Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"

Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........


The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the
numbers.

And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the
owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall.

And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture
conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data?

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........



The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the
numbers.

How would the owner know?? save you properly test how would any owner
know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The
owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make
it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the
first place, so .............


And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the
owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall.

Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a
bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a
"capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but
nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome.

So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20%
more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry)
"have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark
than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which
is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his
teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-)



And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture
conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data?

I don't have to prove anything I'm not the one making totally over the
top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have
suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions
output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt."

Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer
like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that
are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with
anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if
nothing else:-)

So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP
= 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on
6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 -
120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right
to you????

http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm

320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt.
similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins
people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is
only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient
HP for HP wow!!!!!!!

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7

355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others &
remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as
good as it gets in our pleasure boat world.

http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm

275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr)

Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not
just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of
chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like
capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause;
your magazine articles & dreams.


K



Capt. Bill

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........



The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with
the
numbers.

How would the owner know??

Your kidding, right?


save you properly test how would any owner
know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise".
The
owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make
it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the
first place, so .............





And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and
the
owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall.

Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a
bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a
"capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but
nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome.

So, show us some that proves you right.



So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20%
more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry)
"have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark
than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which
is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his
teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-)



And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture
conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data?

I don't have to prove anything

And your doing a fine jod of it.


I'm not the one making totally over the
top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have
suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions
output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt."

Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer
like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that
are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with
anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if
nothing else:-)

So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP
= 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on
6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 -
120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right
to you????

It's not MY claim you dolt!

It's interesting that you feel the need to take this discussion to a personal
level.


http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm

320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt.
similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins
people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is
only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient
HP for HP wow!!!!!!!

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7

355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others &
remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as
good as it gets in our pleasure boat world.

http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm

275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr)

Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not
just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of
chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like
capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause;
your magazine articles & dreams.

Interesting that all manufactures are liars till what they claim seems to back
you up.

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........



The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with

the

numbers.

How would the owner know??


Your kidding, right?



save you properly test how would any owner
know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise".

The

owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make
it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the
first place, so .............




And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and

the

owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall.

Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a
bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a
"capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but
nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome.


So, show us some that proves you right.



So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20%
more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry)
"have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark
than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which
is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his
teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-)



And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture
conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data?

I don't have to prove anything


And your doing a fine jod of it.



I'm not the one making totally over the
top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have
suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions
output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt."

Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer
like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that
are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with
anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if
nothing else:-)

So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP
= 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on
6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 -
120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right
to you????


It's not MY claim you dolt!

It's interesting that you feel the need to take this discussion to a personal
level.


http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...curves_4.2.htm

320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt.
similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins
people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is
only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient
HP for HP wow!!!!!!!

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7

355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others &
remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as
good as it gets in our pleasure boat world.

http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engi...erformance.cfm

275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr)

Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not
just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of
chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like
capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause;
your magazine articles & dreams.


Interesting that all manufactures are liars till what they claim seems to back
you up.

Capt. Bill

So you admit they do back me up then???? which of course they do.

I said the magazines were so inexperienced they thought they could
publish clearly wrong figures & I pointed out that Yanmar themselves
specifically DON'T publish any claims related to that motor, indeed the
sellers & magazines depend upon the public not getting any proper
information.

The Cummins, Cat & Perkins references just give the numbers which
confirm it takes about 18-20 usgals/hr to make 315HP so the claims no
matter who actually made them are false & grossly so.

Again lest there be any chance you still don't get it, a 28ft cabin
boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgal/hr is just marketing BS & anyone who wears
it is confirmed as not having much boating experience, the magazines,
you & the NG non boating idiots brigade wore it.




K

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"

I don't have to prove anything



http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm


"32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion"

"1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's
Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning
40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt"



"34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion"

"1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's
Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm,
top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr."


http://www.goboatingamerica.com/broc...show.asp?id=20

"Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots
burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and
spacious."

The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the
True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel.

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


I don't have to prove anything




http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm

You really are gullible aren't you William??? these people are sellers!!!

"32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion"

"1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's
Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning
40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt"

Gee a testimonial that's really reliable probably in the same class as
the other magazine something to sell rubbish. For any fuel consumption
figures to be valid they need to tell exactly how the fuel usage was
measured, needless to say the spruikers don't & never do.



"34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion"

"1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's
Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm,
top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr."

This is slightly more realistic but again why quote marketing spruik to
me, all you need do is find just one "Yanmar" reference that will tell
you how much fuel their 315 engine burns at various revs, but I can
assure you the starting point at max is going to be about 19-20 usgal/hr.

Assuming the fixed pitch props are correct, then at 3400rpm those
engines would be making 160-175HP (yes that's right around 1/2 max HP) &
given the known consumption of marine diesels it's easy to predict the
fuel usage @ 9.9 usgal/hr X 2 = 19-20 gal/hr. Honestly can't you see
even from this that the original claim of a 6gal/hr cruise & then an
11gal/hr max is just hopeless BS???





http://www.goboatingamerica.com/broc...show.asp?id=20

"Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots
burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and
spacious."

I have always had to contend with this in this NG you actually think if
enough people repeat a lie it somehow becomes true, from the OMC dealers
not knowing how their own engines idle, to them not knowing then
repeating the same lies they were given by OMC as regards Ficht, to this
endless nonsense about diesels. It's simple HP for HP you'll save about
20% of the fuel petrol vs diesel.

The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the
True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel.

Dealers & other selling spruikers are the a..holes from whence the BS
comes!!! From there it's spread over the magazine pages by advertising
chasing inexperienced magazine writers, then inexperienced non boaters
like you spread it word of mouth, soon people think it's right; so
what??, it's not. Things like this are not resolved by a show of hands.

The proper diesel manufacturers publish the fuel consumption figures &
it's a very competitive business even Yanmar are silent in this because
they know any proper fuel graph would stop the deception.

"Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the
magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the
bell has tolled for thee.


K

Capt. Bill

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"
Date: 12/21/04 3:13 AM Eastern

"Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the
magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the
bell has tolled for thee.

Great. And I hope that means I will no longer be hearing from you.

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"
Date: 12/21/04 3:13 AM Eastern


"Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the
magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the
bell has tolled for thee.


Great. And I hope that means I will no longer be hearing from you.

Capt. Bill


You should kill file me then capt., fore I will always say what I say
when people post nonsense, you can hide if you want I care not. I don't
use a kill file; don't need it.


K