Gould,

Since you used the movie metaphor, lets follow the thread a little farther.

If you read a movie critic who thinks every movie he sees is wonderful, you
would begin to question the critic's ability to provide a review one can
believe in. When one reads "boat reviews", the "reviewer" always loves the
boat. There are movie critics who can be bought. The distributors give
them a airline ticket to Hollywood, put them up in a 5 star hotel and the
distributor is guaranteed a 5 star review. These movie "critics" are
whores, who sell themselves for the price of an airline ticket and hotel.

The difference between these unreliable movie critics and Boat reviewers are
the price they charge to sell out. Boat Reviewers use ad dollars as the
price to give a great review, they might also be persuaded by perks offered
by the mfg. There are many reliable movie critics who are not whores, the
same came not be said about boat reviewers.

You boat review provided a valuable service, because it highlighted the need
for boat buyers to take what they read in boat mags with a grain of salt.






wrote in message
oups.com...
Nonsense.

To do a truly objective test, you not only need to run the compared
boats on the same day under the same conditions, you need to do like
Consumer Reports does and actually buy the products, anonymously, at
retail, from a dealer. Otherwise, how can you be certain that somebody
hasn't "tweaked" something just a bit? In Herring's example, we would
spend what, a quarter million bucks? To make sure we got undoctored
boats for a single article?

I know this is a hard concept for many of you to understand, and the
posts of some here certainly support my observations, but it is
possible to comment on Thing A without running down Thing B or Thing C
at the same time.

Most of the items a shopper will consider are subjective, and subject
to individual preference.

You guys seem to expect an objective comparison between top sirloin,
lamb, and lobster and some definitive answer about which meal is
"best". When you read a restaurant review, do you fault the reviewer
for failing to comment on every other Chinese joint in town?

How about movie critics? Can a critic say anything useful about "Lord
of the Rings" without discussing "Ray", "The Titanic", and "Glory"?

Boat reviews point out the highlights, and any glaring deficiencies in
a boat. You don't read that many with glaring deficiencies because by
the time a builder gets to major mfg status, the market weeds out the
guys building true crap.

I've never seen a major mfg. boat that is totally unsuited for safe and
appropriate use by somebody, under the right conditions. Two equally
knowledgeable boaters will evaluate the same boat, and one might rule
it out immediately and go on to buy something else, while the other
likes it so much he writes a check on the spot. Which one was "right"?
(Hint: most likely both, they simply prioritized different needs).

The man of a thousand screen names bitched:

You boat review provided a valuable service, because it highlighted the
need
for boat buyers to take what they read in boat mags with a grain of
salt.

**********************

Yeah, yeah. Yawn. Say, when was the last time you or Hurtwit posted
anything *on* topic?
How much salt is required to deal with a guy who hangs out in a boating
NG and doesn't boat?

Gould,
The post you responded to was on topic. Boat reviews in magazines are fluff
pieces for the boat builder, they read like the boat manufacturer gave you
the piece and you just signed your name. Karen calls these posts SPAM, and
they are. I am amazed you actually try to convenience anyone they aren't.

A new boater should understand the boat magazines make money by using their
fluff PR pieces to sell ads and to sell reprints of the articles so the
dealers can give them to everyone interested in the boat.

Your contention that the reviews are always positive because every boat
design is superb and all boat manufactures build quality boats shows you
believe the buyers are gullible. Everyone who has responded to my statement
that boat reviews are fluff PR pieces have agreed with me. NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.


oups.com...
The man of a thousand screen names bitched:

You boat review provided a valuable service, because it highlighted the
need
for boat buyers to take what they read in boat mags with a grain of
salt.

**********************

Yeah, yeah. Yawn. Say, when was the last time you or Hurtwit posted
anything *on* topic?
How much salt is required to deal with a guy who hangs out in a boating
NG and doesn't boat?

"Dr. Karen Grear MD, PHD" wrote in message
...
Gould,
The post you responded to was on topic. Boat reviews in magazines are
fluff pieces for the boat builder, they read like the boat manufacturer
gave you the piece and you just signed your name. Karen calls these posts
SPAM, and they are. I am amazed you actually try to convenience anyone
they aren't.

A new boater should understand the boat magazines make money by using
their fluff PR pieces to sell ads and to sell reprints of the articles so
the dealers can give them to everyone interested in the boat.

Your contention that the reviews are always positive because every boat
design is superb and all boat manufactures build quality boats shows you
believe the buyers are gullible. Everyone who has responded to my
statement that boat reviews are fluff PR pieces have agreed with me.

Boating magazine is one of the worse. But, hey, what do you expect? They're
a French-owned company.

Powerboat Reports seems very objective in their reviews, however.

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dr. Karen Grear MD, PHD" wrote in message
...
Gould,
The post you responded to was on topic. Boat reviews in magazines are
fluff pieces for the boat builder, they read like the boat manufacturer
gave you the piece and you just signed your name. Karen calls these
posts SPAM, and they are. I am amazed you actually try to convenience
anyone they aren't.

A new boater should understand the boat magazines make money by using
their fluff PR pieces to sell ads and to sell reprints of the articles so
the dealers can give them to everyone interested in the boat.

Your contention that the reviews are always positive because every boat
design is superb and all boat manufactures build quality boats shows you
believe the buyers are gullible. Everyone who has responded to my
statement that boat reviews are fluff PR pieces have agreed with me.

Boating magazine is one of the worse.

"worst"

Powerboat Reports is the only one who even tries to be objective, they can
be objective because they do not accept advertising. They are the
"Consumer Reports" for boating products. There reports aren't perfect, but
they do their best to be objective.


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dr. Karen Grear MD, PHD" wrote in message
...
Gould,
The post you responded to was on topic. Boat reviews in magazines are
fluff pieces for the boat builder, they read like the boat manufacturer
gave you the piece and you just signed your name. Karen calls these
posts SPAM, and they are. I am amazed you actually try to convenience
anyone they aren't.

A new boater should understand the boat magazines make money by using
their fluff PR pieces to sell ads and to sell reprints of the articles so
the dealers can give them to everyone interested in the boat.

Your contention that the reviews are always positive because every boat
design is superb and all boat manufactures build quality boats shows you
believe the buyers are gullible. Everyone who has responded to my
statement that boat reviews are fluff PR pieces have agreed with me.

Boating magazine is one of the worse. But, hey, what do you expect?
They're a French-owned company.

Powerboat Reports seems very objective in their reviews, however.

NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.

*********



Actual boaters usually have an interest in the opinions that other
people hold about boating related issues. That's one reason they would
visit a boating related discussion group You non boating characters are
only interested in any statement or opinion that gives you a foothold
for picking fight, which is the sole reason you visit a boating
discussion group.

wrote in message
oups.com...
NO boater in the
group buys into your BS.

*********



Actual boaters usually have an interest in the opinions that other
people hold about boating related issues. That's one reason they would
visit a boating related discussion group You non boating characters are
only interested in any statement or opinion that gives you a foothold
for picking fight, which is the sole reason you visit a boating
discussion group.


Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?

Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?

And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

You seem to have a narrow minded view of how a boater is defined.

Lastly, as far as OT posts, I believe you would score in the top percentage
each and every month. The fact that you throw in some spam boat review once
in a while makes it OK?

Looks like what is good for the goose is not good for the gander....eh
Chucky?

hurtwit inquired:

(disclosure, much of his post snipped- this was the operative point. He
will bitch that I didn't copy over his personal insults, but
tough.).....

Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat
to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others
in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating
experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?


Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?


And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel
capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a
custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

************************************************** **

Let's begin with the observation that if a "boater" were participating
in a boating discussion group, at least some of that person's posts
would be about boating. In two or three years, under
Dennis Compton, JimH, and all the other screen names in between you
have made what, 4, 5, 6 (maybe) boating related posts? Vs. 4,5,6
personal attack posts almost every day.

Boat ownership isn't critical. Lots of people charter once or twice a
year, and one could argue that they are "boaters". A lot of boat owners
don't get out that much more than charter boaters do..........but, the
key difference is that they have an interest in boating.

I do not call you a non-boater simply because you don't currently own a
boat. You sold your Maxum (I believe it was) when your wife's health
declined. If we can all hope that her health improves, perhaps you'll
own a boat again some day. When you participate in the NG, you discuss
people- not boats. For example, if you disagree with something I
express as an observation or an opinion you never raise a counter
argument or post a contrasting opinion on the same item, you simply
start spreading crap about hundred dollar bills being stuffed through
my mailbox, etc. You make no pretense about having any boating
knowledge.

Who was it that posted, jut over a year ago, that they only came to
rec.boats to cause trouble and saved their "serious" boating discussion
for other forums? Look in the mirror. You have admitted that you see
your role here is to be as destructive as you can.

You're not a boater because you have never expressed a serious interest
in boating.

No, you don't have to boat "on the ocean" to be a boater.

No, you don't have to own a lobster boat.

Any vessel that will keep you afloat in the water could be loosely
defined as a boat. (or at least a raft). :-)

We can only call 'em as we see 'em. You never post anything about
boating, therefore it is safe to assume you are not a boater. Wouldn't
matter if you had six of them sitting in your driveway, or whether you
took a charter cruise on an annual basis. If you were a boater, you'd
demonstrate an interest in the subject and some ability to discuss or
debate issues rather than
constantly pump your poison pen.

wrote in message
oups.com...
hurtwit inquired:

(disclosure, much of his post snipped- this was the operative point. He
will bitch that I didn't copy over his personal insults, but
tough.).....

Just curious Chuck. Do you actually believe that one has to own a boat
to
be a boater? That seems to be your mindset, along with several others
in
this NG.

Does past ownership count? Does "x" number of years of boating
experience
count? Does continued boating on boats not owned count?


Does one have to boat on the ocean to fit your definition of a boater?


And exactly what is your definition of a boat? Is it any vessel
capable of
floating while carrying a person aboard? Or does it have to be a
custom
made 36 foot Lobster boat?

************************************************** **

Let's begin with the observation that if a "boater" were participating
in a boating discussion group, at least some of that person's posts
would be about boating. In two or three years, under
Dennis Compton, JimH, and all the other screen names in between you
have made what, 4, 5, 6 (maybe) boating related posts? Vs. 4,5,6
personal attack posts almost every day.


Wrong. I have made about as many on topic boating related posts as you
have.

As far as personal attacks and OT postings, you remain in 3rd place behind
Basskisser and Krause.


Boat ownership isn't critical. Lots of people charter once or twice a
year, and one could argue that they are "boaters". A lot of boat owners
don't get out that much more than charter boaters do..........but, the
key difference is that they have an interest in boating.

As I do and most folks in this NG.


I do not call you a non-boater simply because you don't currently own a
boat. You sold your Maxum (I believe it was) when your wife's health
declined. If we can all hope that her health improves, perhaps you'll
own a boat again some day.

Her health is not improving. But I will be purchasing a smaller boat (the
Maxum was 35 LOA) when we purchase our retirement house on the water.


When you participate in the NG, you discuss
people- not boats. For example, if you disagree with something I
express as an observation or an opinion you never raise a counter
argument or post a contrasting opinion on the same item, you simply
start spreading crap about hundred dollar bills being stuffed through
my mailbox, etc. You make no pretense about having any boating
knowledge.

As you often do. Just because I don't write a multi paragraph 1,000 word
essay does not mean my point was not expressed properly.



Who was it that posted, jut over a year ago, that they only came to
rec.boats to cause trouble and saved their "serious" boating discussion
for other forums? Look in the mirror.

I was half kidding as you and many others here seem to do that very thing.


You have admitted that you see
your role here is to be as destructive as you can.

Really? I don't think so.

You're not a boater because you have never expressed a serious interest
in boating.

Sure I have, many times.


No, you don't have to boat "on the ocean" to be a boater.

Good.


No, you don't have to own a lobster boat.


Good.


Any vessel that will keep you afloat in the water could be loosely
defined as a boat. (or at least a raft). :-)

Well, I guess I am not boatless then as I still have an Achilles and motor
in the attic.



We can only call 'em as we see 'em. You never post anything about
boating, therefore it is safe to assume you are not a boater.

Not true. You just did not bother to look.

Wouldn't
matter if you had six of them sitting in your driveway, or whether you
took a charter cruise on an annual basis. If you were a boater, you'd
demonstrate an interest in the subject and some ability to discuss or
debate issues rather than
constantly pump your poison pen.


Pot-kettle-black.