Doug Kanter wrote:
NPR news reported last week that China is years away from being able to
coordinate its various forces in the way we can now, and that this keeps
them from being as big a threat some would like to believe.


You mean 'NPR the socialist mouthpiece radio station'?? They must have
some kind of nefarious plot if they are saying good things about the US
military!!

Actually, the US could control the Taiwan Straights easily, and the
Chinese could do little except sacrifice their forces... two carrier
battle groups would do it. Their subs are more of a threat than anything
else. They could also plaster Taiwan with rockets.

But we will do nothing of the sort, for one thing (as you yourself
pointed out) we need to keep on China's good side so they'll do
something about North Korea and their nukes, and (as I pointed out) they
are holding enough US debt to drop the dollar to pennies or less.

The Taiwanese have figured out that the US is a broken reed as an ally,
but I'm not sure if they have any plans for what to do next, if China
really decides to annex them.

DSK

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

Closer to perfecting? If you leave Boston, driving to Texas, and your car
dies and ends your trip just north of Hartford CT, yes, you are closer
than when you left Boston, but not enough to user the word "closer" with
any sense of celebration.

That's not an apt analogy. A better one would be:
You make a trip to Texas 8 different times. Two of those times, your car
dies somewhere in the midwest...and once, it once wouldn't start in the
driveway. The other 5 trips went just as planned. The missile defense
tests have hit their mark 5 out of 8 times. I'd say we're "closer to
perfecting" the system. I would estimate that before the end of Bush's
second term, we'll have at least some semblance of a working system in
place.

Just one problem: The system could have two purposes.

1) Prevent an attack which we had absolutely nothing to do with provoking.
This is a good thing.

2) Prevent a RESPONSE to a situation created by a group consisting of one
idiot and a handful of madmen, who think that a good way to free up some oil
supply would be to cripple or eliminate the world's *other* legitimate
customer, China.

#2 is highly likely, considering the fact that your master and his crew have
already shown that they like to create mayhem where there was none before.




What's happening now is nothing new. Didn't you follow the space program
before we successfully landed on the moon? Would you argue that with each
test...some successful, and some not...that we weren't any "closer to
perfecting" our ability to reach the moon?

Moon missions could've have failed endlessly for 20 years and it would not
have been the same, since the systems being developed were not needed to
back up the threats of a madman. There was nothing to lose but the lives of
volunteers, and a lot of time spent debating the budget of the thing in
Congress.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
NOYB wrote:
SDI is our ace in the hole...and we're getting closer to perfecting it.

No we aren't. The contractors are making a smoke-and-mirrors show. The
Pentagon declared the last round of tests to be a failure.


... You are correct that the old MAD scenario will rear its ugly head
again...this time, with China. But if China is convinced that any ICBMs
launched at the US would be intercepted before they made landfall, they'd
be a lot more receptive to the threat of any military pressure from the
US.


What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a pen.
President Bush wouold be incredibly stupid to threaten them... and while
he may or may not be that stupid... I'd prefer to not find out... somebody
in his cabinet does have better sense and makes sure he doesn't make the
Chinese angry. Look what happened when they held that spy plane and it's
crew...

DSK


Bush probably thinks he can appease them with boxes of Omaha steaks.

Meanwhile....I doubt there are any t-shirt manufacturers left in this
country. They wouldn't need to threaten us economically. All they need to do
is cut off our supply of clothing.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

From ABC NEws:

China passes Taiwan anti-secession law

China's parliament has unanimously passed a law giving the Chinese
military the legal basis to attack Taiwan if it moves towards
independence.

The National People's Congress passed the legislation by an
overwhelming majority of 2,896 votes for and none against. Two
delegates abstained.

The text of the draft, according to the Xinhua news agency, calls for
the use of "non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to protect
China's sovereignty and territorial integrity", if all else fails.

This will be necessary "in the event that the 'Taiwan independence'
secessionist forces should act under any name or by any means to cause
the fact of Taiwan's secession from China", the draft law said.

It does not specify what is meant by "non-peaceful means" but analysts
believe it would cover anything from blockade to surgical missile
strikes and all-out invasion.

The law takes effect immediately.

On his appointment as China's top military chief, President Hu Jintao
told the army to prepare for war to safeguard the country's territorial
integrity, in an apparent reference to Taiwan.


- - -

You won't see or hear much from the Bush neoconvicts on this; if you've
got the ability to fight back, the good ol' USA will give you a pass.


That'd be a little too much on our plate right now. Let the Middle East
situation continue to come into shape. Once there are stable pro-US
governments in the oil-producing countries, the World will have a have a
more potent economic weapon to use against the Chinese.


Apples and oranges. I stated Bush wouldn't have the balls to play
military footsie with the PRC. We only take on ****ant military powers
militarily.



NPR news reported last week that China is years away from being able to
coordinate its various forces in the way we can now, and that this keeps
them from being as big a threat some would like to believe.


China *has* WMDs, including nukes, and the ability to deliver them where
they want.

Go to www.npr.org and browse last week's story archives for either the
morning or afternoon shows. Not sure when I heard it. They have the toys,
but the DoD veteran they interviewed said that they'd have a hard time
defending against certain common types of military action, due to their lack
of modern coordination methods.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
NOYB wrote:
SDI is our ace in the hole...and we're getting closer to perfecting it.

No we aren't. The contractors are making a smoke-and-mirrors show. The
Pentagon declared the last round of tests to be a failure.


... You are correct that the old MAD scenario will rear its ugly head
again...this time, with China. But if China is convinced that any ICBMs
launched at the US would be intercepted before they made landfall, they'd
be a lot more receptive to the threat of any military pressure from the
US.


What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a pen.

And we could do the same to them. But their thirst for US dollars to feed
their military would preclude them from doing such a thing.

We'd take it on the chin, but we'd recover a lot more rapidly. There'd be an
immediate surge in inflation, and an overwhelming demand for products and
parts that aren't available. Your local TV/electronics repairman would be
stuffed to the gills with work. The dollar stores would all go under.

Remember that we had a strong, vibrant economy *before* we started doing
business in China. Their economy didn't come around until we started doing
business there.



President Bush wouold be incredibly stupid to threaten them... and while
he may or may not be that stupid... I'd prefer to not find out...

At least we agree on this point.

somebody in his cabinet does have better sense and makes sure he doesn't
make the Chinese angry.

The Chinese started getting bolder and more aggressive once Clinton signed
the bill to grant Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China in 2000.

Look what happened when they held that spy plane and it's crew...


What happened? China joined the WTO in December? That's a good thing.
They'll make agreements through the WTO, and then the WTO will ensure that
they're living up to their agreements.

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...


President Bush wouold be incredibly stupid to threaten them... and while
he may or may not be that stupid... I'd prefer to not find out...

At least we agree on this point.

He *will* say something stupid or obnoxious to the Chinese before his term
is over. You know that. We can only hope he doesn't get his hands on copies
of anything Nixon said back in the late 1950s or early 1960s, and decide to
retread it for one of his speeches.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Doug Kanter wrote:
NPR news reported last week that China is years away from being able to
coordinate its various forces in the way we can now, and that this keeps
them from being as big a threat some would like to believe.

You mean 'NPR the socialist mouthpiece radio station'?? They must have
some kind of nefarious plot if they are saying good things about the US
military!!

Actually, the US could control the Taiwan Straights easily, and the
Chinese could do little except sacrifice their forces... two carrier
battle groups would do it. Their subs are more of a threat than anything
else. They could also plaster Taiwan with rockets.

But we will do nothing of the sort, for one thing (as you yourself pointed
out) we need to keep on China's good side so they'll do something about
North Korea and their nukes, and (as I pointed out) they are holding
enough US debt to drop the dollar to pennies or less.

The Taiwanese have figured out that the US is a broken reed as an ally,
but I'm not sure if they have any plans for what to do next, if China
really decides to annex them.

DSK


Probably not much. If I recall, the same news story said that a Taiwanese
defense toy purchase is now held up in Congress.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Meanwhile....I doubt there are any t-shirt manufacturers left in this
country. They wouldn't need to threaten us economically. All they need to
do
is cut off our supply of clothing.



Not just t-shirts..... Almost all the clothing I see at Sears etc are made
in China. What about all the cheap appliances.
We'd all be shivering standing over an old pot trying to boil water on an
open fire. Great position those $%#^#% CEO's got us in by sending all the
maufacturing jobs overseas. They all should be tried for treason.

What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a pen.


NOYB wrote:
And we could do the same to them.

How?

... But their thirst for US dollars to feed
their military would preclude them from doing such a thing.

"Their thirst for US dollars" is already way way oversatisfied... they
are holding approximately 17 times our annual GDP in US debt...


We'd take it on the chin, but we'd recover a lot more rapidly.

I doubt it very seriously, but I don't want to find out. China dumping
all their US Treasury holdings would collapse the dollar to zero... The
ensuing collapse would make the Great Depression look like kindergarten
picnic.




Look what happened when they held that spy plane and it's crew...



What happened?

President Bush made a few feeble threats, and then fell all over himself
in eagerness to kiss their butts.


... China joined the WTO in December? That's a good thing.
They'll make agreements through the WTO, and then the WTO will ensure that
they're living up to their agreements.


Ya think so? Might want to check on that. The Chinese have gained
enormously, and have forstalled any WTO obligations as far as I've seen.

Think about how Dubya is going to finance another war when the the US
gov't's credit rating is zilcho. Did you pay any attention to what
happened to Russia when they defaulted a few years back? Think about
that scenario repeated here...

DSK

DSK wrote:
"Their thirst for US dollars" is already way way oversatisfied... they
are holding approximately 17 times our annual GDP in US debt...


That figure is not quite correct. The amount of US debt held by Asian
core banks (including Thailand & Singapore) is approximately 17 times
current US GDP. China is well over half that, though, and if China
started dumping, the smart bet is that they all would join in if only to
make a slight recovery before it crashed to zero. Even our old pal Japan
would probably join in.

Of course, we could always nuke 'em. Our ICBMs and warheads are already
paid for!

DSK