On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:27:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.


Readily admitted. Back then we weren't losing the jobs to outsourcing
that we are now. So many people whine about the outsourcing problems
and jobs lost by the Bush administration, and then they go buy a
Toyota. I can't understand the logic.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:27:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:19:10 GMT, "Jack Goff" wrote:


"Marshall Banana" wrote in message
...
Also Sprach JohnH :

Why not? All I've read has been praiseworthy, and I've got to admit
it's a blast to drive. Comfortable too.

Mostly because I've "driven a Ford lately" and can't quite agree that
"Quality is Job 1."

Dan

My last two Fords, a '94 and a '98 Explorer, each gave me less trouble
than
the '89 Honda that preceded them.

We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."

John, you've got to admit that the American manufacturers asked for their
problems back in the 1970s, by selling almost nothing but crap. They're
still paying the price.


Readily admitted. Back then we weren't losing the jobs to outsourcing
that we are now. So many people whine about the outsourcing problems
and jobs lost by the Bush administration, and then they go buy a
Toyota. I can't understand the logic.

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by the
American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years. Toyota
offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a "niche
car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans jobs
by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in the shop 5
times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act: Find a way to
get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the Ford was about to
cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a Toyota. My logic: If
American engineers can't build a car correctly, they deserve to lose their
jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to the
manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on end.
For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The manufacturers
should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the manufacturers a
ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some sort of religious
status. I makes no sense at all.

Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at the
Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building the
engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford changed its
way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say is completely
true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on numbers, we've since
learnt different. Today quality is the first priority. Anyone can stop the
line if something is wrong. No we're not perfect but we sure as hell are
trying. The union has a quality rep that you can call if you feel quality is
being ignored. A lot of the members of upper management in the plant come
and go as they move up the ladder. But we as members of an engine building
team will either prosper or fail with this plant are here for the long term.
The product that we deliver to you determines our future. I assure you that
the majority of us are very concerned with quality. Doug, I appo;igize about
the past and hope you check us out in the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a
"niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in the
shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act: Find
a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the Ford was
about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a Toyota. My
logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly, they deserve to
lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some sort
of religious status. I makes no sense at all.

I almost did buy one two years ago - a Crown Victoria, since I wanted a rear
wheel drive car for towing. I would've preferred that car to my pickup truck
because the gas mileage was about 25% better. But then, I read about the
feature that wasn't in the brochu The thing about the exploding gas tank
and rear-end collisions. I realize other cars may have this problem, but
that fact had no bearing on my decision. I may look again in the future, but
only after finding out if the issue has been dealt with. Police departments
are happy to dispense this information.



"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote in message
...
Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at
the Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building the
engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford changed its
way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say is completely
true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on numbers, we've
since learnt different. Today quality is the first priority. Anyone can
stop the line if something is wrong. No we're not perfect but we sure as
hell are trying. The union has a quality rep that you can call if you feel
quality is being ignored. A lot of the members of upper management in the
plant come and go as they move up the ladder. But we as members of an
engine building team will either prosper or fail with this plant are here
for the long term. The product that we deliver to you determines our
future. I assure you that the majority of us are very concerned with
quality. Doug, I appo;igize about the past and hope you check us out in
the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require a
"niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in
the shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act:
Find a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the
Ford was about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a
Toyota. My logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly, they
deserve to lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some
sort of religious status. I makes no sense at all.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I almost did buy one two years ago - a Crown Victoria, since I wanted a
rear
wheel drive car for towing. I would've preferred that car to my pickup
truck
because the gas mileage was about 25% better. But then, I read about the
feature that wasn't in the brochu The thing about the exploding gas
tank
and rear-end collisions. I realize other cars may have this problem, but
that fact had no bearing on my decision. I may look again in the future,
but
only after finding out if the issue has been dealt with. Police
departments
are happy to dispense this information.


A few did catch fire... in extreme situations, after being rear-ended while
sitting still on the side of the highway by a vehicle doing 80mph. The vast
majority of police, fire, public safety, etc. still buy Crown Vics because
there's nothing else out there that has the safety record, reliability,
capacity, and capability if the Crown Vic. Certainly nothing Toyota offers.

The SC Highway Patrol has a few BMW cruisers that BMW gave them. Painted
and marked, but with no light bar. They can sneak up on you, or you on
them, very easily. It's just not right. :-)

Doug,
The funny thing is that the some of the Police Department suing Ford over
the rear end collisions (some at 90 mph) now want to buy more Ford vehicles.
When Ford refused to sell them more police cars they sued, Ford won that
lawsuit. Go figure.
Paul


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I almost did buy one two years ago - a Crown Victoria, since I wanted a
rear wheel drive car for towing. I would've preferred that car to my pickup
truck because the gas mileage was about 25% better. But then, I read about
the feature that wasn't in the brochu The thing about the exploding gas
tank and rear-end collisions. I realize other cars may have this problem,
but that fact had no bearing on my decision. I may look again in the
future, but only after finding out if the issue has been dealt with. Police
departments are happy to dispense this information.



"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote in message
...
Doug,
I can understand how you feel. I work as an electrician, for Ford at
the Romeo Engine Plant. I hired in the in 1989. Since we were building
the engine plant we went to a lot of classes. We learned that Ford
changed its way of doing business because of the Japanese. What you say
is completely true and very embarrassing. They're whole focus was on
numbers, we've since learnt different. Today quality is the first
priority. Anyone can stop the line if something is wrong. No we're not
perfect but we sure as hell are trying. The union has a quality rep that
you can call if you feel quality is being ignored. A lot of the members
of upper management in the plant come and go as they move up the ladder.
But we as members of an engine building team will either prosper or fail
with this plant are here for the long term. The product that we deliver
to you determines our future. I assure you that the majority of us are
very concerned with quality. Doug, I appo;igize about the past and hope
you check us out in the future.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

snipped

How can you not understand? Millions of people got ****ed up the ass by
the American car makers. Those memories don't fade for many, many years.
Toyota offers cars that are damned close to perfect. Unless you require
a "niche car" like the one you bought, why gamble with an American car?

My brother in law used to bitch at me about how I was costing Americans
jobs by buying Japanese. My response was simple: My second Ford was in
the shop 5 times in the first year (1975). My boss read me the riot act:
Find a way to get to work, or work somewhere else. In other words, the
Ford was about to cost me MY job. When it finally died, I bought a
Toyota. My logic: If American engineers can't build a car correctly,
they deserve to lose their jobs.

It's an interesting phenomenon in America: Pick 10 products, one of them
being a cars. For each product, ask 10,000 people what should happen to
the manufacturers of those products if they're poorly built for years on
end. For 9 of the products, people will say what they should: The
manufacturers should go out of business. For cars, they'll cut the
manufacturers a ridiculous amount of slack. It's as if cars have some
sort of religious status. I makes no sense at all.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
We've gotta stop sending the jobs overseas -- I say, "Buy American."
John

How about a small compromise. "Buy North American" We make cars in
Canada too! In fact, Ontario makes more cars & trucks than does the state
of Michigan. General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota & Cami.(
GM/Suzuki) are made here in Ontario.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...


How about a small compromise. "Buy North American" We make cars in
Canada too! In fact, Ontario makes more cars & trucks than does the state
of Michigan. General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota & Cami.(
GM/Suzuki) are made here in Ontario.


D'oh! That's a family secret. We don't want to antagonize our neighbours
to the south.