"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1106014598.260382.303640
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

John Fereira wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1105919192.042039.143900
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


John Fereira wrote:


BTW, to Tinkertom...where is the triple black diamond run at
Keystone?
When I skied there they only had one black diamond run and it was
pretty marginal for that classification.

There you go getting me confused with the facts. That was 15 years
ago or so, and I thought it was Keystone, but then it might have
been a green run as well. All I remember was this human snowball
slowly rolling down the slope.

It's certainly not uncommon. If I remember correctly the only black
diamond run at Keystone was also just under one of the main chairs
that went up the mountain from the parking lot.

It couldn't have been very steep if he was slowly rolling. I've seen
quite a few people fall on steep slopes, start sliding, and then begin
to gain speed. There are a couple of runs at Squaw Valley (where I
learned to ski) that are notorius for that (west face of KT-22 is one
of them). The biggest problem is that once you've fallen you really
have no control whatsoever once you start sliding. I know of a couple
of instances where people have fallen, started sliding, and eventually
hit a tree and died.


I will tell you another OT story, which is my favorite, and has to
do with the worlds greatest athelete (well at least IMHO)


This has to do when I was learning to ski, and I was playing the
part of the human snowball. I had taken 3 or 4 days of lessons, and
the instructor told me I just needed to go out and get time on the
slopes.

It's good advice for kayaking too.

BTW, have you read "Deep Trouble"? Considering your safety concerns
you probably should. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from
the book.

John, when your ski instructor tells you to get some longer skis, and
go out and get some time on the slope, that is pretty near the "Voice
of God" speaking.

Although I've taken quite a few kayaking lessons I never did take many
skiing lessons. I took one the first season and then about 8 years later
look some racing clinic classes. I haven't done much skiing in the last 10
years or so and still haven't bought a pair of the shorter shaped skis. I
still have a pair of Rossignol 3G kevlar giant slalom cut skis that are
203cm (which is pretty long for someone my size).

I know how old Noah felt when he was told to build a
boat, and I suspect that the same applies today when you are told to
get some time in the kayak. Question though, is it alright to wait for
the ice to thaw off of the lakes and streams. Most are pretty well
covered by hard water now.

Of course it's alright to wait. Have you looked into any local clubs that
might do winter pool sessions? The spot where I normally launch my boat
probably has a foot of ice on it now but a local group does pool sessions
once a month so I at least get to practice some rolls and help others learn
new skills.


Regarding wimpy Colorado ski runs, you may be right, and it seems that
I have heard this discussion before.

I really wasn't denigrating Colorado ski run ratings in general but I have
never seen a 3 diamond rating anywhere. I've seen a couple of places that
rated some very difficult runs as 2 diamond though.

I started skiing late, when 40,
and have skied about 100 days since then. My best ski buddy was Elmer
at Loveland who made the news every year since they reserved the number
one chair for him on opening day. At 70+ he was a great skier, and
skied most ever day. His attitude was that if he was having a good
time, what difference did it make what others thought of him, or how
tough Colorado runs were, though he did say it a little more
colorfully.

I ran into a guy in the lodge at Squaw Valley one time that asked to sit in
a chair at the table where I was seated. We got to talking and he gleefully
said that it was great weather for his first time this season. Actually,
what he meant was that it was the first time he had ever skied. He said he
was 65.


Having only skied here in Colorado, I can not compare the runs here to
anywhere else. Outhouse at Mary Jane is supposed to be pretty steep,
and a few others at MJ in the Railyard. Peak 10 at Brekenridge is
suppose to be pretty gnarly, and OutBack at Keystone. A-Basin is where
they hold the downhill speed trials, so if you want fast, that is the
place. Pavilcelli at A-Basin is nasty coming off the front side, often
times closed because not enough snow (too steep to hold it.) Crested
Butte holds some kind of extreme ski competition that has world class
skiers demonstrating ski carnage.

Colorado certainly compares favorably in terms of difficult runs to anywhere
I have skied. Breckenridge does indeed have some steep stuff and I spent
every day for four weeks skiing A-Basin, althought I thought there were a
couple of runs more difficult than Pavicelli (if you don't drop in off the
cornice).

I've skied several resorts in Colorado but still jones to ski "the plunge"
at Telluride.



I can look forward to skiing some of the other areas such as Squaw Mtn,
Jackson Hole, or Utah, but for the time being, I definitly have a good
time in Colorado.

If you get out west Squaw Valley is hard to beat but Alpine Meadows and
Kirkwood also have some really good challenging runs. I dislocated a thumb
on Olympic at Kirkwood (at the time rated the 4th longest/steepest run in
North America). I never have skied Utah but I've been to Jackson Hole and
was fortunate to get to ski Chamonix in the French Alps a couple of years
ago. I spent most of my early days skiing around Lake Tahoe, primarily at
Squaw Valley.


The back country skiing can be favorably compare to other areas. I saw
a guy jump off a cornice and land 150 ft down the mtn. and keep going.

I saw Steve McKinney (who held the fastest person on skis record a couple of
times) jump off a cornice at Squaw Valley. I expected him to turn after
landing but he just kept his skies pointing down the fall line. He was
really flying when he went by me.



BTW, yes I have read Deep Trouble, and a lot of other books, and online
articles. A few years back when I started looking at kayaking as a way
to extend my fun, I was all excited about the prospects. That first
year, an aquaintance went WW kayaking, and caught a barbed wire fence
across his neck. Basically, took his head off, and sort of gave me a
wakeup call as to really think about what I was contemplating. Lots of
folks go kayaking, and have a good time, just don't lose your head over
it! TnT

I hate it when that happens.

"Melissa" wrote in message
...
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Hi Bob,

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:41:11 -0800, you wrote:

It really is a sport that is not for everyone.

I think that paddling is one of those things that you know very
quickly, one way or the other, if you're going to really get into it
or not. I knew after my first one hour rental that it would be a
great passion of mine for the rest of my life. A feeling like that
doesn't lie! :-)

- --
Melissa

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It worked that way for me also. I grew up with many small fishing boats in
the family and I loved them all. I even own one right now. But it has not
been in the water more than once in the last 2 years because I went kayaking
once 3 years ago and now my boating is done in a sea kayak or a rec kayak. I
don't have enough time on the water to let the fishing boat get in the way
of kayaking.

Ken

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:11:24 GMT, "Paul Skoczylas"
wrote:
"Tom McCloud" wrote in message ...
Paul, I did a section of the Red Deer,

The Red Deer has many sections. The parts of interest to whitewater paddlers are all upstream of Sundre. The main section starts
where the Forestry Trunk Road crosses the river, at Mountain Aire Lodge.

Paul, That name Sundrie sounds familiar. Faint memories of
crossing the river, turning left (upriver), and in a few hundred
yards, on the left, there is a small park/ picnic area. This was our
take-out. Went up above there maybe 8-9 miles or so. Really can't
recall the put-in, except that it was a short carry, then down a steep
bank onto rock. I think we drove a gravel road over a pretty good
hill looking for a put-in and didn't find anything, so backtracked,
and kind of headed back a trail in the woods. I don't believe we had
as much as 20 cms, but it was fun. I'd do this one again if I was
ever in the neighborhood. Tom McCloud

"Walt" wrote in message
...
Tinkerntom wrote:

Winter time being a great time for story telling, and having been
involved in some story telling on another thread, I thought I would try
moving in to its own topic. I know there are some good stories and
story tellers out there, and we're all ready for a good laugh or sigh.


It's a story all right. As in "Tall Tale."

There is no such thing as a "Triple Black Diamond" at Keystone or anywhere
else in Colorado. It's sort of like telling a story about a class nine
rapid.

I'd like to know how the subject of the story got to the Outback if he
couldn't ski, as it's the third mountain back from the front, and you have
to do quite a bit of skiing to get there. And there's no triple black
diamonds there! At all. Just some greyish blackish ones.

ant

Hey Melissa, that was real purty and to the point. My wife and I love
to just go to the lake, and bob around. No place in particular to go,
just lose yourself in the moment of water and clouds, and a big sky.
Usually after work, and we watch the sun set. It is just too easy to
get caught up in our concrete/asphalt/steel/smoggy rushing world, and
it is very refreshing to step back, and realize that there is so much
more to life.

I first fell in love with boats, when as a ladd, I was allowed by my
parents to go on a sailboat down at Galveston. We never got so far away
that we could not see the dock. But when you get hooked, your a goner.
Before that, I would go to the amusement park, where we could ride the
little boats that go around in circles. You could ride for along time
with a hand full of tickets. My folks would try to get me to ride other
rides, but I was quite content going around in circles. So when I got
to go out on the big sail boat (maybe 15 ft) I think I died and went to
heaven.

Somewhere along the line I saw in a Popular Mech mag, about the folding
boats, and have wanted one for the last 40 years. Last year I finally
bought a Folbot Super, which is an older model (72, last made in mid
80's), that I found on an internet bulletin board. She is old, and
probably way to slow for some of the hotrodders around, but she is
beautiful, and she has a sail rig. I am really looking forward to
getting her on the water this summer.

It is amazing how those dreams get inside you and just ache to see the
light of day. TnT

I have a friend, that thought he was a pretty good skier, and tried the
speed run at A-Basin. He wiped out, about half way down, and left a
trail of skiies and gear scattered along the almost mile long runnout.
When he stopped sliding, he just lay there, and we thought that he was
dead. Afterwards we ask him, and he said he just laid there because
after sliding for approx 3500 ft he was not sure himself whether he was
alive or not. Says he won't do that again! Gives you a real
appreciation for the masters!

Another book that I got to thinking about that I read, and which had a
major impact on me, was "Into the Void." It is amazing what the human
form is capable of bringing onto themselves, and how tough,
enterprising, and foolish we can be, all at the same time! I love the
mountains, and the high places, but I decided that the technical
climbing was for someone else, though I enjoy randonee skiing totally!
TnT

I think I acknowledged that my memory may be fuzzy as to it being the
OutBack, and that it may have been a green run for that matter. That's
what happens when you get older, too many stories, and they get all
mixed up together. However the basic story was correct, so I apologize
to you and all, if you had trouble connecting the dots in my story. TnT

I spent three years in Chiapas, Mex. living with the indians in their
villages. They played a communal sport, where they would kick a ball
like soccer down the trail, trying to get it to the opposing village.
The point was to intercept the opposing team before they got to your
village. Understand, the trails were narrow, and the hill sides steep
and vegetated. It seems that a great deal of time was spent running up
and down the side hills, trying to return the ball to the bounds of
the trail. These games would last for days, and usually only when one
side got totally exhausted. The whole village would come out to play or
watch, and even the watchers would bring food for their team. Everyone
would be shouting and laughing, and carrying on, and apparently having
a good time. Often times when the games got started, it was just a
couple of kids practicing on the trail. No organization, no team
uniforms, etc. They just knew each other, and where each belonged, and
when one team won, it was just for the bragging rights until they got
to playing again.

Now I share all this because we have our own concept of what is sports,
and how do you participate. For some paddling is not a sport, it is
something they do to live. For most of us I expect that it is more
elective. And being elective it is easy to decide that it is not
necessary, if it entails to many discomforts in comparison to the
benefits. Obviously we who are here on this board don't see it that
way.

We also live in a culture that promotes competetive spectator team
sports. Paddling does not generally fit that category, so we are
primarily counter-culture, at least the majority of USA. It may be
different in Canada, but then it wasn't that long ago that it was
considered major transportation in Canada, and maybe then does not have
the same allure for all. Especially when they get in a class, and learn
that it is not all that it is cracked up to be, and that their is some
hard lessons. For some it is communal participation, the spouse who
goes along for the ride.

All kinds of motives, and impossible to figure out for them, and
probably difficult for them to figure for themselves until they get
their feet wet! TnT