An OT bit of humor.
 

Note: I did not write this, nor do I propose it to be truthful. It is
posted as a piece of humor, a work of fiction, nothing more (even if
some of you find some truth herein).

-------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary from the Soapbox.....
Cultural Evolution....

Division of the human family into 2 distinct political groups began
some 12,000 years ago. Humans existed as members of small bands of
nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains in the
summer and would go to the beach and live on fish and lobster in
winter.

The two most important events in all of history were the invention of
beer and the invention of the wheel. (The wheel was invented to get
man to the beer.) These were the foundations of modern civilization
and, together, were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into
two distinct sub-groups: Liberals and Conservatives.

Once beer was discovered it required grain and that was the beginning
of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were
invented yet so, while our early human ancestors were sitting around
waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the
brewery. That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night
while they were drinking beer. This is what is known as the beginning
of the "conservative movement".

Other men, who were weaker and less skilled at hunting, learned to
live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and
doing the sewing, fetching and hair dressing. This the beginning of
the "liberal movement". Some of these liberal men eventually evolved
into women. The rest became known as "girly-men".

Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of
cats, the trade unions, contour bed sheets, group therapy, group hugs
and, the concept of democratic voting to decide how the divide the
meat and beer that the conservatives provided.

Over the years, conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest,
most powerful land animal on earth...the elephant. Liberals are
symbolized by the jackass.

Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime) but, most prefer white
wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef
well done. Sushi, tofu and French food are standard liberal fare.
(Another interesting side note: most of their women in this group
have higher testosterone levels than the men.)

Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists,
"fantacists"/dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals.
Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it "wasn't fair"
to make the pitcher also bat.

Conservatives drink domestic beer and eat red meat & potatoes.
Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks,
construction worker, medical doctors, police officers, corporate
executives, soldiers, athletes and, generally anyone who works
productively outside government. Conservatives who own companies hire
other conservatives who want to work for a living.

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the
producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe
Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of
the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to
America. They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created
businesses of trying to get MORE for nothing.

That ends today's lesson on world history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

....and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

"Don White" wrote in message
...
...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!



John, Don is obviously one of those screwballs who believes that teachers
cannot be human beings with their own feelings and beliefs, although those
feelings and beliefs are not expressed in any way in the classroom.

I guess the concept is too hard for him to understand....after all, in a
communist nation everyone thinks the same and cannot possess an original
thought.

Eh Comrade White?

"JimH" wrote in message
...

I guess the concept is too hard for him to understand....after all, in a
communist nation everyone thinks the same and cannot possess an original
thought.

Eh Comrade White?



Wouldn't know...I've never been to a communist nation.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

John H
....mmmmmm never mind!
One question...do you get a bounty for any kids 'recruited' to the military?

----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Krause
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: An OT bit of humor.



Hehehe.

You've really got to have no choices at all to join the military these
days.




Hehehe yourself, bud.

Harry, I sincerely invite you to visit a modern military base or
installation and witness for yourself what the caliber of most of these
young men and women are. I have. And I was blown away. With few exceptions,
these are the brightest, best trained, committed and professional group of
people I have seen in many years of both military and civilian management
experience.

Use your "journalist" credentials or attend an open house on a ship or other
military base. Talk to the enlisted guys and gals. Talk to the junior
officers. Ask them about their jobs and what they do. And ask them why they
do it.

You are in for a big surprise, my friend.

Eisboch

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:32:33 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Krause
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: An OT bit of humor.



Hehehe.

You've really got to have no choices at all to join the military these
days.

Hehehe yourself, bud.

Harry, I sincerely invite you to visit a modern military base or
installation and witness for yourself what the caliber of most of these
young men and women are. I have. And I was blown away. With few exceptions,
these are the brightest, best trained, committed and professional group of
people I have seen in many years of both military and civilian management
experience.

Use your "journalist" credentials or attend an open house on a ship or other
military base. Talk to the enlisted guys and gals. Talk to the junior
officers. Ask them about their jobs and what they do. And ask them why they
do it.

You are in for a big surprise, my friend.

Damn straight.

When I go to Walter Reed every couple of months, I am always amazed at
the pure courage and morale of these troops.

I attend every Marine funeral held in CT. I'm even more amazed at the
courage and morale of their friends and family.

It's amazing.

Later,

Tom

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:04:23 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

...mmmmmm never mind!
One question...do you get a bounty for any kids 'recruited' to the military?

Hehehe.

You've really got to have no choices at all to join the military these
days.

Harry, sometimes you just jump right over the edge without looking.

Unfortunate.

Later,

Tom

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:5wund.937381$Gx4.629657@bgtnsc04-
Harry, I sincerely invite you to visit a modern military base or
installation and witness for yourself what the caliber of most of these
young men and women are. I have. And I was blown away. With few
exceptions,
these are the brightest, best trained, committed and professional group of
people I have seen in many years of both military and civilian management
experience.

snip

I am an outsider......but this seems all the more reason not to squander
these people on a dubious expedition.

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:5wund.937381$Gx4.629657@bgtnsc04-
Harry, I sincerely invite you to visit a modern military base or
installation and witness for yourself what the caliber of most of these
young men and women are. I have. And I was blown away. With few
exceptions,
these are the brightest, best trained, committed and professional group
of
people I have seen in many years of both military and civilian management
experience.

snip

I am an outsider......

So who asked for or wants your opinion?

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:59:55 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

John H
...mmmmmm never mind!
One question...do you get a bounty for any kids 'recruited' to the military?


Nope. But I would be interested in your answer to my question.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:04:23 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

John H
...mmmmmm never mind!
One question...do you get a bounty for any kids 'recruited' to the military?



Hehehe.

You've really got to have no choices at all to join the military these
days.

Spoken from the heart by one who knows nothing of the military.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:33:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:04:23 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:32:45 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

...and you're teaching impressionable high school kids??? No wonder
society is heading down the crapper!

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

...mmmmmm never mind!
One question...do you get a bounty for any kids 'recruited' to the military?

Hehehe.

You've really got to have no choices at all to join the military these
days.

Harry, sometimes you just jump right over the edge without looking.

Unfortunate.

Later,

Tom

Harry will come back with some weaselly excuse for his comment. He
won't have meant what he said, and blah, blah, blah.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom

You're finally catching on. Everyone does sooner or later.

Well, not everyone. Even a dog has got his fleas, so I suppose an
asshole has got his worms.

-- Charlie

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Nope. But I would be interested in your answer to my question.

John H


You took the trouble to post that item. Do you believe that liberals are
'girly men' and if you do...do you pass on your prejudices to your students?

Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100920343.rQA4M/wy9xpTzYE8lIGbDw@teranews...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom


Are you positing that the brightest young men and women in this country
(in the 18-24 age category) go into the military instead of going to
college? Or thoat some bright kids who drop out of college end up in the
military? Or that others who drop out of college do something else?

What percentage of really bright young people, those with academic
skills and high college boards, skip college to join the Army of One? I
would guess a really, really small percentage. I'll bet there are stats
somewhere that back up my position.

I'm not claming that *everyone* in the military is stupid, or even less
bright than average. I'm positing that there is little incentive for our
brightest kids to join the military instead of going to college.

And what's partisan about that?

Here's something else to consider. Many anti- and non- intellectuals in
this country will frequently say "Those who can, do...those who cannot,
teach." Well, I think that is bull****. "Those that can, do...and many
of those teach. And those who cannot, well, they ..............

I'll let you finish that on your own.



I'll finish it. You are wrong.

High college boards and academic skills are not the only criteria to judge
how bright an individual is, nor are they any indication of their value or
contribution to society. Some of the most accomplished people I know would
be considered stupid according to your measure.

As to why young people join the military, there are as many reasons as there
are people that join. If you really think that people serving 4 years of
their life in the military are doing so simply because they can't hack it as
a civilian, you have really missed something important in life.

Good grief, Harry, just think. If everyone were as smart as you, you would
be average.

Eisboch

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:37:13 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100920343.rQA4M/wy9xpTzYE8lIGbDw@teranews...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom


Are you positing that the brightest young men and women in this country
(in the 18-24 age category) go into the military instead of going to
college? Or thoat some bright kids who drop out of college end up in the
military? Or that others who drop out of college do something else?

What percentage of really bright young people, those with academic
skills and high college boards, skip college to join the Army of One? I
would guess a really, really small percentage. I'll bet there are stats
somewhere that back up my position.

I'm not claming that *everyone* in the military is stupid, or even less
bright than average. I'm positing that there is little incentive for our
brightest kids to join the military instead of going to college.

And what's partisan about that?

Here's something else to consider. Many anti- and non- intellectuals in
this country will frequently say "Those who can, do...those who cannot,
teach." Well, I think that is bull****. "Those that can, do...and many
of those teach. And those who cannot, well, they ..............

I'll let you finish that on your own.



I'll finish it. You are wrong.

High college boards and academic skills are not the only criteria to judge
how bright an individual is, nor are they any indication of their value or
contribution to society. Some of the most accomplished people I know would
be considered stupid according to your measure.

As to why young people join the military, there are as many reasons as there
are people that join. If you really think that people serving 4 years of
their life in the military are doing so simply because they can't hack it as
a civilian, you have really missed something important in life.

Good grief, Harry, just think. If everyone were as smart as you, you would
be average.

I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism. More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

It is not unique to the United States and it does not necessarily mean you
agree with the policy makers. For most, it's a short, four year experience.
In my case, I managed through nine years of active duty, driven primarily
because the Navy kept offering interesting schools. I realize now that I
got a lot more out of my service than I gave. What Harry thinks just doesn't
matter.

Finally, from personal experience, I attended college for a while after high
school, then entered the Navy. (I guess to Harry I was a non-hacker). I
finished my degree requirements at night after I was discharged and the
majority of those I took classes with had also been recently discharged.
(Thank you, GI bill). The attitude and motivation of those attending after
military service was very, very different than the knuckleheads (including
me) that attended right out of high school.

Eisboch

Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100963019.X1mxwAoF0tv6hw5X7W3v0g@teranews...


Our military is a tool and willing partner. Its primary mission is to
perpetuate itself.


--


Ok. You have made your opinion very clear.

BTW, I understand your distinction between the "military" and the "military
institution" and, in that distinction, we are probably closer in thought. I
think it's important to be very clear in the communication of an opinion so
that it is not misunderstood. John Kerry didn't understand this and he
suffered for it.

Eisboch

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:09:27 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

Nope. But I would be interested in your answer to my question.

John H


You took the trouble to post that item. Do you believe that liberals are
'girly men' and if you do...do you pass on your prejudices to your students?


You've still not answered the question.

What did that post have to do with teaching. Or, what does teaching
have to do with that post?

If by 'girly men' you mean 'effeminate', then I would say that some
liberals fit that description. Of course, some conservatives do also,
but that wasn't your question.

I pass on my prejudices regarding mathematics to my students at every
opportunity.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:44:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:37:13 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100920343.rQA4M/wy9xpTzYE8lIGbDw@teranews...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom


Are you positing that the brightest young men and women in this country
(in the 18-24 age category) go into the military instead of going to
college? Or thoat some bright kids who drop out of college end up in the
military? Or that others who drop out of college do something else?

What percentage of really bright young people, those with academic
skills and high college boards, skip college to join the Army of One? I
would guess a really, really small percentage. I'll bet there are stats
somewhere that back up my position.

I'm not claming that *everyone* in the military is stupid, or even less
bright than average. I'm positing that there is little incentive for our
brightest kids to join the military instead of going to college.

And what's partisan about that?

Here's something else to consider. Many anti- and non- intellectuals in
this country will frequently say "Those who can, do...those who cannot,
teach." Well, I think that is bull****. "Those that can, do...and many
of those teach. And those who cannot, well, they ..............

I'll let you finish that on your own.



I'll finish it. You are wrong.

High college boards and academic skills are not the only criteria to judge
how bright an individual is, nor are they any indication of their value or
contribution to society. Some of the most accomplished people I know would
be considered stupid according to your measure.

As to why young people join the military, there are as many reasons as there
are people that join. If you really think that people serving 4 years of
their life in the military are doing so simply because they can't hack it as
a civilian, you have really missed something important in life.

Good grief, Harry, just think. If everyone were as smart as you, you would
be average.

I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom

Hang in there, Tom. Harry will weasel himself back into your good
graces, or at least try. He doesn't have many who 'like' him for the
very reason you describe.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:12:14 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

My experience tells me that the brightest young men and women (18-24 or
so) are in college. Some percentage of bright kids who cannot hack it in
college drop out and join the military, others drop out and do something
else. I posit that very, very few of our brightest 18-year-olds opt for
the military.

You could not be more wrong.

You are letting your predilection for partisan causes cloud your
vision, Harry. I thought better of you.

Later,

Tom


Are you positing that the brightest young men and women in this country
(in the 18-24 age category) go into the military instead of going to
college? Or thoat some bright kids who drop out of college end up in the
military? Or that others who drop out of college do something else?

What percentage of really bright young people, those with academic
skills and high college boards, skip college to join the Army of One? I
would guess a really, really small percentage. I'll bet there are stats
somewhere that back up my position.

I'm not claming that *everyone* in the military is stupid, or even less
bright than average. I'm positing that there is little incentive for our
brightest kids to join the military instead of going to college.

And what's partisan about that?

Here's something else to consider. Many anti- and non- intellectuals in
this country will frequently say "Those who can, do...those who cannot,
teach." Well, I think that is bull****. "Those that can, do...and many
of those teach. And those who cannot, well, they ..............

I'll let you finish that on your own.

Harry, you know nothing of the military other than what you've read in
the Washington Post.

You are getting good at the "Weasel Dance" though!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:03:33 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100958988.eHbW4nrZO30sidk9GFsjeA@teranews...

I'm sorry, but I have very little respect for "the military" as an
institution. As it exists today, it is an obsolete institution built
upon lies, deceit and self-perpetuation and is virtually useless in
defending the United States from the kind of aggression we face these
days. Simply stated, our military cannot defend us from the terrorists
who want to create havoc and death within the borders of the United
States.


Whew... I think it's the policy makers Harry, not the "military".

Oh? Please explain how "our military" plans to defend a major American
city from a couple of guys driving into the center of it in a rental van
with a nuke inside. You don't really think hordes of terrorists are
planning to come ashore via LSTs at Newport, Rhode Island, do you?

Remember, our military is supposed to defend the homeland. Something it
is incapable of doing in the face of modern terrorist warfare.

The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military
forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The mission of the Department of Homeland Security is stated below:

We (DHS) will lead the unified national effort to secure America. We
will prevent and deter terrorist attacks and protect against and
respond to threats and hazards to the nation. We will ensure safe and
secure borders, welcome lawful immigrants and visitors, and promote
the free-flow of commerce.

The military is not responsible for your rental van terrorists, nor
should it be. You need to direct your acrimony towards the appropriate
agencies.


John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:21:47 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

You're jumping from my generalizations to specific individuals. My point
is this: generally speaking, our brightest 18-24 year olds do not enlist
in the military. Our brightest youngsters in that age category head for
college. If you have some legitimate statistics that dispute my posit,
I'll be glad to look at them. I'm NOT saying that no bright kids head
for the military, because certainly some do. But the brightest kids have
better options.

I recently read a couple of articles that indicated the Army was
planning on lowering the mental ability standards in its "admission
tests" to accommodate the kinds of enlistees it was getting these days.
If that is the case, it does not bode well for the "best and brightest"
claim.


I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't dispute that. It's too bad that their patriotism is
being squandered by a neocon fascist administration, though, eh? And
that the institution they serve - the military - is so corrupt and
self-serving. As I have stated any number of times, I have respect for
individual soliders, but not much for "the military" as an institution.


More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

Indeed...which is why I have so much respect for classroom teachers,
firemen, nurses, case workers, religious workers who truly help the poor
and the sick, and soldiers involved in genuine, multi-national
peacekeeping efforts that stop wars.

What a weasel. Your "respect for classroom teachers" can be seen in
the many negative comments you've made about teachers.

Harry, you're just like Kerry. You say whatever you think will be well
received by the audience you're trying to impress.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:27:42 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:03:33 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100958988.eHbW4nrZO30sidk9GFsjeA@teranews...

I'm sorry, but I have very little respect for "the military" as an
institution. As it exists today, it is an obsolete institution built
upon lies, deceit and self-perpetuation and is virtually useless in
defending the United States from the kind of aggression we face these
days. Simply stated, our military cannot defend us from the terrorists
who want to create havoc and death within the borders of the United
States.


Whew... I think it's the policy makers Harry, not the "military".

Oh? Please explain how "our military" plans to defend a major American
city from a couple of guys driving into the center of it in a rental van
with a nuke inside. You don't really think hordes of terrorists are
planning to come ashore via LSTs at Newport, Rhode Island, do you?

Remember, our military is supposed to defend the homeland. Something it
is incapable of doing in the face of modern terrorist warfare.

The mission of the Department of Defense is.

The mission of the Department of Homeland Security

It doesn't matter. Neither of them can defend the homeland.

What doesn't matter is your lack of subject knowledge.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:21:47 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

You're jumping from my generalizations to specific individuals. My point
is this: generally speaking, our brightest 18-24 year olds do not enlist
in the military. Our brightest youngsters in that age category head for
college. If you have some legitimate statistics that dispute my posit,
I'll be glad to look at them. I'm NOT saying that no bright kids head
for the military, because certainly some do. But the brightest kids have
better options.

I recently read a couple of articles that indicated the Army was
planning on lowering the mental ability standards in its "admission
tests" to accommodate the kinds of enlistees it was getting these days.
If that is the case, it does not bode well for the "best and brightest"
claim.


I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't dispute that. It's too bad that their patriotism is
being squandered by a neocon fascist administration, though, eh? And
that the institution they serve - the military - is so corrupt and
self-serving. As I have stated any number of times, I have respect for
individual soliders, but not much for "the military" as an institution.


More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

Indeed...which is why I have so much respect for classroom teachers,
firemen, nurses, case workers, religious workers who truly help the poor
and the sick, and soldiers involved in genuine, multi-national
peacekeeping efforts that stop wars.

What a weasel. Your "respect for classroom teachers" can be seen in
the many negative comments you've made about teachers.

Bull. I've made negative comments about *you* as a teacher.

You lie, Harry.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:21:47 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

You're jumping from my generalizations to specific individuals. My point
is this: generally speaking, our brightest 18-24 year olds do not enlist
in the military. Our brightest youngsters in that age category head for
college. If you have some legitimate statistics that dispute my posit,
I'll be glad to look at them. I'm NOT saying that no bright kids head
for the military, because certainly some do. But the brightest kids have
better options.

I recently read a couple of articles that indicated the Army was
planning on lowering the mental ability standards in its "admission
tests" to accommodate the kinds of enlistees it was getting these days.
If that is the case, it does not bode well for the "best and brightest"
claim.


I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't dispute that. It's too bad that their patriotism is
being squandered by a neocon fascist administration, though, eh? And
that the institution they serve - the military - is so corrupt and
self-serving. As I have stated any number of times, I have respect for
individual soliders, but not much for "the military" as an institution.


More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

Indeed...which is why I have so much respect for classroom teachers,
firemen, nurses, case workers, religious workers who truly help the poor
and the sick, and soldiers involved in genuine, multi-national
peacekeeping efforts that stop wars.

What a weasel. Your "respect for classroom teachers" can be seen in
the many negative comments you've made about teachers.

Bull. I've made negative comments about *you* as a teacher.

I stand corrected. You*have* made negative comments about me as a
teacher (never having seen me in the classroom, which again shows your
profound lack of knowledge). However, the 'bull' part is a lie. You
have denigrated the teaching profession. Now weasel out of it.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:06:02 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
.. .


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism. More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

I agree with you. I'm not offended either, it's just that a
particular viewpoint from somebody who is clearly smart and well
spoken is offensive in that it's driven not by fact but by ideology.
Ideology is all it's facets offends me a great deal. It's almost as
if ideology forces you to become what you most despise - if that makes
any sense. To put it another way, the lefter you go, the righter you
get. :)

My two are incredibly smart, one is still in (career) and one is a
Reservist who, incidentally, is married to a career Naval Officer.
The fact that one graduated from Suma from Case Western and the other
Magna from Tufts kind belies Harry's reasoning, yes? :)

It is not unique to the United States and it does not necessarily mean you
agree with the policy makers. For most, it's a short, four year experience.
In my case, I managed through nine years of active duty, driven primarily
because the Navy kept offering interesting schools. I realize now that I
got a lot more out of my service than I gave. What Harry thinks just doesn't
matter.

Finally, from personal experience, I attended college for a while after high
school, then entered the Navy. (I guess to Harry I was a non-hacker). I
finished my degree requirements at night after I was discharged and the
majority of those I took classes with had also been recently discharged.
(Thank you, GI bill). The attitude and motivation of those attending after
military service was very, very different than the knuckleheads (including
me) that attended right out of high school.

I had a similar experience, only I was offered an Lead
Instructor/Trainer slot which are highly prized in the Corps and I
took advantage of it. I reenlisted for two years, taught one week in
three and made arrangements for that week with the professors where I
was attending. When I finished my six years, I was a year and a half
shy of graduation as a General Engineer and when they credited my
advanced math/science placement, I had to do one semester in
humanities and a half semester electives - which in my case was more
math. :) I even got to play a little college baseball (taxi squad
unfortunately).

Even with two combat tours, I wouldn't trade the experience for
anything.

And with that, I shall remove myself from this discussion permanently.

Peace. Out.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:35:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:27:42 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:03:33 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100958988.eHbW4nrZO30sidk9GFsjeA@teranews...

I'm sorry, but I have very little respect for "the military" as an
institution. As it exists today, it is an obsolete institution built
upon lies, deceit and self-perpetuation and is virtually useless in
defending the United States from the kind of aggression we face these
days. Simply stated, our military cannot defend us from the terrorists
who want to create havoc and death within the borders of the United
States.


Whew... I think it's the policy makers Harry, not the "military".

Oh? Please explain how "our military" plans to defend a major American
city from a couple of guys driving into the center of it in a rental van
with a nuke inside. You don't really think hordes of terrorists are
planning to come ashore via LSTs at Newport, Rhode Island, do you?

Remember, our military is supposed to defend the homeland. Something it
is incapable of doing in the face of modern terrorist warfare.

The mission of the Department of Defense is.

The mission of the Department of Homeland Security

It doesn't matter. Neither of them can defend the homeland.

What doesn't matter is your lack of subject knowledge.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


After we're attacked again, I'll be sure to remind you that neither our
DoD nor homeland security can defend this country.

What's your idea, Harry? How would you defend the country?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:36:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:21:47 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

You're jumping from my generalizations to specific individuals. My point
is this: generally speaking, our brightest 18-24 year olds do not enlist
in the military. Our brightest youngsters in that age category head for
college. If you have some legitimate statistics that dispute my posit,
I'll be glad to look at them. I'm NOT saying that no bright kids head
for the military, because certainly some do. But the brightest kids have
better options.

I recently read a couple of articles that indicated the Army was
planning on lowering the mental ability standards in its "admission
tests" to accommodate the kinds of enlistees it was getting these days.
If that is the case, it does not bode well for the "best and brightest"
claim.


I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't dispute that. It's too bad that their patriotism is
being squandered by a neocon fascist administration, though, eh? And
that the institution they serve - the military - is so corrupt and
self-serving. As I have stated any number of times, I have respect for
individual soliders, but not much for "the military" as an institution.


More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

Indeed...which is why I have so much respect for classroom teachers,
firemen, nurses, case workers, religious workers who truly help the poor
and the sick, and soldiers involved in genuine, multi-national
peacekeeping efforts that stop wars.

What a weasel. Your "respect for classroom teachers" can be seen in
the many negative comments you've made about teachers.

Bull. I've made negative comments about *you* as a teacher.

I stand corrected. You*have* made negative comments about me as a
teacher (never having seen me in the classroom, which again shows your
profound lack of knowledge). However, the 'bull' part is a lie. You
have denigrated the teaching profession. Now weasel out of it.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


Only if you construe a post a made in context to you as a general
comment, which it was not.

Do you need special shoes to do the "Weasel Dance" ?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100966453.d8OC8Enq54+tnsZMSe4LmQ@teranews...

I have visited West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy and
the sub training facility at Groton. Some years ago, I actually did look
over descriptions of some of the course material at Annapolis and the
c.v.'s of some of the faculty. I'm sure the engineering course material
is fairly rigorous, though it is more "trade-oriented" and did not look
up to MIT or CalTech standards. I mean, if your goal is to be an
aeronautical engineer, you're going to get better training at MIT or
CalTech or at any of a large number of other engineering schools. I
thought the faculty academic credentials no better than what is found at
a typical smaller four year public university. The military academies
turn out military officers with an education, not highly educated
military officers. But that is their purpose, eh?


--

Holy molly, grandma, put on your high boots.

Harry Krause, admitted graduate in the humanities with a degree in English
is hereby qualified to critique the engineering curriculum of not only West
Point, but also that of the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy and
compare it to that of MIT and CalTech.

The above paragraph is a classic.

You missed your calling Harry.

Eisboch

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...

I had a similar experience, only I was offered an Lead
Instructor/Trainer slot which are highly prized in the Corps and I
took advantage of it. I reenlisted for two years, taught one week in
three and made arrangements for that week with the professors where I
was attending. When I finished my six years, I was a year and a half
shy of graduation as a General Engineer and when they credited my
advanced math/science placement, I had to do one semester in
humanities and a half semester electives - which in my case was more
math. :) I even got to play a little college baseball (taxi squad
unfortunately).

Even with two combat tours, I wouldn't trade the experience for
anything.

And with that, I shall remove myself from this discussion permanently.

Peace. Out.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown




Yep. Me too. Any further effort is a total waste of time.

Eisboch

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:38:32 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
.. .

I had a similar experience, only I was offered an Lead
Instructor/Trainer slot which are highly prized in the Corps and I
took advantage of it. I reenlisted for two years, taught one week in
three and made arrangements for that week with the professors where I
was attending. When I finished my six years, I was a year and a half
shy of graduation as a General Engineer and when they credited my
advanced math/science placement, I had to do one semester in
humanities and a half semester electives - which in my case was more
math. :) I even got to play a little college baseball (taxi squad
unfortunately).

Even with two combat tours, I wouldn't trade the experience for
anything.

And with that, I shall remove myself from this discussion permanently.

Peace. Out.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown




Yep. Me too. Any further effort is a total waste of time.

Eisboch


Me three.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.

Don White wrote in message
...

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.




Now, there's an idea. Ever think of a political career Don?

I like it.

Eisboch

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:19:38 +0000, Eisboch wrote:


Don White wrote in message
...

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines.
I'd bet peace would breakout overnight.




Now, there's an idea. Ever think of a political career Don?

I like it.


I remember an old 70s vintage anti-war commercial. Two older gentlemen
take of their suit jackets and proceed to have a rather silly fist fight.
The question was asked, "What if the men who started wars actually had to
fight them?". It must have made some point, as I still remember it today.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:19:38 GMT, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Don White wrote in message
...

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.

Now, there's an idea. Ever think of a political career Don?

I like it.

I've often thought that dueling between leaders would be the correct
method.

Fifty paces, shoot until first blood.

What could be simpler? :)

Later,

Tom

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100966453.d8OC8Enq54+tnsZMSe4LmQ@teranews...

I have visited West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy and
the sub training facility at Groton. Some years ago, I actually did look
over descriptions of some of the course material at Annapolis and the
c.v.'s of some of the faculty. I'm sure the engineering course material
is fairly rigorous, though it is more "trade-oriented" and did not look
up to MIT or CalTech standards. I mean, if your goal is to be an
aeronautical engineer, you're going to get better training at MIT or
CalTech or at any of a large number of other engineering schools. I
thought the faculty academic credentials no better than what is found at
a typical smaller four year public university. The military academies
turn out military officers with an education, not highly educated
military officers. But that is their purpose, eh?


--


Holy molly, grandma, put on your high boots.

Harry Krause, admitted graduate in the humanities with a degree in English
is hereby qualified to critique the engineering curriculum of not only West
Point, but also that of the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy and
compare it to that of MIT and CalTech.

The above paragraph is a classic.

You missed your calling Harry.

Eisboch





No he didn't; he's a professional liar for the loony left.

K