On 13 Jan 2004 17:20:22 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

The "Gang of Seven" should go to jail for 90-days, and see if it improves
rec.boats.
There are seven personalities here causing most of the trouble. While the
number of people involved in the general ruckus certainly exceeds seven, it is
my opinion that the following posters, (listed in alphabetical order), are
primarily responsible for the increasingly nasty tone and OT content of
rec.boats. Others not listed below are merely co-dependent:


Gould0738: May know a little about boats, but contributes to general chaos.
Starts few OT threads, but participates freely. Encourages the liberals and p's
off the conservatives. He can be extremely vindictive. Seldom wins or loses
graciously. This reckless, maverick, self centered personality bends and/or
disregards most rules that others rely on to establish social structure. His
free-for-all attitudes are generally incompatible with the NG format.

Harry Krause: A perpetual troublemaker who views rec.boats as a personal
playground. Talks "down" to everybody even when not trying to do so. A major
originator of OT posts. In common with the other members of the gang of seven,
he puts his own need to express opinions and
argue points above the general welfare of the group.

Jim: Has appeared in rec.boats as at least two separate personalities, both of
them
extremely combative. Contributes to the negative atmosphere by firing off cheap
insults at posters he disagrees with. Has very little actual boating
experience, and virtually never contributes anything on topic. Once said "I
come to rec.boats just to stir up trouble. I go elsewhere for real boating
newsgroups".

jps: A relentless cutter-and-paster of newspaper articles critical of George
Bush
and the right wing in general. Possibly feels that his behavior is justified
because of the ready audience he finds in the NG.
A source of much of the OT material in the NG.

Karen Smith: owns all or part of a boatyard
in Australia. Visits rec.boats primarily to argue and call names. When the
group was more on-topic, she demonized everyone (else) involved in the marine
business. Now that the group has devolved to more off-topic material, she has
decided that she's really a displaced American conservative (and that the evil
enemies are all the liberals in the world), so the names and the flames can
continue undiminished.

NOYB: A fledgling dentist from Naples, FLA, who is listed as a participant in a
few dozen newsgroups. Not sure he owns a boat. Never posts on topic. He is the
counter-point to jps, cutting and pasting general news articles favorable to
George Bush and the right wing in general. Most honest, and likely the most
extreme of all rec.boats conservatives. A major author of OT threads.

Wally: A lesser version of the Jim/Dennis Compton profile.Typical post is two
lines of insulting response to an OT comment. Contributes very little as far as
the nominal topic goes, but adds significantly to the combative, adversarial
atmosphere in the NG. Unable to engage in civil debate. Has no ability to
respect contrasting opinion. He may well be fairly intelligent, but fails to
present as such in this format.

Anyhow, I think this is such a good idea and holds such promise that I hereby
adopt it. I'm out of here for at least 90-days
(leaving you all with a gang of only six) and by my example I challenge my
fellow trouble makers to do the same.

If I check back at the end of that time it will be interesting to see if any of
the other trouble makers agreed with my suggestion for a time out, and whether
the group improves in tone or content as a result.

(There will be very little point in flaming my comments above......I won't be
around to read your remarks. If you're included in my list and need to get
"even", send me an e-mail. Thanks)


Well, there will go at least half of my posts! Good post, Chuck. You
have yet to **** me off, so I must not be a conservative!


John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:15:08 -0500, John H
wrote:

Well, there will go at least half of my posts! Good post, Chuck. You
have yet to **** me off, so I must not be a conservative!

================================================== ====

Chuck is a good example of someone who can disagree without being
disagreeable.

It's an art that others here should strive to perfect, on topic or
off.

Wayne.B wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:15:08 -0500, John H
wrote:

Well, there will go at least half of my posts! Good post, Chuck. You
have yet to **** me off, so I must not be a conservative!

================================================== ====

Chuck is a good example of someone who can disagree without being
disagreeable.

It's an art that others here should strive to perfect, on topic or
off.

It's all Harry's fault! Just shut Harry up and it all ends. Harry
makes a post and the rest high five him and take turns until someone
answers, thus starts the war. If Harry did not start it, JPS and
Kanter and basskisser would not get in as they don't seem to be able
to generate original thoughts, or if they do, have the balls to admit
them. And if no-one answered the cut n paste mentality would get old,
fast. The highfiving would not start and Gould would not get in, the
highfiving would not start and Jim, John, me, and the rest would not
finally feel compelled to join in with more rational thinking which
tends to get Gould into the picture too.
OK, that was kind of sarcasm, and I am not as clever as Gould with
masking the insults, but keep reading, as I do really have a solution
based on a formula that works in another unmoderated usenet group. So
here we go...

We all know that Harry will never stop as he is the one with the most
to lose here if his political agenda is not served, or if UILLCO gets
nabbed. The only real way to save this group is for someone other than
the shills to give a stand a try. Really, do you expect the shills to
care at all about the group? Anyway, Jim, John, Clams, Wayne, et al,
we should try the rec.boats.builders approach to it. Absolutely ignore
it and it will go away. I know you say it won't, but it will, and the
proof is there at that group. We just don't address or acknowledge the
ot or even spammers for the most part and they usually take their
marbles and go away when they find that there is no one willing to
play there, no money to be made, nobody to impress, nobody to fight
with, nobody at all, nobody. How bout' it guys? Gould and the rest
don't need to go away; they just need to be completely ignored when
posting OT. We can take a stand, not count on them to do it, let them
stay, no 90 day exclude. Let them post ot, high five each other, etc.
After a month or so of no one to argue with, no attention at all, they
will slowly taper off. And if they don't, who cares, with no
opposition, no excitement, just the same old rhetoric over and over
again, even the gawkers, you know, those of us who just end up
getting pulled in by the trainwreck curiosity factor will stop paying
attention.

So since this must get political, I put up this challenge to the the
moderates, liberals, and conservatives who want this group back. When
JPS, Harry, Kanter or whoever posts a off topic and the rest start pig
piling on to see if they can get a rise out of the opposition just
don't do it, don't answer, no matter how hard it is, take the high
road, prove who is really the better group.
Now there will be no need for tallies, as we remember what happens to
tallies when they start going the wrong way;-0... But if you really
want to see it in action like I said, go to the builders group, of
course a lot may also have to do with the fact that most in the
builders group are doer's not just talkers... But I still don't see
why it would not work here.
Scotty

__________________________________________________ ___________________________
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you
can love your country but despise your government."
Bill Clinton
Speaking at Michigan State University
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

And yet just this morning you felt the need to weigh in with your "more
rational thinking" to the ridiculous ACLU thread. Your proposal has merit,
your personal devotion to it appears questionable.

I should just note that the usegroup I mentioned in my previous
thread, though unmoderated, had 2 OT threads (and one of them was tool
related spam which some readers do not even consider ot) in the last
75 threads.
Scotty, we can take the news group back...