My list of assignments down there is growing exponentially. I was hoping to low-profile it during the week. Now I have to pack some suits...and not bathing suits. I do get to attend a meeting at which Kerry is scheduled to appear and speak, and that should be fun. I saw him a couple of weeks ago in DC, but it was outdoors. |
OT on IRAQ
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: Harry, Did you go to Bal Harbor yet? How was the fishing. The weather was pretty poor (windy) the last week. I leave Saturday, mid-day, from National Airport. At this point, I hope to get out fishing *once* during the week. My list of assignments down there is growing exponentially. I was hoping to low-profile it during the week. Now I have to pack some suits...and not bathing suits. I do get to attend a meeting at which Kerry is scheduled to appear and speak, and that should be fun. I saw him a couple of weeks ago in DC, but it was outdoors. I'll be going to the SKA Div. 11 weigh-in at Bayfront in Naples this weekend. Weather is supposed to be superb. Good luck fishing. BTW--Watching Kerry speak is anything but "fun". Watching Bush speak is a lot more fun...even if it's because you're giggling at his gaffe's. |
OT on IRAQ
"bb" wrote in message ... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:23:47 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I doubt it. Comprehensive treatment (ie--the expensive stuff like full mouth rehabilitation and dental implants) can't be completed in a day. It requires dozens of trips to the dentist...in a period sometimes spanning anywhere from 6 months to a year or more. The cost of travel and lodging, and the inconvenience of multiple trips, takes away any comparative advantage the foreign countries might offer. Maybe you underestimate the resourcefulness of the competition. What's to stop other's from stationing cruise ship type vessels offshore to provide medical services? That's a great concept...if you live in a city with a ship port...and you don't mind going through customs every time you have a dental appointment. Plus, who are you going to see for emergency care when the 14-unitb roundhouse bridge you just had placed in Costa Rica fractures the weekend before your daughter's wedding? If a large part of the bread and butter dental procedures are taken away by foreign competitors, there would be plenty of starving (ex-right wing) dentists willing to take what ever work they could get. Poor people can't afford to fly to Costa Rica...and rich people aren't going to go through the hassle to save a few bucks. The middle class have jobs and responsibilites and can't pick up and leave. Your idea is a pipe dream. The non-comprehesive stuff (fillings and single crowns) can be completed in a day or week...but who's going to travel to Costa Rica for treatment just to save $500-600 dollars? I just had a gold crown done. If I could have combined that with a couple of weekend trips to Costa Rica and ended up breaking even, I'd have though about it. And think about it is all you'd do. You may completely discount the possibility, but it could happen. And pigs could fly. Really, they could. When people in less developed countries are trying to provide just the basics for their families, the excess surrounding US medical and dental providers have to look like a very tempting target. |
OT on IRAQ
John H wrote in message
bb, this is all true. I had eleven teeth pulled and replaced with implants. I went to the dentist about every 3-4 weeks for over a year. No way could I have afforded to fly to Costa Rico for all those trips. And yes, in between the scheduled visits I made several trips to get the temporary dentures repaired, reglued, or replaced because I bit down on something the wrong way. (Or because I chewed Nicorette's and they stuck to the plastic stuff the temporaries were made of!) They have this instrument that would have eliminated the need to pull eleven teeth. It's called a toothbrush. |
OT on IRAQ
"NOYB" wrote in message .com...
"basskisser" wrote in message m... "Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Cwp1c.19784 I very much doubt the fee's are 10%. Looked at the prices in Costa Rica? Again, I know fact doesn't mean anything to you but: http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm According to your link, implants in Costa Rica cost $750-800. In the states, they cost $1200-1800. (We're talking about the implant...not the abutment, and not the crown). That means they're about 50-65%...not 10% as you claimed. You've picked one procedure, from one web site. What a way to research. |
OT on IRAQ
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:13:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
That's a great concept...if you live in a city with a ship port...and you don't mind going through customs every time you have a dental appointment. You wouldn't have to have a port or pass through customs. Station a vessel in international waters and shuttle people out. You can discount any possibility that foreign competition will affect your trade, but that doesn't mean someone won't come up with a concept that will put a hurtin on the medical field much like it has many other industries. bb |
OT on IRAQ
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OT on IRAQ
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:10:35 GMT, bb wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:13:07 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: That's a great concept...if you live in a city with a ship port...and you don't mind going through customs every time you have a dental appointment. You wouldn't have to have a port or pass through customs. Station a vessel in international waters and shuttle people out. You can discount any possibility that foreign competition will affect your trade, but that doesn't mean someone won't come up with a concept that will put a hurtin on the medical field much like it has many other industries. bb And we could do a little trolling on our way out to the vessel! Cool. I like it. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
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