Powerboat Reports is the only one who even tries to be objective, they can
be objective because they do not accept advertising. They are the
"Consumer Reports" for boating products. There reports aren't perfect, but
they do their best to be objective.


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dr. Karen Grear MD, PHD" wrote in message
...
Gould,
The post you responded to was on topic. Boat reviews in magazines are
fluff pieces for the boat builder, they read like the boat manufacturer
gave you the piece and you just signed your name. Karen calls these
posts SPAM, and they are. I am amazed you actually try to convenience
anyone they aren't.

A new boater should understand the boat magazines make money by using
their fluff PR pieces to sell ads and to sell reprints of the articles so
the dealers can give them to everyone interested in the boat.

Your contention that the reviews are always positive because every boat
design is superb and all boat manufactures build quality boats shows you
believe the buyers are gullible. Everyone who has responded to my
statement that boat reviews are fluff PR pieces have agreed with me.

Boating magazine is one of the worse. But, hey, what do you expect?
They're a French-owned company.

Powerboat Reports seems very objective in their reviews, however.

NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.

*********



Actual boaters usually have an interest in the opinions that other
people hold about boating related issues. That's one reason they would
visit a boating related discussion group You non boating characters are
only interested in any statement or opinion that gives you a foothold
for picking fight, which is the sole reason you visit a boating
discussion group.

wrote in message
oups.com...
NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.

*********



Actual boaters usually have an interest in the opinions that other
people hold about boating related issues. That's one reason they would
visit a boating related discussion group You non boating characters are
only interested in any statement or opinion that gives you a foothold
for picking fight, which is the sole reason you visit a boating
discussion group.


Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?

Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?

And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

You seem to have a narrow minded view of how a boater is defined.

Lastly, as far as OT posts, I believe you would score in the top percentage
each and every month. The fact that you throw in some spam boat review once
in a while makes it OK?

Looks like what is good for the goose is not good for the gander....eh
Chucky?

hurtwit inquired:

(disclosure, much of his post snipped- this was the operative point. He
will bitch that I didn't copy over his personal insults, but
tough.).....

Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat
to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others
in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating
experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?


Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?


And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel
capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a
custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

************************************************** **

Let's begin with the observation that if a "boater" were participating
in a boating discussion group, at least some of that person's posts
would be about boating. In two or three years, under
Dennis Compton, JimH, and all the other screen names in between you
have made what, 4, 5, 6 (maybe) boating related posts? Vs. 4,5,6
personal attack posts almost every day.

Boat ownership isn't critical. Lots of people charter once or twice a
year, and one could argue that they are "boaters". A lot of boat owners
don't get out that much more than charter boaters do..........but, the
key difference is that they have an interest in boating.

I do not call you a non-boater simply because you don't currently own a
boat. You sold your Maxum (I believe it was) when your wife's health
declined. If we can all hope that her health improves, perhaps you'll
own a boat again some day. When you participate in the NG, you discuss
people- not boats. For example, if you disagree with something I
express as an observation or an opinion you never raise a counter
argument or post a contrasting opinion on the same item, you simply
start spreading crap about hundred dollar bills being stuffed through
my mailbox, etc. You make no pretense about having any boating
knowledge.

Who was it that posted, jut over a year ago, that they only came to
rec.boats to cause trouble and saved their "serious" boating discussion
for other forums? Look in the mirror. You have admitted that you see
your role here is to be as destructive as you can.

You're not a boater because you have never expressed a serious interest
in boating.

No, you don't have to boat "on the ocean" to be a boater.

No, you don't have to own a lobster boat.

Any vessel that will keep you afloat in the water could be loosely
defined as a boat. (or at least a raft). :-)

We can only call 'em as we see 'em. You never post anything about
boating, therefore it is safe to assume you are not a boater. Wouldn't
matter if you had six of them sitting in your driveway, or whether you
took a charter cruise on an annual basis. If you were a boater, you'd
demonstrate an interest in the subject and some ability to discuss or
debate issues rather than
constantly pump your poison pen.

wrote in message
oups.com...
hurtwit inquired:

(disclosure, much of his post snipped- this was the operative point. He
will bitch that I didn't copy over his personal insults, but
tough.).....

Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat
to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others
in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating
experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?


Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?


And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel
capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a
custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

************************************************** **

Let's begin with the observation that if a "boater" were participating
in a boating discussion group, at least some of that person's posts
would be about boating. In two or three years, under
Dennis Compton, JimH, and all the other screen names in between you
have made what, 4, 5, 6 (maybe) boating related posts? Vs. 4,5,6
personal attack posts almost every day.


Wrong. I have made about as many on topic boating related posts as you
have.

As far as personal attacks and OT postings, you remain in 3rd place behind
Basskisser and Krause.


Boat ownership isn't critical. Lots of people charter once or twice a
year, and one could argue that they are "boaters". A lot of boat owners
don't get out that much more than charter boaters do..........but, the
key difference is that they have an interest in boating.

As I do and most folks in this NG.


I do not call you a non-boater simply because you don't currently own a
boat. You sold your Maxum (I believe it was) when your wife's health
declined. If we can all hope that her health improves, perhaps you'll
own a boat again some day.

Her health is not improving. But I will be purchasing a smaller boat (the
Maxum was 35 LOA) when we purchase our retirement house on the water.


When you participate in the NG, you discuss
people- not boats. For example, if you disagree with something I
express as an observation or an opinion you never raise a counter
argument or post a contrasting opinion on the same item, you simply
start spreading crap about hundred dollar bills being stuffed through
my mailbox, etc. You make no pretense about having any boating
knowledge.

As you often do. Just because I don't write a multi paragraph 1,000 word
essay does not mean my point was not expressed properly.



Who was it that posted, jut over a year ago, that they only came to
rec.boats to cause trouble and saved their "serious" boating discussion
for other forums? Look in the mirror.

I was half kidding as you and many others here seem to do that very thing.


You have admitted that you see
your role here is to be as destructive as you can.

Really? I don't think so.

You're not a boater because you have never expressed a serious interest
in boating.

Sure I have, many times.


No, you don't have to boat "on the ocean" to be a boater.

Good.


No, you don't have to own a lobster boat.


Good.


Any vessel that will keep you afloat in the water could be loosely
defined as a boat. (or at least a raft). :-)

Well, I guess I am not boatless then as I still have an Achilles and motor
in the attic.



We can only call 'em as we see 'em. You never post anything about
boating, therefore it is safe to assume you are not a boater.

Not true. You just did not bother to look.

Wouldn't
matter if you had six of them sitting in your driveway, or whether you
took a charter cruise on an annual basis. If you were a boater, you'd
demonstrate an interest in the subject and some ability to discuss or
debate issues rather than
constantly pump your poison pen.


Pot-kettle-black.

BTW: Let's see if you can live by your own rules now. I summarized them
for you:

1. No name calling. You can start by dropping the childish change of my
last name.
2. No dicussions of people...just boats. No politics. No religion. No
union talk.
3. Serious boating discussion only. No joking around about anything
related to boats. You must remain focussed and serious.
4. No personal attacks. I don't want to hear "but Mom, he started it".

Now that we have that straight let me say a couple of more things.

One can be a boater yet not want to constantly participate in boating only
discussions in a remote boating NG. If a topic is not of interest why
participate in it? Do you just talk boats 24/7 Chuck?

I have seen boating topics being discussed ad nauseum. I have seen boating
topics discussed here that turned into nothing but name calling and personal
attacks. Boating was still being discussed so I guess that is acceptable to
you.

You don't set the rules nor dictate them to me. I do hope, however, that
*you* start following the rules you have now set.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:
NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.

*********



Actual boaters usually have an interest in the opinions that other
people hold about boating related issues. That's one reason they would
visit a boating related discussion group You non boating characters are
only interested in any statement or opinion that gives you a foothold
for picking fight, which is the sole reason you visit a boating
discussion group.



I agree with Chuck. I read his reports on boats because I find them
interesting. No one is doing the testing on new boats that real
comparative reviews require, and that includes the rather dull,
overpriced, "no advertising" newsletter to which some refer here.

If I'm buying a small, new boat, I am capable of judging its quality and
after a ride in choppy water, judging its capabilities. If it is a larger
boat, I depend upon my knowledge base, the opinions of others, and when
necessary, experts one can hire for their "expert" opinion.

I read Chuck's stuff and the stuff in other magazines because I like
reading about boats, not because I want to find something to nitpick.

We are plagued in this newsgroup by non-boating buttwipers. There seems to
be nothing that can be done about it.

Is this the real Harry or the Tuuked Harry?

JimH protested:

Wrong. I have made about as many on topic boating related posts as you

have.

*******************

Hate to break this to you, but look up your posting history in Google.
The archives are not your friend when you make this claim.

"Gould is a lying asshole" is not a boating related post, even if
interjected into a boating related thread. "Harry is a lying asshole"
doesn't count, either, nor do attacks on jps, basskisser, or any of
your other prefered victims.

I am not saying that you don't participate in boating related threads,
only that you do not participate with any boating related comments or
content. That's an unassailable fact.
Prove me wrong by listing several examples of posts you have made
regarding boating issues, (where those posts are not merely serving as
a vehicle for name calling and personal attack), rather than by simply
denying the painfully obvious. Sadly, you cannot, and if you respond to
this challenge it will be with some witty phrase like "pot, kettle,
black". :-(

You claim to have an interest in boats or boating, but actions speak
louder than words and yours indicate only an interest in lobbing insult
and seeking personal confrontations. Hey, everybody has to have a
hobby. Yours is plainly evident. No big deal, but why make a pretense
that your behavior is the fault of someone else, justified by something
somebody else does, and better or worse than the behavior of another
participant? It's not unreasonable to assume you are putting your best
foot forward- and from a boating perspective nobody could possibly be
even taking note, let alone impressed.

Love to stick around and chat, but coffee break's over and I need to
get back to work. There's a severe shortage of hundred dollar bills in
this morning's mail, and If I'm going to buy up the rest of your
neighborhood I'll have to write 2-3 more reviews. :-)

wrote in message
ups.com...
JimH protested:

Wrong. I have made about as many on topic boating related posts as you

have.

*******************

Hate to break this to you, but look up your posting history in Google.
The archives are not your friend when you make this claim.

"Gould is a lying asshole" is not a boating related post, even if
interjected into a boating related thread. "Harry is a lying asshole"
doesn't count, either, nor do attacks on jps, basskisser, or any of
your other prefered victims.

I am not saying that you don't participate in boating related threads,
only that you do not participate with any boating related comments or
content. That's an unassailable fact.
Prove me wrong by listing several examples of posts you have made
regarding boating issues, (where those posts are not merely serving as
a vehicle for name calling and personal attack), rather than by simply
denying the painfully obvious. Sadly, you cannot, and if you respond to
this challenge it will be with some witty phrase like "pot, kettle,
black". :-(

You claim to have an interest in boats or boating, but actions speak
louder than words and yours indicate only an interest in lobbing insult
and seeking personal confrontations. Hey, everybody has to have a
hobby. Yours is plainly evident. No big deal, but why make a pretense
that your behavior is the fault of someone else, justified by something
somebody else does, and better or worse than the behavior of another
participant? It's not unreasonable to assume you are putting your best
foot forward- and from a boating perspective nobody could possibly be
even taking note, let alone impressed.

Love to stick around and chat, but coffee break's over and I need to
get back to work. There's a severe shortage of hundred dollar bills in
this morning's mail, and If I'm going to buy up the rest of your
neighborhood I'll have to write 2-3 more reviews. :-)



Chuck's rule #2. No discussions of people...just boats. Broken.

Chuck's rule #4. No personal attacks. Broken.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:38:56 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:15:53 -0500, John H
wrote:

On 9 Feb 2005 18:12:15 -0800, wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've never seen a major mfg. boat that is totally unsuited for safe and
appropriate use by somebody, under the right conditions. Two equally
knowledgeable boaters will evaluate the same boat, and one might rule
it out immediately and go on to buy something else, while the other
likes it so much he writes a check on the spot. Which one was "right"?
(Hint: most likely both, they simply prioritized different needs).

I really didn't expect an objective, million-dollar test. I just wanted your
subjective opinion of how the three boats compared in your experience.

Any boat looks, rides and feels good first time around - it takes time
to find the little things that annoy or fail. I really like my Ranger
and would hate to part with it, but over the four years I've owned it,
there are things that I notice that annoy the hell out of me - the
worst being the placement of the forward seat post.

That's why I have a thing about Bluefin boats. They aren't the
prettiest nor are they cosmetically perfect, but the damn things ride
like a dream in all weather, are very nicely fit out for fishing and
tough as hell.

Another boat that I have been consistently impressed with are the
Polar series boats. They are good looking, form/fit/function are damn
close to perfect and they are very nicely laid out from an ergonomic
standpoint.

We've had this magazine "pro/con" debate before. For my money, if you
want a truly objective report, ask owners about the boat, not the
dealer. A lot of negative boat reports are related to the dealer, not
the boat. You can get a good idea from the manufacturer's information
and reading "test" reports in the magazines, but you will get closer
to the truth by asking owners.

Later,

Tom

Agree with what you say, although I've found that owners are usually somewhat
biased.

I thought, if Chuck had 'test driven' the three boats he could provide some
feedback on his perceptions.

If he can't, he can't. No big deal.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes