hi all. been looking at a few boats and ran across a 30 foot hinterhoeller
nonsuch. have to say, its a strange looking old gal, but very roomy inside
and appears to be pretty well built. fairly heavy and the lwl is almost as
long as loa. very nice boat, at least the one i looked at.

ok, how would this thing sail upwind with no jib?? will the rig hold up with
a free standing mast and that strange looking boom?? would appreciate any
info on these vessels.

also saw a freedom 32. also a very nice boat. very roomy inside and also
appears to be well built. this one has a small jib. dont know enough about
them to know if all of em do or not. would also appreciate any input on
these. the one i looked at is new on the market and is a one owner boat that
looks well kept.

right now im leaning towards the nonsuch, but need to do a little more
research on both boats. not in any real hurry, but would like to find
something before the end of this coming summer. only sailing i have done is
on lake mead in a 23 foot centerboard sloop. probably never should have
started, now all i want to do is take a 6 month vacation and go sailing!!

ive been looking for a 30 to 35 footer for a while now. these 2 have the
most room of any of them ive seen except for a 32 foot hunter that also has
a free standing mast. that was a nice boat inside too, but have not read
very many things about a hunter that were good.

will be single handling most of the time. coastal on the west coast. maybe
offshore for short trips. these 2 boats look like a piece of cake to
shorthand. need some experienced advise here folks. any input pro or con
will be much appreciated. thanks. regards, j.d.

"jds" wrote...
hi all. been looking at a few boats and ran across a 30 foot hinterhoeller
nonsuch. have to say, its a strange looking old gal, but very roomy inside
and appears to be pretty well built. fairly heavy and the lwl is almost as
long as loa. very nice boat, at least the one i looked at.

Start with the Nonsuch Association at http://www.nonsuch.org/.

The Nonsuch has a great reputation for performance and handling. I considered
them when I was in that market in the 80s, along with the Herreshoff
cat-ketches. Turns out my eyes were bigger than my budget, so I never got
there. OTOH, I currently have a SeaPearl 21 cat-ketch...


ok, how would this thing sail upwind with no jib?? will the rig hold up with
a free standing mast and that strange looking boom?? would appreciate any
info on these vessels.

Though sloops tend to sail closer to the wind than other rigs, a lot depends on
the individual boat/class. You can expect that the Nonsuch will not sail as
close to the wind as a J-24, but it will likely perform well enough upwind for
most purposes. Also, it depends on whether you are inherently more likely to
slog your way upwind, or light off the "iron jenny"...

Frestanding masts are just fine, as long as they are designed and built
properly. It turns out you may miss the shrouds occasionally when working on
the foredeck, especially if you now have a boat where you are used to grabbing
them. Good lifelines and a harness would be in order for any serious offshore
work.

The larger diameter of a freestanding aluminum mast may have weight and airflow
penalties compared with a stayed mast, but the tradeoff is in simplicity of
[re]rigging and handling. If you sail short-handed, and are not an all-out,
speed-at-any-cost racer, you may find you like it.

The wishbone boom makes reefing and dousing the sail easy. Again, you just have
to get used to the idea it's "different" from most boats, not necessarily
"better" or "worse."


also saw a freedom 32. also a very nice boat. very roomy inside and also
appears to be well built. this one has a small jib. dont know enough about
them to know if all of em do or not. would also appreciate any input on
these. the one i looked at is new on the market and is a one owner boat that
looks well kept.

Freedom is also a well-respected boat line, with a dedicated following.

right now im leaning towards the nonsuch, but need to do a little more
research on both boats. not in any real hurry, but would like to find
something before the end of this coming summer. only sailing i have done is
on lake mead in a 23 foot centerboard sloop. probably never should have
started, now all i want to do is take a 6 month vacation and go sailing!!

Compared with your 23' C/B boat, both the Nonsuch and the Freedom will likely
perform VERY well. What they lack in pointing ability, they will make up for in
comfort and handling ease.


ive been looking for a 30 to 35 footer for a while now. these 2 have the
most room of any of them ive seen except for a 32 foot hunter that also has
a free standing mast. that was a nice boat inside too, but have not read
very many things about a hunter that were good.

I looked at that Hunter 32 a couple times, too. I'd go for the Nonsuch or
Freedom, based on reputation and likely resale value.


will be single handling most of the time. coastal on the west coast. maybe
offshore for short trips. these 2 boats look like a piece of cake to
shorthand. need some experienced advise here folks. any input pro or con
will be much appreciated. thanks. regards, j.d.

Look at the mfgrs' sites, owners' e-mail lists, etc. Practical Sailor has
reviewed both; go to www.practical-sailor.com to get them. I think you'll find
they're very positive.

thanks a lot for the input gentlemen. very informative. sounds like either
one would suit my needs.

Jeff: how was yours in open water?? any problems with things holding
together?? places to look for leaks??, ports etc. thanks again for the info
and the excellent links. best regards, j.d.

"jds" wrote in message news:hhojd.119314$hj.27282@fed1read07...
thanks a lot for the input gentlemen. very informative. sounds like either
one would suit my needs.

Jeff: how was yours in open water??

You shouldn't confuse a Nonsuch with a true bluewater boat. For a variety of reasons,
this is not a good choice for a real passage. However, it is surprising well behaved
in almost anything you're likely to encounter in coastal cruising. We sailed Downeast
Maine to Buzzard's Bay, including the Cape Ann to Mt Desert "offshore" route a number
of times, and always had full confidence in its abilities.

Its weaknesses: with the full bow it pounds in a nasty chop - like a lot of boats.
Its large sail *must* be reefed early. It can easily be driven to hull speed in 20
knots with reduced sail, so why carry more? If overpowered, the boat would be a
handful, though the powerful rudder will handle her. Dead downwind in heavy stuff you
have to be careful not to drag the boom. We would haul the topping lift to raise the
boom and add twist to prevent accidental gybes. Needless to say, gybes were always an
adventure in stronger wind - we often did a "chicken gybe!"

If you reduce sail in timely manner (1st reef @ 18 knts) you shouldn't have a problem.
Three times we got caught in 40+ with a single reef, and were always able to forge on.

The only time I ever wondered if we had made serious mistake was coming out of the
Cape Cod Canal and hitting 6 to 8 foot square waves (generating by a 25 knot SW wind
against the 4 knot current) on the nose. We had little choice but to pound against
them making no progress through the water, until the current pulled us clear. Our
small daughter slept through it in the forward bunk, taking air on each wave!

The other problem with the boat is that the mast forward plus the boom create a fair
amount of windage. Its not a problem underway, but manuevering under power in marinas
was tense on puffy days, and in reverse we often had little control. And at anchor
the boat will dance around a lot - we often used a riding sail. Our boat was under
propped - in retrospect I wish I had studied that issue more.



any problems with things holding
together??

Its a pretty solid boat, we never had any structural problem. Make sure she's
surveyed by someone who knows the the boat, and understands cored construction and
unusual rigs.


places to look for leaks??, ports etc.

Just the usual. All the fittings are first class. Since they've now been out of
construction for ten years (other than a handful of custom jobs) you're likely to be
looking at a 20 year old boat. Look on nonsuch.org to see what issues have come up.
If you're in New England, you should start your search at Eastland Yachts.
http://www.eastlandyachts.com/

thanks again for the info
and the excellent links. best regards, j.d.

Good Luck, and keep us informed!