On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:33:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:57:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Circular reasoning. We've offered to make absolutely NO behavior
changes.
Until then, "C" will not happen.

"We" shouldn't have to. "We" aren't the ones who flew 3 airplanes into
their buildings. "We" aren't the ones who blew a hole in the side of a
naval ship. "We" aren't the ones who cut of the heads of prisoners on
TV.

One of their biggest problems with us is with our life of materialism
and consumerism, among other things. Are you suggesting we all wrap
ourselves in Burqa's and raise goats so that we don't "offend" them?

Nobody said that.

But you suggest that we somehow should not be entitled to continue our
lifestyle and those things which "offend" the Islamo-wack-jobs, or by
protecting our interests, in order to change our "behavior" . We are
not the aggressors. We didn't start it. But we have every right to
defend it.

I did not suggest that we change our lifestyle HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.

But that is exactly what they complain about. They view us as "the
devil" and that they have the god-given duty to "cleanse" the earth of
us.

That has absolutely no relationship to our behavior elsewhere.

And our behavior elsewhere is only the tip of their agenda.

If you could
actually sit down and negotiate with these people, and they insisted that we
remove every billboard in the US which showed scantily clad women, the issue
would be brushed off as a ridiculous demand.

Which is why we're at war now, and terrorists took down two of our
tallest buildings. Their demands are largely ridiculous. Besides, you
don't negotiate with terrorists. That only validates their methods,
and emboldens them to demand more.


Most negotiations begin with
ridiculous demands.

And in their case, would end with them. You can't compromise with
fanatics. I don't think you truly understand the nature of the threat
we're facing.


What we're talking about here is our behavior in other peoples' countries.
Get it?

You are only looking at one aspect. They were not so "offended" with
our behavior when we taught them how to extract oil from their land
and transform from a poor backwards culture into power brokers.

Ironically, at least from the Wahabbist viewpoint in Saudi Arabia, is
that "westernization" of their culture to some degree is what they
want to expunge. They blame us for bringing them into the modern
world.


They don't see it that way. In their eyes, this goes back 30-40 years.
You,
in your myopia, believe history began on 9/11.

Not at all. But unlike you, I don't have a "Blame America first"
mentality.

Dave


Your "mentality" is such that you think we're 100% entitled to our little
holy war.

I don't believe in absolutes. But I'd say we're probably 85% entitled
to our "holy war", considering that WE were the ones attacked.

Funny, Bin Laden wasn't too upset with us when we helped him fight the
Soviets.

Here's a challenge: Can you name 3 things you think we could do
better, in terms of our middle east policies, considering the failures of
the past 40 years? Among your responses, you may NOT suggest using more
military force.

Gee, I don't know, since depending on your perspective, those answers
will change. I'm sure the viewpoint of our behavior when taken from
the perspective of an Israeli will differ considerably from that of an
Islamic Mullah or cleric.

Dave