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Boston Whaler or Grady White?
Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father
while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos: http://www.MyBoatSank.com The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a 1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle, Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat safer. Thanks for letting me know what you think. |
Well of course commiserations on your misfortune & at the same time congrats that all lives are safe. So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant deliverer of NG spam here. Don't be discouraged when they attack you personally & spin this so it's all your fault. The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude. OMC a huge Co, was sent under because unhappy boater-campers; who were lied to by dealers & bought their defective engines quickly found out they weren't alone & didn't have to take being BS'd to by dealers. Also a member of this NG called Madcow had good success against Brunswick a few years ago by not accepting BS & telling the world what was going on, she got her Mercruiser repaired when at first they didn't want to know her. I'm skeptical that the manufacturer will care much about a 1990 boat nor a dealer after your cheque has cleared, so I don't hold out false hope. However you can & should let the world know of your experience, could have cost your Dad his life & yours:-) So good luck & thanks for letting the world know:-) Gee it seems that part of the world produces a certain type of boat seller, when does it become a pattern??? K MyBoatSank.com wrote: Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos: http://www.MyBoatSank.com The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a 1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle, Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat safer. Thanks for letting me know what you think. |
On 7 Dec 2004 00:32:07 -0800, "MyBoatSank.com"
wrote: Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos: http://www.MyBoatSank.com Out of curiosity, did you have the boat surveyed before you bought it? Later, Tom |
So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited
defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant deliverer of NG spam here. This is about the third unprovoked attack this week, What set you off, again, Karen Smith? Do you have any remarks that might help this party, or is merely using his misfortune as an opportunity to lash out at other people a sufficient reason for your post? The very good news is that there was no loss of life. To split a very tiny hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster. The Columbia Bar is one of the most treacherous places to take a small boat on the west coast. Conditions there can get so severe, that the CG runs a "surfman" school at the location. In surfman school, trainees are taught to broach 40-foot patrol boats until they roll. All aboard are strapped in place, and can be under water for several seconds before the self-righting design turns un-turtle. Lots of people get in trouble there with inadequate or unseaworthy vessels or inexperienced seamanship. Sometimes people with adequate skill and proper boats will simply encounter some terrible luck. If the boat in question were manufactured with the defect noted in the complaint, then its a miracle it didn't sink sometime during the first decade. |
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:03:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: You're some piece of work, Smith. =================================== Ahh yes, the annual meeting of the Harry and Karen Mutual Affection Society is now called to order. Is there any new business to discuss? Thought not. Motion to adjourn? |
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: My post was spot-on, Ms. Smith's was her usual anti-dealer, anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't you notice? ================================= The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented. A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting. |
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:55:08 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant deliverer of NG spam here. I don't know jack about this dealer (they are 3000 miles from me), but I own a Grady-White and have had excellent customer service from the factory (150 miles away). Locally, they are a highly regarded boat. Grady-White consistently scores at top of class with J.D. Power in customer satisfaction.... so I don't think your OMC analogy holds. This would be a dealer lackie I warned you about. Well the OMC analogy does hold I didn't say it impacted on GW I did say it was an example of the internet being used to uncover deceptive behaviour, or in this case he feels the dealer has dumped him. Don't be discouraged when they attack you personally & spin this so it's all your fault. Do you think asking if a survey was had qualifies as an attack? No I don't however are you saying that things are so bad you "must" have a survey even when buying from a franchise dealer??? I mean don't get me wrong I agree with you they're lying scum, but it's a surprise to see you admit it. Or asking *specifically* *what* the dealer and manufacturer said? No Gene it's what he didn't say when the somewhat shocked owner returned after the sinking, that's the issue. Personally, my take on what I have seen is: There is damage that appears not related to the sinking. What was the history of this boat? Had it sunk before? Was there existing damage to the transom? Was there a survey so that the boat was in a "known" condition? It appears to me that some of the maintenance items, particularly non factory items, tell quite a tale... such as cheap electrical connectors.... in the case of the battery, so poorly done that they were corroded away and (literally) falling off. If I were posting, I'd certainly be bold about saying what the dealer and manufacturer said.... not a "you wouldn't believe".... All of this leads me to believe that there is a lot about this I *don't* know... Gee if you could see that in so many other threads we'd all be better off. All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is "after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude. As tired as I am of OT politico crap, this statement would be appropriate for a warranty item.... but is specious with respect to out-of-warranty used items.... No it's not!!! this person has what he perceives as bad service, good on him for telling us!!!! The dealer added to an already stressed situation for the owner when the dealer could have actually helped. OMC a huge Co, was sent under because unhappy boater-campers; who were lied to by dealers & bought their defective engines quickly found out they weren't alone & didn't have to take being BS'd to by dealers. Agreed, but what does the failure of one company have to do with another.... especially, when no link has been suggested or proven? OMC scored poorly in the court of public opinion and (except for Skipper and this recent poster) G-W has scored well above average or better. I was using it as an example of how now people who are unhappy with the treatment they receive can do something about it, i.e. tell the world:-) For years with VRO, gearboxes Ficht etc lying OMC dealers got away with it, but with the internet people could tell their story & most importantly find out they're not alone. Also a member of this NG called Madcow had good success against Brunswick a few years ago by not accepting BS & telling the world what was going on, she got her Mercruiser repaired when at first they didn't want to know her. IIRC, her boat was nearly new and under warranty, too.... and Mercruiser KNEW about the problem, but tried to keep it out of common knowledge. AND they initially tried to fob Madcow off, dishonestly???? it was only when she stood her ground she was taken seriously. I don't suggest her online complaints, nor her coast guard connections were the only reason but I do suggest they helped her get a good outcome. I'm skeptical that the manufacturer will care much about a 1990 boat nor a dealer after your cheque has cleared, so I don't hold out false hope. Nor should you. A 14, soon to be 15, year old boat that has no recorded history or condition(as far as we know) is the unknown quantity, not the dealer or perhaps, manufacturer....... both of which probably know a lot more about this matter than we do. At least they have heard *both* sides. Again, my take on this is that we all need a lot more information on this matter before jumping to any conclusions. As a parting shot, I will mention that I have drilled through the transom on my G-W and it is *at least* 2 inches thick.... that would be 50+mm for you....not the sort of thing you would expect to see break as this one apparently did..... if it were not rotten or subject to some sort of extreme stress... Are you just a unionist or something Gene?? I didn't say the sinking was for a "particular" cause at all, the issue is the dealer saw trouble & like all dealers didn't want to do the right thing & dumped the owner, that's the issue. As I said dealer lackies are why dealers get away with it. K |
Gould 0738 wrote:
So expect some of the NG spammers & dealer lackies will run a spirited defense of this dealer. In this regard I'll warn you of Gould a blatant deliverer of NG spam here. & this would be the spammer I warned you about & below is what you're up against, Chinese whispers. This is about the third unprovoked attack this week, What set you off, again, Karen Smith? Your endless OT political posts!!! Do you have any remarks that might help this party, or is merely using his misfortune as an opportunity to lash out at other people a sufficient reason for your post? I'm encouraging this person to stick with it. The very good news is that there was no loss of life. To split a very tiny hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster. If you actually knew anything about boats of that type, you'd know they nearly always roll over once there's some real water aboard. I guess you think if you can spin it to a capsize on a dangerous bar you can spam the dealer's post sinking behaviour away??? Nice try though. The Columbia Bar is one of the most treacherous places to take a small boat on the west coast. Conditions there can get so severe, that the CG runs a "surfman" school at the location. In surfman school, trainees are taught to broach 40-foot patrol boats until they roll. All aboard are strapped in place, and can be under water for several seconds before the self-righting design turns un-turtle. Yeah yeah you blokes are all the same, all so brave, give it up Chuck if it was rough then it was rough but it sank!!!! It didn't seem rough in the rescue pics. Lots of people get in trouble there with inadequate or unseaworthy vessels or inexperienced seamanship. Sometimes people with adequate skill and proper boats will simply encounter some terrible luck. If the boat in question were manufactured with the defect noted in the complaint, then its a miracle it didn't sink sometime during the first decade. The owner bought it comparatively recently from one of your mates, when he got into trouble for whatever reason(s) your dealers just dumped him, that's the complaint & good on him for telling us about it. K |
Gould 0738 wrote:
What set you off, again, Karen Smith? Your endless OT political posts!!! Fair enough. Shall we expect the same abuse to be aimed at all the other people who posted OT here, or are some of us particularly deserving targets because our politics don't suit your own? MY politics have nothing to do with anything, this is a boating NG, so if you & about 3 others just stop actually starting OT threads, then the rest will go away. Are personal attacks more on-topic than political debates? The personal attacks you complain of are on topic:-) you are a spammer, what about the heater spam the other day??? You see yourself as someone you are not Chuck, you are a big OT poster, I've made an effort to comply with the truce instituted after your election, but you & a few others seem to have used the hiatus as an opportunity to ramp up the OT threads. Logical question, however: if your bitch is with political posts, why do you conjure up weird accusations in on-topic threads? Again if you feel I'm out of line then defend yourself, I can & will point to your deceptive spam I can & will point to your OT threads, if you wish I'll even point to your abuse. Why would you begin attacking me in a thread before I had even made a single statement on the subject? Why?? I need your permission??? I ask why would you continually start OT political threads?? at least my comments are on topic. Would you prefer that I give up posting on-topic altogether? Only the off topic stuff I can & have over time learned to live with your parroting of deceptive marketing spam & have even learned to tolerate some of your other views (white suburbs indeed that still takes some topping) To split a very tiny hair, the boat capsized, rather than sank, but that's no less a disaster. If you actually knew anything about boats of that type, you'd know they nearly always roll over once there's some real water aboard. And if you knew from shoeshine, you'd know there's a difference between sinking and capsizing. In a boat of any type. As I said, a capsizing is no less a disaster. In the context you were trying to spin it that the boat got rolled over on the bar, it didn't the owner was clear it was taking water, once they get a bit in them they roll over, indeed save a well managed dead calm deceptive marketing demonstration they will not remain upright when flooded. Here's some help for you. From Lenfesty's "The Sailor's Illustrated Dictionary", (available at a fine nautical bookstore near you for $24.95 US grin) Capsize: (n) 1. To tun over. Most commonly it means the inadvertant turning over of a boat. To capsize an oil drum is to turn it over, usually to gain access to the bung.......2. A knot which changes its structure under strain is said to capsize. I must say I get a giggle when you tell us about "English":-) that's funny. The boat rolled over as the inevitable "consequence" of taking on water from a leak (it seems around the transom area but....????), it was not the "inadvertent turning over of a boat". Lenfesty doesn't even have an entry for "sink", it's so commonly understood. Merriam-Webster confirms that the most common understanding for the word "sink" is "To go to the bottom." If not towed in promptly that boat would have sunk. Even much larger boats can linger in an inverted position as part of the sinking process. The fact that the creator of the "Give me a free boat, all my money back, maybe both, and then I'll take down this damaging, one-side-of-the-story website," doesn't know the difference between sinking and capsizing, either, might indicate that some of the other facts in the story could be less than accurate as well. So please paste where you got this from, you have no idea do you??? I bet he was upset I bet even a bit unreasonable, so what??? the dealer should have helped, it wouldn't have compromised the dealer indeed could only have helped all concerned. I'll now hold my breath while you castigate several other regular posters who *have* directly challenged the website author's apparent lack of discerning consumerism in purchashing a highly modified, 14 year old boat, (possibly without survey), in the first place. That will be me in the corner of your monitor, turning a suitable shade of blue. You still don't get it do you, the boat filled with water that may or may not be down to the manufacturer, the dealer, the boats age, boat's prior accidents, weather & yes the owner, but the dealer dumping him when he needed them is typical. The owner bought it comparatively recently from one of your mates, when he got into trouble for whatever reason(s) your dealers just dumped him, that's the complaint & good on him for telling us about it. I wonder if this is the first time he used the boat following purchase. If not, what type of damage may have possibly occured after the 14 year-old used boat was sold and the day of the capsize? Should the dealer offer free lifetime repairs, or vessel replacement, to purchasers who buy a used boat "As Is" and then (perhaps) run it aground or damage it while launching at a later date? Chuck please try to stop a second, all that might be right but the dealer just leaving him unsupported isn't. He's unhappy & I support him telling us about it, after all you happily regurgitate deceptive dealer sales pitches all the time here, a bit of comes around is welcome. Neither of us knows all the facts. I speculate there are things that *could* have happened, but you applaud the damning website, say it's entirely the used boat dealer's fault in any event, that a dealership you're not acquainted with is a lousy place to do business, and that anybody else connected with the marine industry is equally a piece of crap. Which of us is being more reasonable, would you think? Me:-) K |
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:41:05 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: My post was spot-on, Ms. Smith's was her usual anti-dealer, anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't you notice? ================================= The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented. A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting. Point well made. Although I, being much smarter than the average fish, can generally out think the critters. Hmmmm - on second thought..... Later, Tom |
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:00:42 -0500, "Tuuk"
wrote: Ya,, tom You better have a second thought,,, lol not the brightest bulb on the tree,, are ya,,, Never claimed to be. Later, Tom |
"MyBoatSank.com" wrote in message ups.com... Believe me go with the Boston Whaler. I almost lost my life and father while fishing on my Grady White Marlin 28' which I purchased in Seattle at Jacobsen's Marine. Take a look at the disaster photos: http://www.MyBoatSank.com The photos on this website are of my Grady White Marlin 28. She is a 1990 model and is equipped with twin Yamaha 250 Sal****er Series outboard engines. She also has a four stroke 9.9hp Yamaha kicker motor and all of the fishing gear that you could ever dream of. I purchased the boat at the Seattle Boat Show in late January of 2004 from a local Grady White dealer, Jacobsen's Marine in the Ballard area of Seattle, Washington. She sank seven months later on September 3, 2004 while fishing with my father at the mouth of the Columbia River. Within eight minutes of leaving the safety of the harbor in Ilwaco, Washington the boat had slipped enough water through a cracked open seam in our splash well to fatally condemn our trip. The experience was absolutely terrifying as my father who is in his eighties and I crossed the Columbia Bar, the "Graveyard of the Pacific", in a sinking boat. Worse yet was not knowing why the boat was sinking. Even worse than that was the response I received from both the dealer, Jacobsen's Marine and the company, Grady White of North Carolina. In the near future, this website will provide more photos, details on how My Grady White Sank and marine safety considerations that will certainly make your boat safer. Thanks for letting me know what you think. I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable. |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
~~ snippage ~~ I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable. Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once). I also didn't care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed very cramped. But they are good boats - no doubt about it. I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :) Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable. Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once). That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a nap. To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002. It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same configuration...but Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above decks. Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat several times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be able to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it. I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn 7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line 7 times. I also didn't care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed very cramped. Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them, by counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has the cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a 24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that into account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it was 4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation is out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the same price that you paid for it. But they are good boats - no doubt about it. I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :) Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well thru-hull? ;-) |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn 7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line 7 times. ============================ Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait? |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn 7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line 7 times. ============================ Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait? Off the doubles (two condos side-by-side) by FMB. 13 ft. of water. Bait: catfish chunk (mid-section). 5/0 Owner hook. 80 lb. Fluorocarbon leader tied uni-to-uni to the 30 lb. Momoi. Free-lined with no weight. I had live thread herrings out on the bottom and a foot under the surface, but with no takers. I caught the fish in late April/early May of this year. You should join the FMB Tarpon Hunters club...or at least monitor channel 6 on the VHF from mid-March through June. You'll see 10-20 boats bunched up anywhere from 1/4 mile to 2 miles off FMB and south Sanibel. If the boats are drifting, then idle *slowly* up-current from them and get in the end of the line. If they're anchored, then idle in *slowly* and make sure you're at least a couple of hundred *yards* aways from another anchored boat. Best bait: catfish chunks, spanish mackeral chunks (catch them now and freeze them), live threadfin herring (greenies). |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable. Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once). That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a nap. To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002. It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same configuration...but Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above decks. Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat several times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be able to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it. I've never had that problem although I've come close. Normally, I'm fishing with guests and I maneuver the boat to prevent that kind of problem. I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn 7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line 7 times. I also didn't care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed very cramped. Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them, by counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has the cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a 24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that into account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it was 4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation is out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the same price that you paid for it.. Good point. But they are good boats - no doubt about it. I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :) Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well thru-hull? ;-) Sea//Tow. :) Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:50:20 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ I've owned (in order) a 13' Whaler, a 22' Whaler, and a 23' Grady-White. I currently own a 17' Whaler and 25' Whaler. My dad owns a 15' Whaler, and my brother owns an 18' Whaler. For the exact reason that you give, I prefer the Whaler. I loved the lay-out of the Grady (easier to fish), but the ride was worse than the 22 or 25 Whaler, it was wetter, and it wasn't unsinkable. Prior to the Contender, I was looking for a new, larger boat for longer offshore trips and trips outside of the islands. Boston Whaler was high on my list of boats, but the pricing was outrageous compared to other boats I looked at. I could certainly afford one - it just went against my natural reluctance to pay the biggest bucks for something. That and Whaler didn't really make a boat similar to the Fountain/Contender/Regulator/Mako type of center consoles with the enclosed cuddy in the bow (although they did once). That's the one that I have. 25' Boston Whaler Outrage Cuddy. It's great with the kids because they can escape the sun or bad weather and take a nap. To be honest though, I'd rather have Whaler's 28' Outrage from 1999-2002. It's a center console...but the console is really just a big cabin plunked down in the middle of the boat. It provides true 360 degree fishability without having to step up onto a narrow walkaround platform like a Grady requires. Contender makes a 31' and a 36' with this same configuration...but Contender's cabins are sleeker, thus providing more fishability above decks. Tarpon, Kings, and Permit are three fish that will circle your boat several times while fighting them. If you happen to be anchored, you better be able to pass that rod under the anchor line when the fish goes under it. I've never had that problem although I've come close. Normally, I'm fishing with guests and I maneuver the boat to prevent that kind of problem. I prefer fishing for tarpon from the 17' for that very reason. The biggest one I caught weighed about 100 lbs. I fought him on spinning gear (Penn 7500 SS and 30 lb test) for 45 minutes...and he passed under the anchor line 7 times. I also didn't care for the lack of room in the Outrage series - the cockpit seemed very cramped. Yes, the new ones are tight. I believe that Whaler has mislabeled them, by counting the added length from the pulpit and Euro transom. The 24' has the cockpit and walkaround room of a 21-footer. The 27' has the room of a 24-footer, and the 32' has the room of a 29-footer. When you take that into account, then the Whaler *really* looks expensive when you compare it to boats with equal room. Nevertheless, I'd buy one...but I'd wait until it was 4 or 5 years old and a little bit cheaper. Once the initial depreciation is out of a new Whaler, you can sell it several years later for almost the same price that you paid for it.. Good point. But they are good boats - no doubt about it. I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :) Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well thru-hull? ;-) Sea//Tow. :) That's true. Plus, if you were sinking, the Coast Guard could always come out to help you in *their* Boston Whaler. ;-) |
MY politics have nothing to do with anything, this is a boating NG, so
if you & about 3 others just stop actually starting OT threads, then the rest will go away. There are over 20 posters who start OT threads in the NG, most of them *start* more OT threads than I, and I'm surely not in 4th place. If 3 of the 20 posters cease and desist, the other 17 will just dry up and blow away? Remember my 90-day experiment last spring? I ducked out of the NG entirely for 90 days, and when I returned the situation was *worse* than when I left. Don't hand me some crap about being the cause of 1/3 or 1/4 of the OT posts. Fact is, you don't like me much. No big deal. I don't care a lot for you, either. One of us doesn't make a habit of seeking out the other to make unprovoked personal attacks. Which of us do you suppose that would be? The personal attacks you complain of are on topic:-) you are a spammer, what about the heater spam the other day??? You see yourself as someone you are not Chuck, you are a big OT poster, I've made an effort to comply with the truce instituted after your election, but you & a few others seem to have used the hiatus as an opportunity to ramp up the OT threads. You weren't heard from for *months* before the election. Do an experiment. Go to Google and check the participation in OT threads since the election. Then reconsider your statement. How is a report detailing the process of installing a diesel heater in a boat, "spam"? Because I mentioned the name of the manufacturer of the product? That's actually an important part of the story, as the DIY kit is, AFIK, unique to that company. While in Google, run a search on Karen Smith and "spam". Go back many, many, years. Extremely revealing. Logical question, however: if your bitch is with political posts, why do you conjure up weird accusations in on-topic threads? Again if you feel I'm out of line then defend yourself, I can & will point to your deceptive spam I can & will point to your OT threads, if you wish I'll even point to your abuse. You miss the point, Karen. If I "defend" myself, then this thread ceases to be about this incident with the Grady White and its comparison to Boston Whaler. It becomes OT. Ask yourself who chose to take it there? Did I toss in some unprovoked, snide personal comments, or did you? If you want to complain about an OT thread, do so within the context of that thread. Chasing somebody around the NG yelling "OT Spammer!" in threads where that party is neither posting OT nor doing any "spamming" under even the most inclusive standards doesn't contribute to the discussion of the subject matter- the very thing you are (supposedly) so chuffed about that after several months of NG silence you can no longer control yourself and your present "targets" here are no different than your previous. Why would you begin attacking me in a thread before I had even made a single statement on the subject? Why?? I need your permission??? No, Karen. You don't need my permission. You are free to behave as badly as you choose, no permission needed. Deliberately trolling for a fight makes the NG more OT, not more on-topic. Would you prefer that I give up posting on-topic altogether? Only the off topic stuff I can & have over time learned to live with your parroting of deceptive marketing spam & have even learned to tolerate some of your other views (white suburbs indeed that still takes some topping) Well in that case, here's a clue for you: Blasting anybody engaged in a behavior you have "learned to tolerate" (big of you, thanks), like my on-topic posting does nothing to encourage that tolerable activity. Odd that you haven't said "squeak" in any of the OT threads, but choose to deal with it after months, and months, by blasting my participation in the on-topic subjects, isn't it? In the context you were trying to spin it that the boat got rolled over on the bar, Sure hope you never make it to jury duty when I'm on trial. :-) I said that such was among the "possibilities". If you were jury foreman and the prosecution said, "We have evidence that Gould was somewhere in the same state when the crime was committed," I'd be doing life without parole. :-) I must say I get a giggle when you tell us about "English":-) that's funny. When you're done laughing, perhaps you'll educate this professional writer by offering a brief explanation of just how "capsize" is synonymous with "sink"? The boat rolled over as the inevitable "consequence" of taking on water from a leak (it seems around the transom area but....????), it was not the "inadvertent turning over of a boat". If the turning over was deliberate, where's the website author's gripe? If not towed in promptly that boat would have sunk. Even much larger boats can linger in an inverted position as part of the sinking process. Very likely. However, the title of the blackmail site is "My boat sank," not "There's a high probability my boat would have gone to the bottom if help hadn't arrived when it did." Sensationalism vs. fact. Does that qualify as "spam"? So please paste where you got this from, you have no idea do you??? You must be new. You don't recall the long list of websites in this tradition? Think of the guy who accepted (for a discount) a transport damaged, underrated Panda generator and then tried to run it 24/7. Remember the couple on the SF Delta who had a misplumbed live well in their brand new boat, left a secure mooring to set back off across the bay in a boat known to be taking on a large quantity of water, and then blasted the salesperson for suggesting they bring the boat back to the dealership and "putting us in danger."? Nearly all of these sites are economically motivated, hoping to use bad publicity where logical argument and examination of facts have not produced a favorable outcome for the consumer. I'll bet you a Washington apple to an Australian whatever that if Grady White gives the guy a new boat, or the dealer refunds the purchase price of the boat he bought, the site will disappear in a heartbeart. The poster who submitted this to rec.boats has never posted anything here, AFAIK. He composed his one-sided website, omitted any facts or circumstances not damaging to the manufacturer or the dealer, and probably posted it everywhere the internet has any boating content what so ever. You still don't get it do you, the boat filled with water that may or may not be down to the manufacturer, the dealer, the boats age, boat's prior accidents, weather & yes the owner, but the dealer dumping him when he needed them is typical. What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer? Chuck please try to stop a second, all that might be right but the dealer just leaving him unsupported isn't. What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer? As I remember, the creator of the website doesn't really detail what the dealer's response was, or wasn't, just that he thought he was given the brush off. I will not believe that he called the dealership and was simply told to go screw himself, not our problem, etc. These "I'll get you!" websites more often than not result from a vendor failing to meet every last expectation, reasonable or not, of a consumer with a problem. Neither of us knows all the facts. I speculate there are things that *could* have happened, but you applaud the damning website, say it's entirely the used boat dealer's fault in any event, that a dealership you're not acquainted with is a lousy place to do business, and that anybody else connected with the marine industry is equally a piece of crap. Which of us is being more reasonable, would you think? Me:-) Well, at least you had the decency not to protest my summary of your position. I'll hand you that. Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/ |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/ Awesome link, Chuck! I especially liked the Fallujah 11/22/04 Update. The "terrorists" (aka--insurgents) were fighting from (or storing arms in) 60% of the Mosques in Fallujah. That (plus the fact that they are not wearing an identifiable uniform, and are playing dead and then shooting our troops) makes them "unlawful combatants"...which means they're not entitled to the protections provided under the Geneva Convention. In fact, if you read one of the captions " Under international law the improper use of privileged buildings to include churches and mosques, is a war crime". |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:27:21 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:27:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ~~ snippage ~~ But they are good boats - no doubt about it. I still wouldn't trade my Contender for one. :) Even in 8 foot confused seas, with two dead batteries, and a leaky live-well thru-hull? ;-) Sea//Tow. :) That's true. Plus, if you were sinking, the Coast Guard could always come out to help you in *their* Boston Whaler. ;-) With Honda engines. Go figure. :) Later, Tom |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:38:03 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: ============================ Where did you catch it, and what kind of bait? Off the doubles (two condos side-by-side) by FMB. 13 ft. of water. Bait: catfish chunk (mid-section). 5/0 Owner hook. 80 lb. Fluorocarbon leader tied uni-to-uni to the 30 lb. Momoi. Free-lined with no weight. I had live thread herrings out on the bottom and a foot under the surface, but with no takers. I caught the fish in late April/early May of this year. You should join the FMB Tarpon Hunters club...or at least monitor channel 6 on the VHF from mid-March through June. You'll see 10-20 boats bunched up anywhere from 1/4 mile to 2 miles off FMB and south Sanibel. If the boats are drifting, then idle *slowly* up-current from them and get in the end of the line. If they're anchored, then idle in *slowly* and make sure you're at least a couple of hundred *yards* aways from another anchored boat. Best bait: catfish chunks, spanish mackeral chunks (catch them now and freeze them), live threadfin herring (greenies). ======================= Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there. From mid-April until the end of May, there's probably not a better tarpon fishery anywhere else in Florida (aside from that zoo that they call Boca Grande Pass). This year, the trick was to get the tarpon up and revived before a 15 foot hammerhead snatched him from you. |
Harry,
Me thinks: Wayne B was doing the trolling, and he caught one. :-) Paul "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1102473781.3d7c816cdbba10c2e8377b28a3ee732d@t eranews... Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:08:31 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: My post was spot-on, Ms. Smith's was her usual anti-dealer, anti-manufacturer nonsense. Or didn't you notice? ================================= The best fisherman troll slowly with the bait carefully presented. A smart fish will look it over very carefully before biting. She wasn't trolling...she was once again trashing dealer and manufacturers. The problem arises when some newbie reads her crap and believes it. |
"MikeG" wrote in message ews.com... Ooooop's sorry, I thought the thread was about boats, Grady Whites and Boston Whalers. Silly me. -- MikeG Heirloom Woods Blame Chuck. His signature line was OT. You know, sort of like "heirloom woods" is off-topic. www.heirloom-woods.net |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:56:06 +0000, NOYB wrote:
Awesome link, Chuck! I especially liked the Fallujah 11/22/04 Update. The "terrorists" (aka--insurgents) were fighting from (or storing arms in) 60% of the Mosques in Fallujah. That (plus the fact that they are not wearing an identifiable uniform, and are playing dead and then shooting our troops) makes them "unlawful combatants"...which means they're not entitled to the protections provided under the Geneva Convention. Repeating this over and over, does not make it true. "Unlawful combatants" *are* protected under the Geneva Conventions. It is true that they may not be afforded "prisoner of war" status, but they are protected. http://www.ciss.ca/Comment_GulfWarPOWs.htm In fact, if you read one of the captions " Under international law the improper use of privileged buildings to include churches and mosques, is a war crime". |
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:26:02 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: Or asking *specifically* *what* the dealer and manufacturer said? No Gene it's what he didn't say when the somewhat shocked owner returned after the sinking, that's the issue. No, K, it is all about what this poster has refused to say.... it hides the *whole* truth... Very altruistic Gene, so now apply the same standards to the dealers & we'll be fine. All of this leads me to believe that there is a lot about this I *don't* know... Having re-examined the photographs I think I know why the manufacturer and the dealer declined. All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is "after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no Do you think the "right thing" is for a seller and/or manufacturer to perpetually warranty a product? Think carefully about this..... can a owner, by their own actions, void a warranty? (Feel free to extend the meaning of "warranty", in this context, to "product liability.") If a warranty is *ever* voided, does the warranty become re-instated when the item is re-sold? Who (and perhaps, how) are the ensuing purchasers to insure that the product is still subject to warranty? OK Gene of course the owner can void the warranty & no the GW are after 9 yrs I'd say well out if it, but the last very recent sale dealer not so. I'm not suggesting the owner be "given" anything & some owners who maliciously damage then make fraudulant claims deserve to be "given" 3 yrs however, all this is dependent upon the dealer still playing their part. Honestly, the dealer could have made some money out of this unfortunate incident, but they chose to just behave like dealers. The internet & these types of groups, if we could get rid of the off topic simpletons:-), are a new experience for sellers who think they can still get away with their time honoured don't care attitude. As tired as I am of OT politico crap, this statement would be appropriate for a warranty item.... but is specious with respect to out-of-warranty used items.... No it's not!!! this person has what he perceives as bad service, good on him for telling us!!!! YES, it IS.... and for the very reason that this poster refused to say WHY the manufacturer declined to fix this boat.... it is all there in the photographs.... can you see it? Looking at the obvious, tell us what you think this poster would have considered "good" service..... Bad on him for telling us HALF THE STORY..... The owner only knows half the story!!! the dealer was the recent seller & should have explained the situation, even offered to get an independent assessment (the insurance will be doing that anyway), then the owner wouldn't feel like he's been abandoned. The dealer added to an already stressed situation for the owner when the dealer could have actually helped. Should have is at issue, here, not could have...... OK if dealers think they can just take the money & then not offer any backup they're mistaken, but before you explode I'm perfectly happy for them to charge for that backup & perfectly happy for people to make money doing whatever the owner asks for & is prepared to pay for. Nor should you. A 14, soon to be 15, year old boat that has no recorded history or condition(as far as we know) is the unknown quantity, not the dealer or perhaps, manufacturer....... both of which probably know a lot more about this matter than we do. At least they have heard *both* sides. Again, my take on this is that we all need a lot more information on this matter before jumping to any conclusions. As a parting shot, I will mention that I have drilled through the transom on my G-W and it is *at least* 2 inches thick.... that would be 50+mm for you....not the sort of thing you would expect to see break as this one apparently did..... if it were not rotten or subject to some sort of extreme stress... This is where I started listening to myself..... the proof and explanation was there, if you know Grady-White boats.... Are you just a unionist or something Gene?? I didn't say the sinking was for a "particular" cause at all, the issue is the dealer saw trouble & like all dealers didn't want to do the right thing & dumped the owner, that's the issue. As I said dealer lackies are why dealers get away with it. No, but you should have, IMHO the sinking WAS almost assuredly for a PARTICULAR CAUSE (the photographs seem to tell the tale).....which would NOT be the fault of, caused by, or reasonably warranted by the manufacturer or dealer...... and was abundantly obvious to this buyer, if he knew anything about Grady-White boats... Gene you do & it's reasonable to say the dealer does too, but why assume the owner does??? he'd only just bought the boat. Again if you were the dealer would you have had any trouble resolving the problem?? to the owner's & insurer's satisfaction??? & all the while making a nice profit for yourself; as you should??? and if you aren't bright enough to figure it out by yourself, I'll thank you to quit calling me or associating me with the nature of a spammer, dealer lackey, unionist, or describing the dealer as "mine" or my "mate." Gee Gene you never seem to show me the same, but just kill file me & we'll be fine. You have already made up your, principally, binary mind that All Owner=Good and All Dealer=BAD, so there is no point in the pretense of having a coherent discussion. However, I'll point out, again, that you have only heard ONE side of this matter, since the poster has clearly and carefully omitted any mention of WHY the dealer and manufacturer declined. This should seem very odd, even to you, that the poor wronged owner should decline to publish the demeaning, despicable, and cowardly words of the ALL BAD dealer. (Doesn't that seem just a *little* odd?) Again Gene you are applying one standard to a traumatised owner & another to dealers, they lie for a living yet you never bother to say anything about that. Think of it this way.... you design, build, manufacture, and sell your diesel outboard. An owner of an outboard that you originally manufactured comes back to you with a 15 year old out-of-warranty broken engine and demands compensation. He is not the original purchaser. Under what conditions would you refuse to "do the right thing" and compensate this owner. Be creative... this poster certainly was... He'd get nothing for free; however he'd leave knowing we listened, explained our position & offered all we could to satisfy him that we are not at fault. That might have involved us in some small amount of time & minimal cost, the difference being that the owner would have not felt we just dumped them. Hopefully might have sold another engine:-) K |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... K. Smith wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: All your questions are OK but regardless this person's complaint is "after" the sinking, the dealer could have probably done the right thing, kept the customer, maintained their dealer reputation AND made a heap out of the insurance Co fixing the boat & motors, but no no no Do you think the "right thing" is for a seller and/or manufacturer to perpetually warranty a product? Think carefully about this..... can a owner, by their own actions, void a warranty? (Feel free to extend the meaning of "warranty", in this context, to "product liability.") If a warranty is *ever* voided, does the warranty become re-instated when the item is re-sold? Who (and perhaps, how) are the ensuing purchasers to insure that the product is still subject to warranty? OK Gene of course the owner can void the warranty & no the GW are after 9 yrs I'd say well out if it, but the last very recent sale dealer not so. What kind of warranty do you think most dealers offer on a 14-year-old boat? Typically, none. Possibly 30 days. What kind of warranty do you think most private individuals selling their boats offer to their purchasers? Typically, none. There's no obligation on the part of the dealer in this case, UNLESS the dealer offered some sort of long-term written warranty. Or if he knew of a defect and intentionally covered it up. Dealers are held to higher standards than private individuals since they're considered "experts" in the field. |
Subject: Boston Whaler or Grady White?
From: Wayne.B Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there. There's big tarpon all along this coast. Capt. Bill |
Ooooop's sorry, I thought the thread was about boats, Grady Whites and
Boston Whalers. Silly me. It is. It was diverted to a sidebar by an OT remark from NOYB and my response to him. He should have started an OT thread, not cluttered this one. |
I can say from my expreience with Jacobson's in Ballard, I wouldn't
trust them ever! I purchased a new 97 35hp 3cyl Johnson outboard from them for around 3500.00, and paid them 500.00 extra for the extended 5yr warranty, When it blew the powerhead I filed a claim and found out I didn't have an extended warranty. They just pocketed the $$. When I showed the reciept for the extended warranty They said, OH we didn't do the deal with you, the dealership was under different ownership then. True story. F... Jacobson's, They Suck! UD http://community.webtv.net/capuglyda...inUglyDansJack |
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:10:53 -0500, "Gene Kearns"
wrote: On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:46:49 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: The owner only knows half the story!!! the dealer was the recent seller & should have explained the situation, The boat could have been sold on consignment, for all I know.... What "situation" would that be? Do you know more about this? even offered to get an independent assessment (the insurance will be doing that anyway), then the owner wouldn't feel like he's been abandoned. Ooooh... good point. I hadn't even thought of that! I wonder if the insurance company knew exactly what they were insuring? Interesting we haven't heard back from the original poster. Personally, I wonder why he had his name and address on his web page and took it off. Because he finally figured out that his "case" wasn't as strong as he thought it was. Embarrassment can do strange things. Live long and prosper, Tom |
|
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On 08 Dec 2004 23:46:12 GMT, (LaBomba182) wrote: Subject: Boston Whaler or Grady White? From: Wayne.B Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there. There's big tarpon all along this coast. Of all the species that I have in my log book, I don't have a tarpon. I'm sure your list of "dont-haves" is a lot shorter than mine. ;-) |
Gould 0738 wrote:
MY politics have nothing to do with anything, this is a boating NG, so if you & about 3 others just stop actually starting OT threads, then the rest will go away. There are over 20 posters who start OT threads in the NG, most of them *start* more OT threads than I, and I'm surely not in 4th place. If 3 of the 20 posters cease and desist, the other 17 will just dry up and blow away? Remember my 90-day experiment last spring? I ducked out of the NG entirely for 90 days, and when I returned the situation was *worse* than when I left. Don't hand me some crap about being the cause of 1/3 or 1/4 of the OT posts. Damn a long one here we go:-) Chuck after the elections it was hoped you, jps etc & you know who might at least accept the outcome & cut it back you haven't; if anything you've gotten worse. Fact is, you don't like me much. No big deal. I don't care a lot for you, either. One of us doesn't make a habit of seeking out the other to make unprovoked personal attacks. Which of us do you suppose that would be? It's me:-) & expect I'll continue as long as you continue OT political stuff, so we have a deal yes?? The personal attacks you complain of are on topic:-) you are a spammer, what about the heater spam the other day??? You see yourself as someone you are not Chuck, you are a big OT poster, I've made an effort to comply with the truce instituted after your election, but you & a few others seem to have used the hiatus as an opportunity to ramp up the OT threads. You weren't heard from for *months* before the election. Do an experiment. Go to Google and check the participation in OT threads since the election. Then reconsider your statement. I gave up just as I did before your last election when Gore lost:-) this NG is ruined by a few OT posters, you & Krause being the main players. How is a report detailing the process of installing a diesel heater in a boat, "spam"? Because I mentioned the name of the manufacturer of the product? That's actually an important part of the story, as the DIY kit is, AFIK, unique to that company. Come on chuckles it was a paid advertisement!! you got the heater cheap I take it in exchange for spamming us??? Nice one Chuckles. While in Google, run a search on Karen Smith and "spam". Go back many, many, years. Extremely revealing. Gee me selling anything at all??? If there are so many you'll have no trouble pasting at least what say 3 examples??? go for it; if you can I'll put my hands up to that, but I doubt you will. Logical question, however: if your bitch is with political posts, why do you conjure up weird accusations in on-topic threads? Again if you feel I'm out of line then defend yourself, I can & will point to your deceptive spam I can & will point to your OT threads, if you wish I'll even point to your abuse. You miss the point, Karen. If I "defend" myself, then this thread ceases to be about this incident with the Grady White and its comparison to Boston Whaler. It becomes OT. Ask yourself who chose to take it there? Did I toss in some unprovoked, snide personal comments, or did you? You really are up yourself chucky, chuckys in love with chucky. I don't need your permission or acceptance of anything I say or don't say. You are a political OT & spam poster, so as far as I'm concerned fair game in any circumstances. If you want to complain about an OT thread, do so within the context of that thread. Chasing somebody around the NG yelling "OT Spammer!" in threads where that party is neither posting OT nor doing any "spamming" under even the most inclusive standards doesn't contribute to the discussion of the subject matter- the very thing you are (supposedly) so chuffed about that after several months of NG silence you can no longer control yourself and your present "targets" here are no different than your previous. Get this the OT spammer now says he can set the rules for complaining about his OT & spam??? Not likely, the best I can do is when I feel so inclined lob a grenade your way & I do & I will. Why would you begin attacking me in a thread before I had even made a single statement on the subject? Why?? I need your permission??? No, Karen. You don't need my permission. You are free to behave as badly as you choose, no permission needed. Deliberately trolling for a fight makes the NG more OT, not more on-topic. Well thanks I chose to behave against OT spammers, you chose to be an OT spammer, there we have it. Would you prefer that I give up posting on-topic altogether? Only the off topic stuff I can & have over time learned to live with your parroting of deceptive marketing spam & have even learned to tolerate some of your other views (white suburbs indeed that still takes some topping) Well in that case, here's a clue for you: Blasting anybody engaged in a behavior you have "learned to tolerate" (big of you, thanks), like my on-topic posting does nothing to encourage that tolerable activity. Odd that you haven't said "squeak" in any of the OT threads, but choose to deal with it after months, and months, by blasting my participation in the on-topic subjects, isn't it? I've seen what happens to the huge number of people who have politely asked you to stop it, you Chuck, that's you personally, set upon them. No thanks we all handle things our own way, mine it to point out you are an OT spammer, an ex used car salesman & ex boat broker (people can make their own minds up about that), know little about boats as demonstrated from your continual parroting of spam fed to you by dealers. In the context you were trying to spin it that the boat got rolled over on the bar, Sure hope you never make it to jury duty when I'm on trial. :-) You should too I'm against the death penalty in any circumstance but if it were say parking in a no spam area, you'd be a lifer for sure. I said that such was among the "possibilities". If you were jury foreman and the prosecution said, "We have evidence that Gould was somewhere in the same state when the crime was committed," I'd be doing life without parole. :-) Yep, even without evidence, if it meant you could no longer start political OT threads & spam in this NG. I must say I get a giggle when you tell us about "English":-) that's funny. When you're done laughing, perhaps you'll educate this professional writer by offering a brief explanation of just how "capsize" is synonymous with "sink"? The boat rolled over as the inevitable "consequence" of taking on water from a leak (it seems around the transom area but....????), it was not the "inadvertent turning over of a boat". If the turning over was deliberate, where's the website author's gripe? If not towed in promptly that boat would have sunk. Even much larger boats can linger in an inverted position as part of the sinking process. Very likely. However, the title of the blackmail site is "My boat sank," not "There's a high probability my boat would have gone to the bottom if help hadn't arrived when it did." Sensationalism vs. fact. Does that qualify as "spam"? So please paste where you got this from, you have no idea do you??? You must be new. You don't recall the long list of websites in this tradition? Think of the guy who accepted (for a discount) a transport damaged, underrated Panda generator and then tried to run it 24/7. Remember the couple on the SF Delta who had a misplumbed live well in their brand new boat, left a secure mooring to set back off across the bay in a boat known to be taking on a large quantity of water, and then blasted the salesperson for suggesting they bring the boat back to the dealership and "putting us in danger."? Nearly all of these sites are economically motivated, hoping to use bad publicity where logical argument and examination of facts have not produced a favorable outcome for the consumer. I'll bet you a Washington apple to an Australian whatever that if Grady White gives the guy a new boat, or the dealer refunds the purchase price of the boat he bought, the site will disappear in a heartbeart. I'm not supporting his case for money I am supporting him telling the world he's not happy, it might be untrue just as most of the spam you post here about boats you're trying to help market isn't true. The fact you don't know any better doesn't make it true, you repeat the spam marketing line, if you didn't ................... He's not trying to sell anything to people, particularly people here can make their own minds up about the merits or otherwise. The poster who submitted this to rec.boats has never posted anything here, AFAIK. He composed his one-sided website, omitted any facts or circumstances not damaging to the manufacturer or the dealer, and probably posted it everywhere the internet has any boating content what so ever. Gee again apply this to the dealers. You still don't get it do you, the boat filled with water that may or may not be down to the manufacturer, the dealer, the boats age, boat's prior accidents, weather & yes the owner, but the dealer dumping him when he needed them is typical. What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer? Clearly from the owners response anything but whatever he did:-) Chuck please try to stop a second, all that might be right but the dealer just leaving him unsupported isn't. What would you consider an "acceptable" response from the dealer? As I remember, the creator of the website doesn't really detail what the dealer's response was, or wasn't, just that he thought he was given the brush off. I will not believe that he called the dealership and was simply told to go screw himself, not our problem, etc. It sounds like the owner was upset & probably made some over the top demands, but so what?? the dealer is in business & just made a heap of money from this person, as I said anyone but a dealer would have handled it so the owner was at least aware of the facts if not exactly happy about them & with a bit of luck the dealer could have made lots more money from the boat. These "I'll get you!" websites more often than not result from a vendor failing to meet every last expectation, reasonable or not, of a consumer with a problem. See Chuck that's your problem you depend on consumers having nowhere to go now they do, as I said a good example was Ficht despite the dealers lies owners knew they weren't alone & could vent their anger. Neither of us knows all the facts. I speculate there are things that *could* have happened, but you applaud the damning website, say it's entirely the used boat dealer's fault in any event, that a dealership you're not acquainted with is a lousy place to do business, and that anybody else connected with the marine industry is equally a piece of crap. Which of us is being more reasonable, would you think? Me:-) Well, at least you had the decency not to protest my summary of your position. I'll hand you that. I wouldn't if I were you:-) now I won't ignore your spam because I can't be bothered with your protests. K Really support our troops. Join "Soldiers for The Truth". http://www.sftt.org/ |
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:04:16 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:08:32 +0000, NOYB wrote: Jesus H. Christ on a crutch - can we just once, one single time, keep a boating thread ON TOPIC? Damn.............. Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:04:16 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:08:32 +0000, NOYB wrote: Jesus H. Christ on a crutch - can we just once, one single time, keep a boating thread ON TOPIC? So then why are you bringing religion into this thread? |
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:13:41 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On 08 Dec 2004 23:46:12 GMT, (LaBomba182) wrote: Subject: Boston Whaler or Grady White? From: Wayne.B Good information, thanks. I can run down to FMB in about 45 mins from here but had not realized there were big Tarpon offshore there. There's big tarpon all along this coast. Of all the species that I have in my log book, I don't have a tarpon. I'm sure your list of "dont-haves" is a lot shorter than mine. ;-) Ok, I'm not bragging here - just so that we understand each other. And we'll keep this to sal****er game fish. Billfish: Pacific/Atlantic Blue, black, white marlin - don't have a striped or green. Atlantic/Pacific Sail, sword and a spearfish, but I can't take credit for it because it didn't get tagged. Tunas: All eight species. Shark: Mako, blue, black tip, hammerhead, tiger. Misc: Barracuda, wahoo, dolphin, snook, bonefish, permit, King salmon, two species of grouper, striped bass That's right off the top of my head - actually the most memorable fish I've caught. Later, Tom |
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:41:37 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:04:16 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:08:32 +0000, NOYB wrote: Jesus H. Christ on a crutch - can we just once, one single time, keep a boating thread ON TOPIC? So then why are you bringing religion into this thread? AAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!1 :) Later, Tom |
"K. Smith" wrote in message ... I'm not suggesting the owner be "given" anything & some owners who maliciously damage then make fraudulant claims deserve to be "given" 3 yrs however, all this is dependent upon the dealer still playing their part. Honestly, the dealer could have made some money out of this unfortunate incident, but they chose to just behave like dealers. snip Again Gene you are applying one standard to a traumatised owner & another to dealers, they lie for a living yet you never bother to say anything about that. snip He'd get nothing for free; however he'd leave knowing we listened, explained our position & offered all we could to satisfy him that we are not at fault. That might have involved us in some small amount of time & minimal cost, the difference being that the owner would have not felt we just dumped them. Hopefully might have sold another engine:-) K Nope. You would decline to rebuild his motor for free, even though it threatened his life by dying during a storm in the Pacific, whereupon he would threaten to trash you on the internet and would proceed to do so. This guy bought some junk and it did what junk does. Now he is badmouthing the dealer and the manufacturer. John Edwards would be outraged. Sorry Karen, I disagree with you this time. I've seen too many of these guys. Do you know any stores that have Satisfaction Guaranteed like Sears used to? Wonder why they don't any more? Have return policies gotten tougher? Wonder why? There was the guy who brought his waders back to Sears with a big knife cut in them. Said he wanted his money back, they leaked. Got it too. And I saw a pair of hiking boots that had been returned to an outdoor store around her (REI for those in the states). The soles were almost gone. reason for return "didn't fit". del cecchi |
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