Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "NOYB"




"fishless" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...

I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with
the 315
yanmar?


I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a
burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but
amazing if true. Let us know.




A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a
jack shaft
does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end
burning 10 - 11 gph

Capt. Bill




Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-)

Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale
"approx" gals?? or a standard US gal???

Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly
made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd
get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find
are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers.

The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time,
everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of
order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to
remain uncorrected.



Actually, the inexperienced simpleton is you. Most of the boating
magazines that publish "testing results" know how to hook up and read a
fuel flow meter. And their writers actually have access to boats.

Unlike you.

Dear dear dear again Krause you confirm what a liar you are & certainly
not a boat owner of any boat much less of a 36ft lobster boat with a big
Cummins inside

Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as the
core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this than
most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the point
information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel usage
grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual.

The particular injection pump used on these engines is high bypass, so
if any of these magazine simpletons tell you they "hook up & read a fuel
flow meter" for one of their marketing "tests" on these indeed most
marine diesels (NB not all), just giggle; as we do.

You might one day own a real boat Krause, instead of your endless lies
then by all means come along here & join in the boating discussions this
can be a good informative NG, gee it'll help even you to learn a bit
about boats.

Till then............

If you want confirmation what a load of marketing fluff these magazine
tests are mostly written by simpletons for simpletons, have a read of
some of your mates spam posted he-)


K

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:53:35 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:48:13 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:


Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's
operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami
boat show, and was interested...and did a little checking.

Here's some info you might find interesting:

I don't know, Harry, but isn't this just another flavor of the Rev. Jim
Melnyk?

As in the Rev. Jim Meany being a Nazi?

Later,

Tom

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

K. Smith wrote:

LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "NOYB"


"fishless" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...

I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with
the 315
yanmar?


I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with
a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but
amazing if true. Let us know.



A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a
jack shaft
does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top
end burning 10 - 11 gph

Capt. Bill





The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time,
everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out
of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS
to remain uncorrected.




Actually, the inexperienced simpleton is you. Most of the boating
magazines that publish "testing results" know how to hook up and read
a fuel flow meter. And their writers actually have access to boats.

Unlike you.



Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as

the core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this
than most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the
point information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel
usage grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual.



You don't know feces from shoepolish.
My comment was that the magazines that actually do testing of fuel flow
or consumption actually do these tests and come up with legitimate
figures. and that they don't just make up numbers and publish them. If I
read an evaluation of the boat in question in Boating, and it was
accompanied by "test" results, I would be those results would be for
real. While the magazine doesn't publish a lot of negative info about
the boats it looks over, it doesn't fake statistical data on boat tests.

I didn't say "they" faked it what I did say & maintain is;

The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons,

they're just too inexperienced to challenge what they're told!! Again so
that even you may understand, a fuel flow check will tell you how much
fuel some (NB some) petrol engines are using & the "flow" meters are
reasonably accurate.

However when it comes to diesel engines it's more complicated,
certainly it's possible to set up a flow meter to give you the fuel used
readout, but it's more than any of your magazine simpletons know about,
so they never do it (because they can't:-))

What they do is just parrot the numbers given them by the seller!!!
without any understanding or warning that this number might be just
marketing BS.

Indeed right there any magazine worth anything would be saying gee this
claim is unsubstantiated in any real fashion, unchecked by us & is
inconsistent with the known HP vs diesel consumption requirements of
boats in this class, if the seller wants to promote the number it
probably means most everything else they say is suspect??? Is it that
anything else they know can't or won't readily be checked is also BS???
Is the hull layup & materials as claimed??? the base metal of the
fittings?? the work quality in general???? Hmmm a magazine could get a
real rep with readers, not so good with the advertisers they're really
chasing.

You claim to be in "union publishing" yet you don't even seem to have a
clue about that Krause, the "magazines" get 2/5 or 3/8 of not much back
from magazine "sales" to dreamers like you, after the distribution,
retailer, returns etc in other words their income is from "paid"
advertising, & that's why they are just another arm of marketing.

How hard is it to go back to the engine manufacture or do the numbers
themselves, not only will the most basic of effort uncover the fuel
consumption numbers are a lie but worse, given the known state of how
diesel engines work in this universe the spruiked numbers are impossible.

Remember chucky's "test" on the other 28ftr??? a load of parroted
marketing BS nothing more.


I believe the fuel flow figures quoted by the original poster were from
an ad, not from an independent test.


Your OBs? What a crock of crap. Your claim that you "manufacture" some
sort of diesel outboard is nothing but bullship. No one has ever seen
one, no one has ever seen an ad for one, no one has ever seen a plant
where you "manufacture" them, no one has ever seen a box in which you've
shipped one, and there's no readily available information around that
indicates you have any involvement in a going venture that manufactures
anything. That monstrosity of a rusty kit-based "outboard" that you
depict on the back of your clapped-out, piece of crap boat wouldn't sell
as a boat anchor.

Dear dear dear you're a jealous little liar aren't you?? I have never &
don't make claims, however as far as Toyota based diesel marine engines
go I do claim to have some understanding; but hey if anyone else wants
to claim they use them & have different numbers, well let's hear it I'll
be very very interested.

Diesel engines are much more fuel efficient that petrol engines HP vs
HP but they are also "mostly" (not all) heavier HP vs HP the raw numbers
would say you can save 25-30% on fuel consumption using a diesel, but
the extra weight etc etc means you will more likely see something closer
to 20% because it takes more HP to push a heavier boat & the faster a
boat is traveling the more impact any extra weight has.

A 28ft boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgals/hr is just away with the fairies
stuff & any experienced boat person would immediately call it for what
it is, just as I call you as an uneducated lying union thug.

K

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "NOYB"


"fishless" wrote in message
news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhost .talkaboutboats.com...

I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315
yanmar?


I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn
rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if
true.
Let us know.


A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack
shaft
does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph.
And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph

Capt. Bill


Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-)

Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx"

gals?? or a standard US gal???

Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made

claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well
sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague
"testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers.


I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one
and
they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots
and max gph of 12.



The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time,
everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of
order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to
remain uncorrected.

Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll.


These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news

for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if
run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will
drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the
mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-).

However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult
question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190
HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels.

If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making
much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what
4-5 ton???,

6800 lb dry.

"cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40
mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice.

Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false
information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only
demonstrating their own lack of experience.

Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even
though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just
marketing BS from BS'ers.

Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back
to us.



Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits
you:-)

I celabrate Festivus, thanks.

And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM
sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance?

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"


LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "NOYB"


"fishless" wrote in message
news:c19eeecd30ea8f5cf638edb87c834566@localhos t.talkaboutboats.com...


I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315
yanmar?


I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn
rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if

true.

Let us know.


A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack

shaft

does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph.
And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph

Capt. Bill


Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-)

Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx"


gals?? or a standard US gal???

Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made


claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well
sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague
"testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers.



I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one
and
they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots
and max gph of 12.

Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they
verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they
"know" at cruise & max.

Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller
is .... well selling.

"If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at
"max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely
well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have
been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel
usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was
getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams
per HP per hour.




The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time,
everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of
order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to
remain uncorrected.


Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll.

Gee you have the front or ego or both:-) to put "capt." in your sig yet
you fall for this marketing nonsense?? You better get some real boating
experience or are you just another Krause style magazine dreamer???:-)


These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news


for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if
run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will
drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the
mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-).

However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult
question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190
HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels.

If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making
much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what
4-5 ton???,


6800 lb dry.

Again are you really going to accept this nonsense?? 5600lbs dry which
is still optimistic but with no anything, no engines drives liquids etc
etc etc yet you swallow this??? 4 tonnes is probably about right or you
can just magazine dream on.

Again with trailer boats (this is) how hard is it for them (magazines)
to take it to any public weighbridge & have the numbers actually checked
in the condition it's so called "tested"?? well that wouldn't be good
for sales would it???:-)


"cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40

mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice.

Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false
information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only
demonstrating their own lack of experience.

Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even
though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just
marketing BS from BS'ers.


Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back
to us.

It's certainly possible we do it all the time with diesels, but it's
not a simple thing to do & that's why your dumbo magazines think they
can get away with just parroting what the seller spruiks, as I said post
the link as to how they checked the fuel usage at the various speeds as
they claim????

I can assure you it's bunkum of the first order, but what is more
serious is you are so inexperienced you actually believe it!!:-)


Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits

you:-)

I celabrate Festivus, thanks.

And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM
sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance?

"Capt" I love it!!! capt gullible I bet you sit in the armchair with
your magazines wearing a capt. cap:-)

K

Capt. Bill

WaIIy wrote:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:39:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote:


I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one
and
they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots
and max gph of 12.

Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they
verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they
"know" at cruise & max.

Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller
is .... well selling.

"If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at
"max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely
well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have
been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel
usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was
getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams
per HP per hour.


PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed
their own meters.

The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World
data.


Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the
boat burnt at various speeds etc.

Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........

Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale
testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin
possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know &
be experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating
the sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then
try to pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're
knowingly part of the marketing deception.

Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but
they haven't even checked???

Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they
did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't),
then of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty
bottom, wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the
prop copped a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be
proffered all BS of course but nudge nudge wink wink:-)




K.

Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption
data. Competition keeps them honest.

A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given
load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally.

Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom
condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is
generally published for a standard set of conditions.

Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a
specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings.
Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential
liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about
everyone honest.

In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted
for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what
fuel consumption we would have with the engines.

Perhaps life in Oz is different.

Butch
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
WaIIy wrote:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:39:51 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote:


I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they
tested one
and
they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30
knots
and max gph of 12.

Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they
verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they
"know" at cruise & max.

Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller
is .... well selling.

"If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at
"max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely
well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have
been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel
usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was
getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams
per HP per hour.


PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed
their own meters.

The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World
data.


Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the boat
burnt at various speeds etc.

Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part
of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........

Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale
testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin
possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know & be
experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating the
sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then try to
pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're knowingly
part of the marketing deception.

Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but they
haven't even checked???

Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they
did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't), then
of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty bottom,
wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the prop copped
a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be proffered all BS of
course but nudge nudge wink wink:-)




K.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:10:42 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:


Perhaps life in Oz is different.

Of course it is. They are upside down.

And they talk funny. :)

Later,

Tom - who is waiting for the relatives and kids to arrive for the
annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football
this afternoon.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:28:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:10:42 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:



Perhaps life in Oz is different.


Of course it is. They are upside down.

And they talk funny. :)

Later,

Tom - who is waiting for the relatives and kids to arrive for the
annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football
this afternoon.


I figured out what is missing in your life...

You need a somewhat winterized boat with a nice cabin, a heater, a couch
and a TV set...on which you have to head out to to do endless maintenance...

Yes - yes I do.

Later,

Tom

Subject: albin 28 flush deck
From: "K. Smith"

Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big
part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption .........


The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the
numbers.

And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the
owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall.

And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture
conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data?

Capt. Bill