The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach anyone
how to operate a boat.


Well, FWIW it seems that way to me, too, but this begs the question "how
does anybody ever learn to operate a boat then?"


Gould 0738 wrote:
I very much agree.

However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to know
them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat.

No course is ever going to instill a basic familiarity with the laws of
physics and some common sense.


When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign was
and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the road.

That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't enough to
turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few disasters
caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived
"right" to boat in ignorance.

The main thing these courses need to drive into the skulls of newbie
boaters is

1- It's easier to screw up than you think

2- if you screw up, it will probably hurt. A lot.

2- if you hurt somebody else or damage their boat, they get to break all
your leg & ankle bones. Slowly. And it will definitely hurt. A lot.

It's not quite down to the one sentence minimum, but it covers all the
bases nicely.

Fair Skies
Doug King

Ed C wrote:
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?

Jeese louise I'd say yes:-)

Here downunder we've had boat drivers licenses in most states almost
forever.

It varies from state to state, some only for boats "capable" of
exceeding 10 kts, some only for boats over 10HP & some for all "powered
craft" Also in some you need a special exam & license to drive a jetski
(mongrel things:-)).

The test requirements vary from state to state also, most have a
computerised theory test, which is fairly OK & means people have the
basics & at least some understanding of various lights (fishing boats
with nets, dredges, big ships right of way in designated channels etc),
colours & channel marking systems, plus anchoring & mooring etc, also it
stresses safety gear compliance. At least one state you have to also sit
a boat test after the theory test i.e. they have licensed professional
testers, you meet them where ever, they check the boat then go for a run
asking certain handling tests be achieved, again it's not perfect but
better than nothing at all that lets just about any dopey nuff nuff go &
kill his/her family or worse mine.

I have to admit the govt does milk it for funds, but they claim this
helps defray police & rescue costs, maybe but .......

The very few places that were late getting licenses found people just
paid the fines & didn't care, but when they might lose their license to
operate then they take notice, also & this is great I say:-) they have a
crossover, get done on the breathalyser in the boat & you lose both car
& boat licenses for the specified time.

K


"Gordon" wrote in message
...

Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

Oregon phased one end some years ago requiring at least a rudimentary
knowledge of Colregs. Each state that has this varies in it's requirements
and none require a demonstration of ability.

In the USA the ability to drive or operate or sail a boat rests largely with
the individual. For most that means buy the boat and tear the tab off the
Budweiser at one end of the spectrum to the barely adequate ASA
certification. The ASA cert's main and only purpose purports to be an
assurance of basic skills prior to renting out (charter is the fancy term) a
boat. In practice it's main reason for existence is to make money as it's
required even of those who hold real licenses (100 ton and up). At that
point it becomes and unecessary and expensive review of minimal skills. For
most though it's the only training they will ever receive so it falls in the
better than nothing but not by much category.

The nation wide licensing begins with the 100 ton examination which
strangely enough requires no practical examination. One only has to own a
boat and then lists "as owner" days of sea time for themselves as "crew".
However most who take the exam and apply for the license have invested
enough time, money, and energy they 'usually' have a working practical
knowledge of some sort. There ends the US system which may fairly be
described for the vast majority on the water as Buy Boat, Buy GPS, Go
Boating.

Counterpoint is the British system which if far and away superior. The entry
level is a written and practical examination called Competent Crew and it
works up to the Offshore Skippers Certification.

Licensing does not stop all accidents but the lack of any real licensing or
examination of ability certainly contributes to the amount of accidents,
injuries, drownings, and deaths on the water.

Washington is making a needed step in the right direction. The problem is
it's not the right Washington for a nationwide problem.

M.



"Ed C" wrote in message news:ikxmd.2939$CK.868@twister
..nyroc.rr.com...
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the
pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

Gould,
The insurance companies agree with you. They have found those who take the
safety courses are less likely to have an accident.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach
anyone
how to operate a boat.

I very much agree.

However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to
know
them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat.

When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign
was
and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the
road.

That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't
enough to
turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few
disasters
caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived
"right" to boat in ignorance.

DSK,
You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat.
Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would
not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; )


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
The real problem with all of these courses is they don't really teach
anyone
how to operate a boat.


Well, FWIW it seems that way to me, too, but this begs the question "how
does anybody ever learn to operate a boat then?"


Gould 0738 wrote:
I very much agree.

However, there are a few things that are so fundamental that one needs to
know
them before even attempting to learn to operate a boat.

No course is ever going to instill a basic familiarity with the laws of
physics and some common sense.


When you learned to drive a car, odds are you understood what a Stop sign
was
and what red, yellow, and green traffic signals meant before you hit the
road.

That's sort of how I view these boater education courses. They aren't
enough to
turn a rookie into any sort of a boater, but they might prevent a few
disasters
caused by the absolutely and totally clueless exercising their perceived
"right" to boat in ignorance.

The main thing these courses need to drive into the skulls of newbie
boaters is

1- It's easier to screw up than you think

2- if you screw up, it will probably hurt. A lot.

2- if you hurt somebody else or damage their boat, they get to break all
your leg & ankle bones. Slowly. And it will definitely hurt. A lot.

It's not quite down to the one sentence minimum, but it covers all the
bases nicely.

Fair Skies
Doug King

No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to
have an accident.


"Ed C" wrote in message
...
Did a license ever stop an accident on the road?


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Washington state wants to institute a revamped law to require boating
drivers licenses. To those in states who have such laws, what are the
pros
and cons of your system and does it prevent accidents etc or is it just
another red tape gizmo to collect money for the state?
Thanks in advance
Gordon

DSK,
You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat.
Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would
not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; )

Conservatives don't know how to operate a boat, either. They just hire an
illegal immigrant at well below minimum wage to do it for them. Many of the
II's have some bluewater boating experience, having floated in on makeshift
rafts, etc. :-)

Gould,
I am glad you highlighted the fact that conservatives who own a boat are
less likely to have an accident. We need to either make it illegal for
liberals to operate a boat, or at the very least, charge them substantially
more for insurance. After all, why should conservatives have to subsidize
your hobbies. ; )



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
DSK,
You have to be born with an innate ability to operate a boat.
Most liberals do not have that ability. I would endorse a law that would
not allow any registered Democrats to operate a boat. ; )

Conservatives don't know how to operate a boat, either. They just hire an
illegal immigrant at well below minimum wage to do it for them. Many of
the
II's have some bluewater boating experience, having floated in on
makeshift
rafts, etc. :-)

I have received a 10% allowance for my car and my boating safety courses.

I have to renew my defensive driving course every 3 yrs, but have received
the 10% discount for the last 17 yrs, I have received a 10% discount for a
course I took the last 1t yrs ago.

..
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:28:38 GMT, "Dr. Dr. Smithers"
wrote:

No, but those who have taken defensive driving courses are less likely to
have an accident.



I am a proponent of boater safety courses, however, since taking part
in boater safety courses is an elective decision, you haven't
established whether this phenomenon is cause or effect.

I think it is most likely that those interested in boating safety
pursue the courses out of the initiative of self improvement. They
would have been safe, anyway.

Given the embarrassingly small percentage of discount afforded by the
insurance companies for boating safety course completers... I'd think
that few to none of those people holding boating safety and
navigational rules/information in low esteem would be induced to take
courses for selfish monetary reasons. They'd probably be unsafe,
anyway. There is a lot of difference between taking a course and
altering someone's behavior.

If I were an insurance company, I'd think of some pricing scheme to
induce boaters to take these boating safety courses (even the
disinterested ones), that is, if I truly felt that they would improve
safety and my bottom line.

Looking at the insurance companies complacent attitude toward this....
I'd conclude that it isn't all that strong a link to them.....
--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/
Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where
Southport,NC is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

"Ryk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:42 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
It's a friggin 20 buck tax grab with a ridiculous exam that proves
nothing
regarding operator competency!

You now need one despite the fact you might have a Master/Minor Waters
certification.

Actually, the regulations require only that one carry proof of
competency on board and recognize e.g. a CPS diploma as adequate proof
of competency in lieu of a license.

Better re-read that..... once fully implemented a Boat operator's Cert will
be mandatory and required.

CM