I was dismayed to learn today that the beach from Pompano Beach to
Lauderdale-by-the-Sea is a "vessel exclusion" zone. The buoys say
"Ordinance 389" or some such, but Google turns up nothing relevant on
"exclusion zones" for "Flordia", "389", "Broward", "Lauderdale", etc.

This means I can't stop at my mom's private beachfront condominium and pick
up passengers with a (motorized) dinghy at the beach. Nor can you fish
from the beach! As soon as I tried beaching today, a state boat appeared
withing seconds and gave me a warning. (Apparently there are busybodies in
the buildings ashore that phone 911 if you try it.) The officer said you
can't even raise the outboard and oar yourself in, you can't have any power
available on the boat, not even an electric trolling motor.

When did Florida start outlawing fishing and boating from the beach?

Just how does one find such picayune, strictly local laws?

Is there a boater vs swimmer lobby?

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:10:13 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

When did Florida start outlawing fishing and boating from the beach?

Just how does one find such picayune, strictly local laws?

Is there a boater vs swimmer lobby?

=====================================

That area is a heavily used public beach as you probably know. My
guess is that the town is trying to limit their liability from a
boater-swimmer collision. It may also be their way of banning PWC
rentals from the beach which are popular in some other areas.

How far out are the exclusion buoys? If not too far, you could anchor
outside and swim in.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:42:29 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:10:13 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

When did Florida start outlawing fishing and boating from the beach?

Just how does one find such picayune, strictly local laws?

Is there a boater vs swimmer lobby?

=====================================

That area is a heavily used public beach as you probably know. My
guess is that the town is trying to limit their liability from a
boater-swimmer collision. It may also be their way of banning PWC
rentals from the beach which are popular in some other areas.

How far out are the exclusion buoys? If not too far, you could anchor
outside and swim in.

This is interesting because I'm not sure they can do that.

Don't take this as fact, but Federal statute on beach ownership is to
the Highest High Mean Tide point - anything lower than that it open to
the public.

We just had a case down in Greenwich, CT and over in Jamestown, RI
where those owning beach front property wanted to restrict access to
"their" property which they took to mean Mean Lowest Low Tide. Ain't
so and the cases were bounced from state and Federal courts.

There was also an issue on a State beach about five years ago about
beaching boats where swimmers were. The State lost the case for the
same reason as the private owners.

Now, exclusionary zones are legal in terms of wake and speeds can be
regulated, but I'm not at all sure that landing rights can be denied.

Again, this is all from memory and I'm too lazy to look up the
references. Take it for what that's worth.

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:55:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
How far out are the exclusion buoys? If not too far, you could anchor
outside and swim in.

This is interesting because I'm not sure they can do that.

Don't take this as fact, but Federal statute on beach ownership is to
the Highest High Mean Tide point - anything lower than that it open to
the public.

We just had a case down in Greenwich, CT and over in Jamestown, RI
where those owning beach front property wanted to restrict access to
"their" property which they took to mean Mean Lowest Low Tide. Ain't
so and the cases were bounced from state and Federal courts.

There was also an issue on a State beach about five years ago about
beaching boats where swimmers were. The State lost the case for the
same reason as the private owners.

Now, exclusionary zones are legal in terms of wake and speeds can be
regulated, but I'm not at all sure that landing rights can be denied.

Again, this is all from memory and I'm too lazy to look up the
references. Take it for what that's worth.

===============================================

The various park commissions that control the ocean beaches on the
south shore of Long Island have banned boat landing and launching for
years. I'm not sure if any of it has ever been tested in court but
the regulations are in place.

My sense of it is that the parks people are hyper sensitive to legal
liability issues, and that the various environmental factions back
them up because they'd prefer that NO one use THEIR beaches for any
purpose whatsoever.

Wayne.B writes:

That area is a heavily used public beach as you probably know.

Not really public. The area I am talking about is from Atlantic Blvd in
Pompano Beach, south to Commercial Blvd in Lauderdale-by-the-Sea. This is
not "public" beach in that it is all private buildings on the waterfront,
from hi-rise condominiums to small old cottages. It is definitely not a
public park like the Ft Lauderdale beach.

Florida seems to have case law about the "wet sand" being public, though.
"Wet sand" being the high-tide wash and below. This is apparently what
lets you walk up and down the beach frontage that is all private. The "dry
sand" above the high-water mark is privately owned (in this area).

Boating laws being a mishmash of admiralty/federal/state/local
jurisdictions, I'm having a lot of trouble sorting things out.

I have also gotten a written warning about not having flares on board when
I was pulled over for speed in a marina basin. Later I read the USCG
regulations that boats under 16' in the daytime don't (legally) require
flares (although of course it is a good idea to have em).

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne.B writes:

That area is a heavily used public beach as you probably know.

Not really public. The area I am talking about is from Atlantic Blvd in
Pompano Beach, south to Commercial Blvd in Lauderdale-by-the-Sea. This is
not "public" beach in that it is all private buildings on the waterfront,
from hi-rise condominiums to small old cottages. It is definitely not a
public park like the Ft Lauderdale beach.

Florida seems to have case law about the "wet sand" being public, though.
"Wet sand" being the high-tide wash and below. This is apparently what
lets you walk up and down the beach frontage that is all private. The
"dry
sand" above the high-water mark is privately owned (in this area).

Boating laws being a mishmash of admiralty/federal/state/local
jurisdictions, I'm having a lot of trouble sorting things out.

I have also gotten a written warning about not having flares on board when
I was pulled over for speed in a marina basin. Later I read the USCG
regulations that boats under 16' in the daytime don't (legally) require
flares (although of course it is a good idea to have em).

I got pulled over last summer, and got the flare lecture. My boat's 14', and
the regs *seem* to say flares are required. Maybe. I ended up getting them
because if nothing else, they'll eliminate some hassles next time my son's
girlfriend with the short skirt is on board, and we're pulled over by four
23 yr old Coast Guard guys who are obsessed with my safety. snicker

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:11:24 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:
Wayne.B writes:

That area is a heavily used public beach as you probably know.

Not really public. The area I am talking about is from Atlantic Blvd in
Pompano Beach, south to Commercial Blvd in Lauderdale-by-the-Sea. This is
not "public" beach in that it is all private buildings on the waterfront,
from hi-rise condominiums to small old cottages. It is definitely not a
public park like the Ft Lauderdale beach.
====================

I'm familiar with that stretch of beach. It's true that it is not a
park, but is readily accessible to the general population in many
places via a number of public walkways tucked in between the condos,
beach bars and old Florida funky motels.

You wouldn't happen to be a PWC operator by any chance? If so, bear
in mind that careless PWC operation is one of the primary factors
leading to the current state of over regulation.

Wayne.B writes:

You wouldn't happen to be a PWC operator by any chance? If so, bear
in mind that careless PWC operation is one of the primary factors
leading to the current state of over regulation.

No, not a PWC, but a 14' inflatable.

I talked on the phone to a Florida Marine Patrol officer on desk duty
today. He said he wasn't familiar with the ordinance and that he would
call me back tomorrow after he researched it. He did remark that the buoys
300 ft off the shoreline were put in only a year or two ago. Now I wonder
if there wasn't a 9/11 super-security justification for some new strict
regulations.

He also added that personally he thought it stunk if you couldn't beach
your boat. I guess there's a high likelihood than any Marine Patrol
officer is going to be a boating enthusiast in real life, and be
sympathetic to your problems if you're trying to have a law-abiding good
time with the kids.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:02:48 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

He did remark that the buoys
300 ft off the shoreline were put in only a year or two ago. Now I wonder
if there wasn't a 9/11 super-security justification for some new strict
regulations.

That's a good point. I know over in Narragansett Bay, the bridge
restrictions are no stopping, anchoring or trolling within 500 feet of
the bridges and the Navy base shore. The shore line is bouyed, but
the bridges aren't.

They aren't enforcing it though - it almost impossible to.

Later,

Tom

"Patty O'Furniture" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:02:48 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

He did remark that the buoys
300 ft off the shoreline were put in only a year or two ago. Now I wonder
if there wasn't a 9/11 super-security justification for some new strict
regulations.

That's a good point. I know over in Narragansett Bay, the bridge
restrictions are no stopping, anchoring or trolling within 500 feet of
the bridges and the Navy base shore. The shore line is bouyed, but
the bridges aren't.

They aren't enforcing it though - it almost impossible to.

Later,

Tom


Navy base in N-Bay? Was it installed after 1970, or was I below, making a
sandwich when my dad cruised us through the bay way back then?