"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:uaRnd.944403$Gx4.247321@bgtnsc04-

Now, there's an idea. Ever think of a political career Don?

I like it.

Eisboch

I imagine if anyone of influence tried to push this idea, he'd be
'sanitized' pretty quickly.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:19:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.




I'd send them and their children out there on the front lines,
improperly trained, armed and equipped. Just like the soldiers we're
sending out there today.

The question, "What's your idea, Harry?" had to do with defending the
country from the terrorist driven van with a nuke inside. No front
lines there, Harry. You've disparaged the DOD and the DHS, saying
they're incapable, so I assume you know something they don't.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:15:44 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.


No front lines in Harry's scenario.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:07:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:36:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:21:47 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
...


I'd love to have Harry look my oldest son in the eye and tell him just
how lame he is. Or my oldest daughter who was in the Navy.

I like Harry, but sometimes, he just jumps and doesn't look and it
sours his relations with people who would be friendly.

Live long and prosper,

Tom


I don't dislike Harry. I dislike or disagree with some of his statements and
assertions.
Sadly though, the statement in question here was not a "jump" on his part.
He truly believes what he says and has made similar comments often over the
years. It is obviously a result of his own background, education and
experience and is consistent with his basic political views.

You're jumping from my generalizations to specific individuals. My point
is this: generally speaking, our brightest 18-24 year olds do not enlist
in the military. Our brightest youngsters in that age category head for
college. If you have some legitimate statistics that dispute my posit,
I'll be glad to look at them. I'm NOT saying that no bright kids head
for the military, because certainly some do. But the brightest kids have
better options.

I recently read a couple of articles that indicated the Army was
planning on lowering the mental ability standards in its "admission
tests" to accommodate the kinds of enlistees it was getting these days.
If that is the case, it does not bode well for the "best and brightest"
claim.


I am not offended because my son is currently in the military either. What
Harry doesn't seem to understand is that many, including both my sons and
frankly myself served because we felt an obligation to do so, driven by
personal reasons that include old fashioned patriotism.

Oh, sure. I wouldn't dispute that. It's too bad that their patriotism is
being squandered by a neocon fascist administration, though, eh? And
that the institution they serve - the military - is so corrupt and
self-serving. As I have stated any number of times, I have respect for
individual soliders, but not much for "the military" as an institution.


More importantly,
the experience of giving something of importance which is greater than one's
own self interests is an important lesson that serves one well in life in my
opinion.

Indeed...which is why I have so much respect for classroom teachers,
firemen, nurses, case workers, religious workers who truly help the poor
and the sick, and soldiers involved in genuine, multi-national
peacekeeping efforts that stop wars.

What a weasel. Your "respect for classroom teachers" can be seen in
the many negative comments you've made about teachers.

Bull. I've made negative comments about *you* as a teacher.

I stand corrected. You*have* made negative comments about me as a
teacher (never having seen me in the classroom, which again shows your
profound lack of knowledge). However, the 'bull' part is a lie. You
have denigrated the teaching profession. Now weasel out of it.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


Only if you construe a post a made in context to you as a general
comment, which it was not.

Do you need special shoes to do the "Weasel Dance" ?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


sorry...some of us see black, white, gray, and a multitude of other
colors. you don't

But I love watching weasels dance. Are those taps I hear on your
shoes?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:17:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100966453.d8OC8Enq54+tnsZMSe4LmQ@teranews...

I have visited West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy and
the sub training facility at Groton. Some years ago, I actually did look
over descriptions of some of the course material at Annapolis and the
c.v.'s of some of the faculty. I'm sure the engineering course material
is fairly rigorous, though it is more "trade-oriented" and did not look
up to MIT or CalTech standards. I mean, if your goal is to be an
aeronautical engineer, you're going to get better training at MIT or
CalTech or at any of a large number of other engineering schools. I
thought the faculty academic credentials no better than what is found at
a typical smaller four year public university. The military academies
turn out military officers with an education, not highly educated
military officers. But that is their purpose, eh?


--

Holy molly, grandma, put on your high boots.

Harry Krause, admitted graduate in the humanities with a degree in English
is hereby qualified to critique the engineering curriculum of not only West
Point, but also that of the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy and
compare it to that of MIT and CalTech.

The above paragraph is a classic.

You missed your calling Harry.

Eisboch




There have been many evaluations of the rigors of academics at various
colleges and universities where where doctorates in science and
engineering may be earned. The service academies do not rank on those
lists at all because they don't offer doctorates in pure math, science
and engineering. The military academies compete in the second tier of
institutions.

We've gone from, "I actually did look over descriptions of..." to
"There have been many evaluations of..."

Is that one of the steps in the "Weaselly Shuffle"?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:22:23 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:19:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.




I'd send them and their children out there on the front lines,
improperly trained, armed and equipped. Just like the soldiers we're
sending out there today.

The question, "What's your idea, Harry?"


For starters, we should send useless old warmongerers like you to the
front...

There's no 'front' in your scenario, Harry. The question stands. With
all your wisdom, and your disdain for DOD and DHS, you must have some
spectacular answers. What are they?

Your cute one-liners don't address the question, they just show more
of the 'Weasel Shuffle'

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:41:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:17:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in message
news:1100966453.d8OC8Enq54+tnsZMSe4LmQ@teranews...

I have visited West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy and
the sub training facility at Groton. Some years ago, I actually did look
over descriptions of some of the course material at Annapolis and the
c.v.'s of some of the faculty. I'm sure the engineering course material
is fairly rigorous, though it is more "trade-oriented" and did not look
up to MIT or CalTech standards. I mean, if your goal is to be an
aeronautical engineer, you're going to get better training at MIT or
CalTech or at any of a large number of other engineering schools. I
thought the faculty academic credentials no better than what is found at
a typical smaller four year public university. The military academies
turn out military officers with an education, not highly educated
military officers. But that is their purpose, eh?


--

Holy molly, grandma, put on your high boots.

Harry Krause, admitted graduate in the humanities with a degree in English
is hereby qualified to critique the engineering curriculum of not only West
Point, but also that of the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy and
compare it to that of MIT and CalTech.

The above paragraph is a classic.

You missed your calling Harry.

Eisboch




There have been many evaluations of the rigors of academics at various
colleges and universities where where doctorates in science and
engineering may be earned. The service academies do not rank on those
lists at all because they don't offer doctorates in pure math, science
and engineering. The military academies compete in the second tier of
institutions.

We've gone from, "I actually did look over descriptions of..." to
"There have been many evaluations of..."

Is that one of the steps in the "Weaselly Shuffle"?



We haven't gone from...because they're not mutually exclusive...one can
look over course descriptions, bios of faculty members *and* read third
party evaluations.

The purpose of the military academies is to provide a cadre of military
officers, not to provide a cadre of great or even independent thinkers.

But as a "career military" guy, you would only be familiar with binary
thinking, right, Herring? Isn't that the sort of thinking that served us
so well in your war in Vietnan and insists that we spend hundreds of
billions of dollars on threats that do not exist?

Now we've gone from;
"I actually did look over descriptions of..."
to
"There have been many evaluations of..."
to
"...you would only be familiar with binary thinking..."

You've weaselled your way to a personal attack.

Did you know, Harry, that the United States Military Academy ranks
fourth among the nation's colleges and universities in number of
Rhodes Scholars with 70? From whence came your education, Harry? Is
your university right up there in the three leaders? Or is it now your
contention that Rhodes Scholars can't think?

Go here, Harry,
http://www.usma.edu/bicentennial/history/NotableGrads.asp and tell
us that *none* of these people could think independently or greatly.

Show us the "Weasel Shuffle." While you're getting your dance act
together, note that I didn't even check graduates from the Navy or Air
Force Academies.


John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Don,

The reaction from retired military officers may surprise you. Those I know
would jump at the chance to help our young soldiers continue to do a
superior job in combat areas. FYI, there are no "front lines" to which to
send anyone. All soldiers serving in the area are in harms way. As ever,
the Infantry troops are the ones most exposed to small arms fire day to day.
Military Police and Transportation soldiers also take considerable risks
each day.

Warmongering politicians???? Do you mean those elected leaders who are
willing to use the considerable force and power of our very expensive
military forces for other than ceremonial duties?

Civilian contractors are simply answering the demand of our military forces
for support unavailable from within the force. Due to smart guys like our
current Secy of Defense our military forces no longer have the authorized
strength levels required to perform the mission without contractor support.

Ever read anything?

Butch
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:41:48 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

Don,

The reaction from retired military officers may surprise you. Those I know
would jump at the chance to help our young soldiers continue to do a
superior job in combat areas. FYI, there are no "front lines" to which to
send anyone. All soldiers serving in the area are in harms way. As ever,
the Infantry troops are the ones most exposed to small arms fire day to day.
Military Police and Transportation soldiers also take considerable risks
each day.

Warmongering politicians???? Do you mean those elected leaders who are
willing to use the considerable force and power of our very expensive
military forces for other than ceremonial duties?

Civilian contractors are simply answering the demand of our military forces
for support unavailable from within the force. Due to smart guys like our
current Secy of Defense our military forces no longer have the authorized
strength levels required to perform the mission without contractor support.

Ever read anything?

Butch
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Don't know about Harry...but I'd put all the warmongering politicians,
retired military officers and defense contractors on the front lines. I'd
bet peace would breakout overnight.

Retired Regular Army officers can be recalled to active duty at any
time. So far that hasn't happened. If it did, I'd jump at the chance.
Hell, the pay isn't bad. Although I've got to admit, the fishing
doesn't appear to be all that great!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:17:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:41:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Did you know, Harry, that the United States Military Academy ranks
fourth among the nation's colleges and universities in number of
Rhodes Scholars with 70? From whence came your education, Harry? Is
your university right up there in the three leaders? Or is it now your
contention that Rhodes Scholars can't think?



Mr. Black or White strikes again, eh? I never claimed that the military
was devoid of smart people, just that most smart people had nothing to
do with being in the military.

Did you know that more than 70 students, fellows or faculty members at
the University of Chicago were Nobel laureates? I can think of one
affiliated with a US military academy. At one of my alma maters, there
have been more than 50 Nobel laureates. And a very very high number of
Rhodes scholars.

You're such a lamer, Herring. You want so very badly for us to consider
military personnel to be among our brightest, and to somehow justify
your life. But it isn't going to work.


I've got to admit, Harry, you can dance the Weasel Shuffle with the
best of them!

Do I care about the Nobel Laureates from U. of Chicago? No. The
subject was the inability of those in the military to think. Remember?

Now, you've resorted to name calling twice in this short little
discussion. You should have better manners.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:17:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:41:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Did you know, Harry, that the United States Military Academy ranks
fourth among the nation's colleges and universities in number of
Rhodes Scholars with 70? From whence came your education, Harry? Is
your university right up there in the three leaders? Or is it now your
contention that Rhodes Scholars can't think?



Mr. Black or White strikes again, eh? I never claimed that the military
was devoid of smart people, just that most smart people had nothing to
do with being in the military.

Did you know that more than 70 students, fellows or faculty members at
the University of Chicago were Nobel laureates? I can think of one
affiliated with a US military academy. At one of my alma maters, there
have been more than 50 Nobel laureates. And a very very high number of
Rhodes scholars.

You're such a lamer, Herring. You want so very badly for us to consider
military personnel to be among our brightest, and to somehow justify
your life. But it isn't going to work.


I've got to admit, Harry, you can dance the Weasel Shuffle with the
best of them!

Do I care about the Nobel Laureates from U. of Chicago? No. The
subject was the inability of those in the military to think. Remember?

Now, you've resorted to name calling twice in this short little
discussion. You should have better manners.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

He does not know the meaning of manners. He is a spiteful old man who
continuously lies and makes up stories about his life. He has also not
gotten over the fact that his guy lost the election....and lost bad.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:16:26 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:

Retired Regular Army officers can be recalled to active duty at any
time. So far that hasn't happened. If it did, I'd jump at the chance.
Hell, the pay isn't bad. Although I've got to admit, the fishing
doesn't appear to be all that great!

John H


If you think it would help, I'd be glad to write letters and get others
to do so on your behalf and for the other warmongering old gasbags.
Perhaps we can work out an exchange program...you go and someone who
might be useful to society gets to come back...

It could be a movement...send all the old warmongerers out on
patrols...and in unarmoed vehicles...

Who knows? Maybe you've got a great idea there. Start sending your
letters!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:46:55 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:17:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:41:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Did you know, Harry, that the United States Military Academy ranks
fourth among the nation's colleges and universities in number of
Rhodes Scholars with 70? From whence came your education, Harry? Is
your university right up there in the three leaders? Or is it now your
contention that Rhodes Scholars can't think?



Mr. Black or White strikes again, eh? I never claimed that the military
was devoid of smart people, just that most smart people had nothing to
do with being in the military.

Did you know that more than 70 students, fellows or faculty members at
the University of Chicago were Nobel laureates? I can think of one
affiliated with a US military academy. At one of my alma maters, there
have been more than 50 Nobel laureates. And a very very high number of
Rhodes scholars.

You're such a lamer, Herring. You want so very badly for us to consider
military personnel to be among our brightest, and to somehow justify
your life. But it isn't going to work.


I've got to admit, Harry, you can dance the Weasel Shuffle with the
best of them!

Do I care about the Nobel Laureates from U. of Chicago? No. The
subject was the inability of those in the military to think. Remember?

Now, you've resorted to name calling twice in this short little
discussion. You should have better manners.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

He does not know the meaning of manners. He is a spiteful old man who
continuously lies and makes up stories about his life. He has also not
gotten over the fact that his guy lost the election....and lost bad.


You may be correct. I keep trying to give him the benefit of doubt.
But, the doubts are piling up. He is a pretty good dancer though.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!