Considering the large percentage of SUV owners on the road, I consider
the negative reply posts to be just piqued SUV owners. Feeling self
conscious?
JR

JR North wrote:

/rant
The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,
and sometimes not even seeing it because it is below the drivers
straight ahead line of vision. I was waiting to turn left into a 7-11
with my brake and T/S lights on in my '70 Datsun Roadster. I glanced in
my RVM to see a Ford Expedition barreling right at me at 45mph. I
stomped the gas and got out of her way just in the nick of time. I could
see her face as I glanced- see was staring straight ahead- didn't even
see me sitting there. If I hadn't moved, I would have been killed-
literally run-over by that monster.
Suvs rear-end cars for the above illustrated conditions. I have 3
neighbors with SUVs, all 3 currently have front end damage.
As I said, look at the number of cars with rear end collision damage
well above bumper height.
I have had SUV's repeatedly change lanes into me(without colliding),
because they can't see smaller cars next to them.
Am I discourteous to SUVs? You bet. I can't trust one behind me, and
can't see around one in front of me. If one is next to me, I'm just
waiting for it to swerve into my lane. If one is approaching on a side
street, I expect it to run the stop sign. This is no way to drive with
peace-of-mind.
The main problem is the nitwits that drive them have no experience
driving a large, high vehicle.
I'm just counting the days till I get killed by one.....
\rant
JR

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:

Three times in the past week or so, I've noticed something I don't
recall seeing befo someone with a high-riding pickup or SUV who had
two to six inches of drop hitch -- installed upside down.

Two of them had a trailer on, and in the worst case, a flatbed behind a
Ford Excursion, the upside-down apparatus combined with the tall
vehicle to leave it sitting at maybe a twenty-degree angle. I'm
surprised he didn't leave his trailer taillights on the speed bumps --
or his cargo on the road going up a steep hill.

Just for completeness, I went to a local store and looked at the
catalogue from one of the big makers of trailering tools and toys.
Sure enough, it contained not only instructions but photographs showing
what things are supposed to look like when properly rigged. Somehow
people are spending money on an accessory that they probably need --
and using it exactly wrong.
Fishtailing soon down an Interstate near you...

--Joe





--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

I figure you are a twit, that probably can not drive a sport car or a truck.
I used to race sportscars (I am in the original Herbie), as well as own a
trucking company. Over the years I have seen more idiots in small cars than
in big SUV's or trucks. At least the people in recreational trucks normally
know that you get run over by a semi, that you are going to lose. I have
had randy racer in his CRX pull infront of my Expedition, clearing it by
inches to make an offramp. I have seen sportie cars pull on to the freeway
after stopping on the onramp at 40 mph. I have also seen the soccer mom in
the SUV talking on the cell phone take her 1/2 out of the middle of the
road. As well as guys in sedans, driving 45 in the middle lane of the
freeway and wandering from side to side, while talking on his cell phone (is
he talking to the soccer mom?). There are bad drivers in all size vehicles.
I just happen to see more stupid stunts by small cars cutting off a boat
towing SUV or truck as they see the room between the truck and the next car.
And no space on the california freeway goes unfilled for more than 10
seconds.
"JR North" wrote in message
...
Considering the large percentage of SUV owners on the road, I consider
the negative reply posts to be just piqued SUV owners. Feeling self
conscious?
JR

JR North wrote:

/rant
The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,
and sometimes not even seeing it because it is below the drivers
straight ahead line of vision. I was waiting to turn left into a 7-11
with my brake and T/S lights on in my '70 Datsun Roadster. I glanced in
my RVM to see a Ford Expedition barreling right at me at 45mph. I
stomped the gas and got out of her way just in the nick of time. I could
see her face as I glanced- see was staring straight ahead- didn't even
see me sitting there. If I hadn't moved, I would have been killed-
literally run-over by that monster.
Suvs rear-end cars for the above illustrated conditions. I have 3
neighbors with SUVs, all 3 currently have front end damage.
As I said, look at the number of cars with rear end collision damage
well above bumper height.
I have had SUV's repeatedly change lanes into me(without colliding),
because they can't see smaller cars next to them.
Am I discourteous to SUVs? You bet. I can't trust one behind me, and
can't see around one in front of me. If one is next to me, I'm just
waiting for it to swerve into my lane. If one is approaching on a side
street, I expect it to run the stop sign. This is no way to drive with
peace-of-mind.
The main problem is the nitwits that drive them have no experience
driving a large, high vehicle.
I'm just counting the days till I get killed by one.....
\rant
JR

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:

Three times in the past week or so, I've noticed something I don't
recall seeing befo someone with a high-riding pickup or SUV who had
two to six inches of drop hitch -- installed upside down.

Two of them had a trailer on, and in the worst case, a flatbed behind a
Ford Excursion, the upside-down apparatus combined with the tall
vehicle to leave it sitting at maybe a twenty-degree angle. I'm
surprised he didn't leave his trailer taillights on the speed bumps --
or his cargo on the road going up a steep hill.

Just for completeness, I went to a local store and looked at the
catalogue from one of the big makers of trailering tools and toys.
Sure enough, it contained not only instructions but photographs showing
what things are supposed to look like when properly rigged. Somehow
people are spending money on an accessory that they probably need --
and using it exactly wrong.
Fishtailing soon down an Interstate near you...

--Joe





--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:30:31 -0800, JR North wrote:

Considering the large percentage of SUV owners on the road, I consider
the negative reply posts to be just piqued SUV owners. Feeling self
conscious?
JR

No_ Not in the slightest. We all know the vehicle isn't really the issue.

My wife is the worst driver I have ever known and she typically has 3 or 4 close
calls every time she gets on the road. She hates, trucks, sports-cars, suv's,
little-cars, luxury cars, blue cars, green cars, and you name it cars. Every gd
car on the road is a problem because of incompetent fools behind the wheel of
those stupid 'fill-in-the-blank' vehicles that no body needs.

Bottom line? She sucks as a driver.

Feeling self conscious yet? You should be.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:40:34 -0800, JR North wrote:

/rant
The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,
and sometimes not even seeing it because it is below the drivers
straight ahead line of vision. I was waiting to turn left into a 7-11
with my brake and T/S lights on in my '70 Datsun Roadster. I glanced in
my RVM to see a Ford Expedition barreling right at me at 45mph. I
stomped the gas and got out of her way just in the nick of time. I could
see her face as I glanced- see was staring straight ahead- didn't even
see me sitting there. If I hadn't moved, I would have been killed-
literally run-over by that monster.
Suvs rear-end cars for the above illustrated conditions. I have 3
neighbors with SUVs, all 3 currently have front end damage.
As I said, look at the number of cars with rear end collision damage
well above bumper height.
I have had SUV's repeatedly change lanes into me(without colliding),
because they can't see smaller cars next to them.
Am I discourteous to SUVs? You bet. I can't trust one behind me, and
can't see around one in front of me. If one is next to me, I'm just
waiting for it to swerve into my lane. If one is approaching on a side
street, I expect it to run the stop sign. This is no way to drive with
peace-of-mind.
The main problem is the nitwits that drive them have no experience
driving a large, high vehicle.
I'm just counting the days till I get killed by one.....
\rant
JR

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:
Three times in the past week or so, I've noticed something I don't
recall seeing befo someone with a high-riding pickup or SUV who had
two to six inches of drop hitch -- installed upside down.

Two of them had a trailer on, and in the worst case, a flatbed behind a
Ford Excursion, the upside-down apparatus combined with the tall
vehicle to leave it sitting at maybe a twenty-degree angle. I'm
surprised he didn't leave his trailer taillights on the speed bumps --
or his cargo on the road going up a steep hill.

Just for completeness, I went to a local store and looked at the
catalogue from one of the big makers of trailering tools and toys.
Sure enough, it contained not only instructions but photographs showing
what things are supposed to look like when properly rigged. Somehow
people are spending money on an accessory that they probably need --
and using it exactly wrong.
Fishtailing soon down an Interstate near you...

--Joe


Damn_ pity all those folks missed ya.
We'll keep tryin'_ sooner or later one of us will git your ass.

JR North wrote:
/rant
The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,

SNIP

My current and last SUV were both rear ended by people who must have thought
they were invisible. We have never had an at-fault accident in either or my
previous two Jeep Grand Cherokees. Both my 2000 MDX and my 2004 X5 (6 days
old!) were hit by full-size Ford vans. In both cases, my vehicle was stopped.
The damage to the X5 including all of its safety gadgets was a bit over $7000.

Based on your theory, I guess people in E150 vans can't look FORWARD.

Dan

From: JR North

The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,
and sometimes not even seeing it because it is below the drivers
straight ahead line of vision. I was waiting to turn left into a 7-11
with my brake and T/S lights on in my '70 Datsun Roadster. I glanced in
my RVM to see a Ford Expedition barreling right at me at 45mph. I
stomped the gas and got out of her way just in the nick of time. I could
see her face as I glanced- see was staring straight ahead- didn't even
see me sitting there. If I hadn't moved, I would have been killed-
literally run-over by that monster.
Suvs rear-end cars for the above illustrated conditions. I have 3
neighbors with SUVs, all 3 currently have front end damage.
As I said, look at the number of cars with rear end collision damage
well above bumper height.
I have had SUV's repeatedly change lanes into me(without colliding),
because they can't see smaller cars next to them.
Am I discourteous to SUVs? You bet. I can't trust one behind me, and
can't see around one in front of me. If one is next to me, I'm just
waiting for it to swerve into my lane. If one is approaching on a side
street, I expect it to run the stop sign. This is no way to drive with
peace-of-mind.
The main problem is the nitwits that drive them have no experience
driving a large, high vehicle.
I'm just counting the days till I get killed by one.....
\rant
JR

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:
Three times in the past week or so, I've noticed something I don't
recall seeing befo someone with a high-riding pickup or SUV who had
two to six inches of drop hitch -- installed upside down.

Two of them had a trailer on, and in the worst case, a flatbed behind a
Ford Excursion, the upside-down apparatus combined with the tall
vehicle to leave it sitting at maybe a twenty-degree angle. I'm
surprised he didn't leave his trailer taillights on the speed bumps --
or his cargo on the road going up a steep hill.

Just for completeness, I went to a local store and looked at the
catalogue from one of the big makers of trailering tools and toys.
Sure enough, it contained not only instructions but photographs showing
what things are supposed to look like when properly rigged. Somehow
people are spending money on an accessory that they probably need --
and using it exactly wrong.
Fishtailing soon down an Interstate near you...

--Joe



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."







Hardly worth a response, the owner of a 2003 Ford Expedition. My next vehicle
will be an F-350 diesel Crew Cab, even larger and higher.

77 days to go..

Yup, them Ford diesels look awfully good and pack a punch (am a Chevy diesel
driver myself) -- good luck and enjoy the beast!

I was reading the reposts and drawing from personal experiences on the road,
have come to the conclusion that "inexperienced SUV drivers" who are
responsible for many of the accidents/incidents alluded to, are simply "bad
drivers" to begin with, i.e., whether they drive a sedan, wagon or SUV.
There are still a majority of "bad drivers" out there zipping around in
sedans/wagons who shouldn't be on the road at all.

Another previous post mentioned small sedans (Neons, etc.) cutting off SUVs
to line up for an exit a few hundred feet away with no one behind you for a
few hundred feet -- this happens to me about once a week, rain or shine. I
had one trying to sneak in from my right rear in a two-to-one lane merge
while she was on her cell phone and she ended up leaving some paint on my
chrome bumper -- she refused to stop and kept talking on the cell phone.

Thus, there is much truth in the posts but the issue is not due to
inexperience, just bad driving. The transition from sedan/wagon driving to
SUV driving shouldn't be an issue for a good/average driver.

I choose to drive around in a 6,500 lb turbo-diesel SUV because it suits our
needs. An advantage is that all that mass and its height should help in a
collision with one of them NitWits in another SUV. Unfortunately for
smaller sedan/wagon drivers, physics will not be on their side.

Franko


"RGrew176" wrote in message
...
From: JR North

The main beef I have with SUVs is the people who drive them have little
or no experience with the shifted drivers perspective due to the
elevated eye level. I have come within a short hair's width of being
broadsided TWICE by Lincoln Navigators, who's drivers ran a stop sign on
an intersecting side street. This is because they are used to looking UP
at a stop sign in a car. The elevated eye level in an SUV puts the sign
about level with the driver. So, it doesn't register. People who are
used to driving trucks do not make this error. The higher driver
position causes an error in judging the distance of the car in front,
and sometimes not even seeing it because it is below the drivers
straight ahead line of vision. I was waiting to turn left into a 7-11
with my brake and T/S lights on in my '70 Datsun Roadster. I glanced in
my RVM to see a Ford Expedition barreling right at me at 45mph. I
stomped the gas and got out of her way just in the nick of time. I could
see her face as I glanced- see was staring straight ahead- didn't even
see me sitting there. If I hadn't moved, I would have been killed-
literally run-over by that monster.
Suvs rear-end cars for the above illustrated conditions. I have 3
neighbors with SUVs, all 3 currently have front end damage.
As I said, look at the number of cars with rear end collision damage
well above bumper height.
I have had SUV's repeatedly change lanes into me(without colliding),
because they can't see smaller cars next to them.
Am I discourteous to SUVs? You bet. I can't trust one behind me, and
can't see around one in front of me. If one is next to me, I'm just
waiting for it to swerve into my lane. If one is approaching on a side
street, I expect it to run the stop sign. This is no way to drive with
peace-of-mind.
The main problem is the nitwits that drive them have no experience
driving a large, high vehicle.
I'm just counting the days till I get killed by one.....
\rant
JR

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:
Three times in the past week or so, I've noticed something I don't
recall seeing befo someone with a high-riding pickup or SUV who had
two to six inches of drop hitch -- installed upside down.

Two of them had a trailer on, and in the worst case, a flatbed behind a
Ford Excursion, the upside-down apparatus combined with the tall
vehicle to leave it sitting at maybe a twenty-degree angle. I'm
surprised he didn't leave his trailer taillights on the speed bumps --
or his cargo on the road going up a steep hill.

Just for completeness, I went to a local store and looked at the
catalogue from one of the big makers of trailering tools and toys.
Sure enough, it contained not only instructions but photographs showing
what things are supposed to look like when properly rigged. Somehow
people are spending money on an accessory that they probably need --
and using it exactly wrong.
Fishtailing soon down an Interstate near you...

--Joe



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."







Hardly worth a response, the owner of a 2003 Ford Expedition. My next
vehicle
will be an F-350 diesel Crew Cab, even larger and higher.

77 days to go..