Larry C says:
===============
The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.

But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.
==============

Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

frtzw906

BCITORGB wrote:


Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

Well said Wilf. It's funny to see people who are both politically almost
off the far right side of the political scale complain about their
differences. It's troubling to see the ones representing them not only
try to carry out those ideas inside the U.S. but also try to force them
onto the rest of the world. It's even more troubling to see that they
are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

It's very simple: the vast majority of the U.S. population just don't
care what anyone else outside the U.S. thinks. :-(
Being that out of touch with the rest of the world and behaving like it
doesn't matter what anyone else thinks has one drawback though: it does
have its consequences when other people get it in their heads to make it
painfully clear to you that they have a differing opinion. Still,
nothing that can't be hidden (for a while) from the population through a
thick layer of propaganda...

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

A Usenet persona calling itself Wilko wrote:

BCITORGB wrote:


Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

Well said Wilf. It's funny to see people who are both politically almost
off the far right side of the political scale complain about their
differences. It's troubling to see the ones representing them not only
try to carry out those ideas inside the U.S. but also try to force them
onto the rest of the world. It's even more troubling to see that they
are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

Wah. Democracy works. Socialism doesn't. Just ask Stalin's victims.


I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

It's very simple: the vast majority of the U.S. population just don't
care what anyone else outside the U.S. thinks. :-(

We care deeply what you think. We just think you're deluded and oppressed,
and we want to educate you about the benefits of representative democracy
and capitalism, which is what makes the US the most powerful, influential
and free nation on the planet. Caring about what you think does not mean
that we have to accept your fallacious dogmas.

Being that out of touch with the rest of the world and behaving like it
doesn't matter what anyone else thinks has one drawback though: it does
have its consequences when other people get it in their heads to make it
painfully clear to you that they have a differing opinion.

They're entitled to their opinion, even when it's wrong. What they're not
entitled to do is to oppress, enslave, torture, abuse and murder others
because their "opinion" is that they have some right to do so. When they
actualize such "opinions" and oppress others, then the US can, and will step
in to liberate the oppressed and destroy the tyrants. If you don't like
that, then don't oppress others.

Still,
nothing that can't be hidden (for a while) from the population through a
thick layer of propaganda...

I hope you're right, because that way, sooner or later, the veil of
socialist propaganda will be pierced and people will see that they can
obtain security, freedom and happiness by embracing representative democracy
and capitalism.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

On 10-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

Wah. Democracy works. Socialism doesn't.

The irony is that you didn't even get what he said.

We care deeply what you think. We just think you're deluded and oppressed,
and we want to educate you about the benefits of representative democracy
and capitalism, which is what makes the US the most powerful, influential
and free nation on the planet.

So Americans are free and everyone else is oppressed? I guess you've never
read the Patriot Act of other gross abuses of freedom. American influence
is waning because of your arrogance and gradually declining economic status.
100 years ago, Britain was the world power; fifty years later it was broke
and losing influence. Why should anyone believe the yanks will last any
longer given that they pay almost no attention to the reality of what's
going on around them?

To assume that the US is the only free and democratic nation is both naive
and a grotesque misrepresentation of facts.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

On 10-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:


are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

Wah. Democracy works. Socialism doesn't.


The irony is that you didn't even get what he said.

Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks. That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.

So Americans are free and everyone else is oppressed? I guess you've never
read the Patriot Act of other gross abuses of freedom. American influence
is waning because of your arrogance and gradually declining economic status.
100 years ago, Britain was the world power; fifty years later it was broke
and losing influence. Why should anyone believe the yanks will last any
longer given that they pay almost no attention to the reality of what's
going on around them?

My guess is that within my lifetime that becomes very clear to everyone,
even to the portion of the U.S. population that seems to have little
idea about the existance of the world around them.

I wonder who's next in playing the world's most dominant economy and
military power. My bet is on Asia... Maybe our grandchildren will speak
fluent Mandarin (or some other fruit) or Spanish as their main language? ;-)

To assume that the US is the only free and democratic nation is both naive
and a grotesque misrepresentation of facts.

Today I got this sent to me by a Czech friend, who apologized because
she know I have friends from the U.S.. I thought it was funny and in a
way I think it's relevant to this discussion:

---------------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other
territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime
minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who
have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders)
will appoint a minister for America without the need for further
elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of
you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following
rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be
amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U'
will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping
the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you
will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You
will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not
'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You
will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh.
You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope
with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary
to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven
words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is
an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up
"interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer
show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you
shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary
then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on
your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take
account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.
It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to Cockney,
upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to
learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as
"Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're
talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as
Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist
in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g.
Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the
good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play
English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or
"Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy
American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political
incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The
Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you
to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind
of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good
game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You
will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper
football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It
is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed
to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not
involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar
body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US
rugby sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not
reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which
is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that
there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable.
Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called
"rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves,
collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if
they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there
is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "****". You
will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be
allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a
vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to
handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you
wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your
own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we
mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will
start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you
will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of
conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand
the British sense of humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French
fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian
though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in
Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you
insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips
are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to
chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be
trained to be more aggressive with customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to
all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to
be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually
beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter
will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted
provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known
as "American Beer" will henceforth be refered to as "Near-Frozen Knat's
Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser
company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's
Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last
1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

13. From November 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you
will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2001) prices with
the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former
USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly
$6/US gallon - get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns,
lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and
therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns
should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort
things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you’re
not grown up enough to handle a gun.

15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to
ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation.

---------------------------------------------------------------

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

A Usenet persona calling itself Wilko wrote:

Michael Daly wrote:

On 10-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:


are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

Wah. Democracy works. Socialism doesn't.


The irony is that you didn't even get what he said.

Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks. That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.

Disagreeing with you is rather different than not understanding what you
said.


So Americans are free and everyone else is oppressed? I guess you've never
read the Patriot Act of other gross abuses of freedom. American influence
is waning because of your arrogance and gradually declining economic status.
100 years ago, Britain was the world power; fifty years later it was broke
and losing influence. Why should anyone believe the yanks will last any
longer given that they pay almost no attention to the reality of what's
going on around them?

My guess is that within my lifetime that becomes very clear to everyone,
even to the portion of the U.S. population that seems to have little
idea about the existance of the world around them.

Or, do we know about the world but choose not to agree with the way things
are working elsewhere?


I wonder who's next in playing the world's most dominant economy and
military power. My bet is on Asia... Maybe our grandchildren will speak
fluent Mandarin (or some other fruit) or Spanish as their main language? ;-)

You'd better hope not.


To assume that the US is the only free and democratic nation is both naive
and a grotesque misrepresentation of facts.

Today I got this sent to me by a Czech friend, who apologized because
she know I have friends from the U.S.. I thought it was funny and in a
way I think it's relevant to this discussion:

---------------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other
territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime
minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who
have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders)
will appoint a minister for America without the need for further
elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

Snip

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to
ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

And that's WHY we have 270 million privately owned firearms in the US, to
prevent any such eventuality. That makes us free, unlike you.



Thank you for your cooperation.

We'll spank her just like we spanked King George.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

You said:
==============
Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks. That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.
================

I should have considered myself warned. As you've said elsewhere "he
could talk a bent bar straight" (is that a Dutch expression? -- I like
it!).

Now that I've unfrocked him as a closet socialist ("government
assistance to everyone else is bad, but it's good for me if I need it"
is his hypocritical stance. But assistance by any other name is still
socialism -- and what's so bad about that?) I'll perhaps retire.

Walking off into the sunset while dusting my hands in victory over
Scott, I remain,
frtzw906
==============================

BCITORGB wrote:
You said:
==============
Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks.
That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.
================

I should have considered myself warned. As you've said elsewhere "he
could talk a bent bar straight" (is that a Dutch expression? -- I
like
it!).

Now that I've unfrocked him as a closet socialist ("government
assistance to everyone else is bad, but it's good for me if I need
it"
is his hypocritical stance. But assistance by any other name is still
socialism -- and what's so bad about that?) I'll perhaps retire.

Walking off into the sunset while dusting my hands in victory over
Scott, I remain,
frtzw906
==============================

If you must leave, please paddle. Then I may see you again on the river
or lake. TnT

BCITORGB wrote:
You said:
==============
Alas, that's not an uncommon occurrance with him and my remarks. That's
why I've stopped bothering to respond to anything Scott spouts.
================

I should have considered myself warned. As you've said elsewhere "he
could talk a bent bar straight" (is that a Dutch expression? -- I like
it!).

Yep, it's a Dutch expression. Funny thing is that I find that quite a
few of the expressions and sayings that we have here are are used in
exactly the same way (literally translated that is) in other languages.
I guess that good ideas are easier to copy than to invent yourself.
Dutch is for a big part a mix of a bunch of languages, including
English, French and German. :-)

Now that I've unfrocked him as a closet socialist ("government
assistance to everyone else is bad, but it's good for me if I need it"
is his hypocritical stance. But assistance by any other name is still
socialism -- and what's so bad about that?) I'll perhaps retire.

He was one of the main reasons I wrote this page:

http://wilko.webzone.ru/troll.html

Walking off into the sunset while dusting my hands in victory over
Scott, I remain,
frtzw906

Now why do I hear the Lucky Luke tune? ;-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

A Usenet persona calling itself Michael Daly wrote:

On 10-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

Wah. Democracy works. Socialism doesn't.

The irony is that you didn't even get what he said.

Oh but I did.


We care deeply what you think. We just think you're deluded and oppressed,
and we want to educate you about the benefits of representative democracy
and capitalism, which is what makes the US the most powerful, influential
and free nation on the planet.

So Americans are free and everyone else is oppressed?

Pretty much.

I guess you've never
read the Patriot Act of other gross abuses of freedom.

Actually, I have. Have you? Can you cite the "gross abuses of freedom" you
claim the Patriot Act includes?

American influence
is waning because of your arrogance and gradually declining economic status.

Every nation has its ups and downs. Still, people are clamoring to get here
and buy our products.

100 years ago, Britain was the world power; fifty years later it was broke
and losing influence. Why should anyone believe the yanks will last any
longer given that they pay almost no attention to the reality of what's
going on around them?

Not subscribing to the political dogmas of the rest of the world is
different than paying no attention. We pay close attention. We choose not to
subscribe to policies that we believe are harmful to liberty and freedom.


To assume that the US is the only free and democratic nation is both naive
and a grotesque misrepresentation of facts.

Really? Cite me one single nation other than the US that is both democratic
and protects the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.

If you don't have a right to keep and bear arms, you are not, ipso facto,
free, you are a slave to your government because you do not have the
capacity to overthrow it should it become a tyranny.


--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser