"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:34:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:45:26 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
m...

Dead is dead. Doesn't matter whether your head's cut off, or a .223
round
slices open an artery in your leg and you watch yourself bleed to
death.
Our
methods are no more civilized than theirs.

We don't televise our combat killing. In fact we don't kidnap innocent
non-combatents and execute them as terrorist propaganda.

No. We stick them in a Cuban prison for 3 years and refuse to let them
communicate with the outside world.

Much less brutal.

Dave


It's kidnapping.

Not if the person is an enemy of the state.

Dave


If they cannot communicate outside the prison, how do YOU know they're
enemies of the state?

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

"Anyone" would not be qualified to authenticate the "official"
journals. Only those who were in a position to know them.

You
can request copies from the library of congress. Were you assuming that
historians claimed they'd quoted directly from White House diaries, and
lied
about it in dozens of books?

No, I question whether the texts that they were quoting from were
actually the real deal. That's why I brought the notion of
authentication into the picture.

To me, "notion" is a word meaning a weak idea, which is accurate in this
case. Thank you for admitting to....well...you know. You may be making some
progress here.



Another simple, direct question: Are you saying you are not aware of the
FACT that Nixon ordered the bombing of Cambodia, while saying it was not
happening?

Are you aware of it - yes or no?

I was not aware that Nixon lied about it.

Dave

Well, now you are. Fortunately, it was discovered and verified, which
caused
quite a scene.

Not a big enough scene evidently, as it took Watergate to bring him
down.

Unfortunately, a certain percentage of the voting population never changes,
and is happy to believe whatever drivel their leader feeds them.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


They said the same thing about Germany and Japan after WWII. They were
wrong then and you're wrong now.

Dave

Here you go, Dave:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/marshall/

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:49:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Yes, but I learned it as a scientific principle as part of physics.
Nuclear fission could be explained as a domino effect in a very short
time frame.

"Domino effect" is a generic term for any sequential series of events. If
you lost your job, you could say there was a domino effect which resulted
in
your credit rating being hosed for a period of time. "Domino theory"
applied
specifically to a geo-political idea.

Now you are arguing semantics.

No. I'm helping you realize that in trying to appear informed on the subject
my mentioning its common everyday meaning, you are instead making yourself
look silly. Drop it already.



Considering the imperialistic nature of many communist states, we were
justified in much of our concern. Many countries were pulled behind
the iron curtain against their wills, and we tried to prevent it as
much as possible.


We did exactly the same thing, as I'm sure you recall. Think Africa, and
Central & South America. Think Iran-Contra.

When have we EVER taken over another country (Other than Puerto Rico)
and subjugated the people to OUR rule? Where is that extra tax money?

Dave

Other than Eastern Europe and later, Afghanistan, the USSR did not
explicitly march into countries and take over.

There were a LOT of small countries in Europe that were sucked under
the iron curtain, and NOT by choice.


They exerted extreme
influence in some places, as did we.

The type of influence was a lot different.

Not it wasn't.



Sometimes, we did it by using
legitimate private companies as surrogates, which almost completely
financed
the local government, thereby controlling it.

That's called capitalism. They had the choice to reject these "private
companies", but they would rather lose some local control, in exchange
for a much higher standard of living for the people.

It's a trick perfected over
several hundred years by England, France, Portugal, Holland, Belgium (as
in
"Congo"), Spain and Italy.

Trick? That's the way business is done. If your enemy is capitalism,
then you start to look like a communist, and your sympathy for N.
Vietnam, China, and the USSR makes more sense.

A branch of Xerox in Germany or Hong Kong: That's healthy capitalism. But,
when a company sets up shop in a small country, uses slave labor or
maintains hideous working conditions, and pays off local officials to look
the other way, that's a bit different. Here are some examples:
http://www.seen.org/pages/human_rights.shtml

Since you will say the source is suspect, I'll describe another for you.
When I worked for PaineWebber in the late 1980s, Occidental Petroleum put an
issue up for a vote at one of its stockholder's meetings. In was in the
prospectus. I read it. We discussed it over lunch many times. The issue:
Whether to continue using slave labor in one of the South Asia countries.
Might've been Indonesia. The stockholders barely passed a resolution to stop
the practice. The board of directors was split on the subject.

If you think local officials were not bought & paid for, you are fill in
the blank.



Incidentally, if you really believe what you say about the need to fight
Islamic fundamentalists, then you cannot comment negatively on Russia's
foray into Afghanistan, particularly in light of what they've been dealing
with lately.

Ah! The ultimate dilemma. Do we side with the enemy we know, and have
been fighting with for years, or do we side with the enemy we don't
yet know we have? Maybe we made the wrong choice in hindsight. But we
didn't know what would happen back then. That's why hindsight is
always 20/20.

Dave


Perhaps, but some people feel we can learn from the past and have 20/50
vision in the future, rather than assume the past offers nothing to learn
from.

As far as humanitarian horrors, last week's news reported that in New
Jersey, kids charged with minor offenses are often placed in maximum
security juvenile prisons while being "processed". Many end up so
traumatized that they're unable to function normally in society. Onto the
bombing list with New Jersey.


That's called "scared straight". It works.

Dave

It's called anal rape and sodomy.

"Scared straight" is when you take convicts into schoolhouses, etc, and have
them describe the horrors of prison life to the kids. It has nothing to do with
throwing *accused* juvenile offenders in with convicted, sex-starved, deviant
felons.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
As far as humanitarian horrors, last week's news reported that in New
Jersey, kids charged with minor offenses are often placed in maximum
security juvenile prisons while being "processed". Many end up so
traumatized that they're unable to function normally in society. Onto
the
bombing list with New Jersey.


That's called "scared straight". It works.

Dave

It's called anal rape and sodomy.

"Scared straight" is when you take convicts into schoolhouses, etc, and
have
them describe the horrors of prison life to the kids. It has nothing to do
with
throwing *accused* juvenile offenders in with convicted, sex-starved,
deviant
felons.

I'm afraid rape and sodomy may be the way Dave maintains control at home.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm afraid rape and sodomy may be the way Dave maintains control at
home.

You think he's the willing victim?

That's not very nice comments guys! Give the poor fellow a break. He may
not be an intellectual star but I think he is an OK person.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
I'm afraid rape and sodomy may be the way Dave maintains control at
home.

You think he's the willing victim?

That's not very nice comments guys! Give the poor fellow a break. He may
not be an intellectual star but I think he is an OK person.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield



I think he's an OK person too, Jim. But, I also know he's at least partially
influenced by a tradition that promotes rules to live by such as "Spare the
rod and spoil the child".

Doug Kanter wrote:
Let's not forget that Germany, England, Spain and Florida have "harbored"
terrorists. That qualifies these places for bombing.

OK... after the radiation dies down, we can allow our new best friends
the Communist Chinese to colonize and establish some nice state
factories to build cheap goods for Wal-Mart. Sounds like a good business
plan!


As far as humanitarian horrors, last week's news reported that in New
Jersey, kids charged with minor offenses are often placed in maximum
security juvenile prisons while being "processed". Many end up so
traumatized that they're unable to function normally in society. Onto the
bombing list with New Jersey.


No no no, you don't understand. Those kids aren't enemy combatants so
they have no rights or protections. Probably their parents voted
Democrat. It is only right that they be tortured. Maybe the next
God-fearing president will order them turned into lamp shades!

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
Let's not forget that Germany, England, Spain and Florida have "harbored"
terrorists. That qualifies these places for bombing.

OK... after the radiation dies down, we can allow our new best friends the
Communist Chinese to colonize and establish some nice state factories to
build cheap goods for Wal-Mart. Sounds like a good business plan!


As far as humanitarian horrors, last week's news reported that in New
Jersey, kids charged with minor offenses are often placed in maximum
security juvenile prisons while being "processed". Many end up so
traumatized that they're unable to function normally in society. Onto the
bombing list with New Jersey.

No no no, you don't understand. Those kids aren't enemy combatants so they
have no rights or protections. Probably their parents voted Democrat. It
is only right that they be tortured. Maybe the next God-fearing president
will order them turned into lamp shades!

DSK


Hmmm. Spare the rod.....including the ones in the prisoners' pants?
Nah...it's good for those kids.