On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Were you a mass media major in college? ;-) There's at least 3 songs
and three different musicals in there somewhere......


Dave

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:58:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



You're so damned poetic, I'll bet all the ladies just cover you in kisses.

Family only - other ladies of my aquaintance, friends of my wife and
daughters, think I'm weird.

I don't discourage that viewpoint either. :)

"weird" is relative based on the views of the current majority. Maybe
you're the sane one and they're weird.....


Dave

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:26:39 -0500, Dave Hall
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Were you a mass media major in college? ;-) There's at least 3 songs
and three different musicals in there somewhere......

General engineering major, minor in mathematics which eventually
became a totally useless PhD appendage.

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:51:11 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:13:58 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:



Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

In the Human Development Index, Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada,
Netherlands, Belgium and Iceland were higher than us. Perhaps, you could
state what freedoms they are lacking.

Oh I don't know........ Could I have a $100,000 aft cabin cruiser and
run it for a season without taking out a mortgage to fill the fuel
tanks on the expected salaries in those respective places?

Could I buy a bunch of firearms and shoot them?

Could I opt out of forced government programs (and the high tax rate
to pay for them), and elect to "go it alone" with my own choices?

Could I keep my classic 60's muscle car, my ultralight airplane, my
dirt bike, snowmobile, jetski, and weed wacker without being shunned
for being out of touch with the environment and taxed out of my mind
as a result?


" The UN Human Development Index (HDI) measures poverty, literacy,
education, life expectancy, and other factors. It is a standard means of
measuring well-being, especially child welfare."

It does not measure any sort of satisfaction or recreational factors
though.




http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...elopment-Index


But, you are right about achieving wealth, the United States mean wealth
is the highest of any country, unfortunately it's median wealth is much
lower.

Yea, ain't it cool? The rewards for hard work here are hard to
beat.....

Dave

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:28:28 -0500, Dave Hall
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:58:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



You're so damned poetic, I'll bet all the ladies just cover you in kisses.

Family only - other ladies of my aquaintance, friends of my wife and
daughters, think I'm weird.

I don't discourage that viewpoint either. :)

"weird" is relative based on the views of the current majority. Maybe
you're the sane one and they're weird.....

On Usenet, I'm really a dog. :)

Live long and prosper,

Tom

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:51:11 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:13:58 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:



Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

In the Human Development Index, Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada,
Netherlands, Belgium and Iceland were higher than us. Perhaps, you could
state what freedoms they are lacking.

Oh I don't know........ Could I have a $100,000 aft cabin cruiser and
run it for a season without taking out a mortgage to fill the fuel
tanks on the expected salaries in those respective places?

Could I buy a bunch of firearms and shoot them?

Could I opt out of forced government programs (and the high tax rate
to pay for them), and elect to "go it alone" with my own choices?

Could I keep my classic 60's muscle car, my ultralight airplane, my
dirt bike, snowmobile, jetski, and weed wacker without being shunned
for being out of touch with the environment and taxed out of my mind
as a result?


" The UN Human Development Index (HDI) measures poverty, literacy,
education, life expectancy, and other factors. It is a standard means of
measuring well-being, especially child welfare."

It does not measure any sort of satisfaction or recreational factors
though.

Using anything from the UN as a source automatically disqualifies it.






http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...elopment-Index


But, you are right about achieving wealth, the United States mean wealth
is the highest of any country, unfortunately it's median wealth is much
lower.

Yea, ain't it cool? The rewards for hard work here are hard to
beat.....

Dave

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:23:52 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:29:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:

Define the good life.

Being able to make something of myself through hard work and
dedication, and then enjoying the results of those gains through a
lifestyle that is entirely of my own choosing.

Dave

....as long as that lifestyle doesn't involve pot, homosexuality, or a
religion other than Christianity. If it does, better move to Canada!

Lloyd

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:26:39 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Were you a mass media major in college? ;-) There's at least 3 songs
and three different musicals in there somewhere......


...and if he'd said "off to see the Lizard" instead, one of them would
be Jimmy Buffett, and we'd be back to talking about boating!

Lloyd

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:56:30 -0800, Lloyd Sumpter
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:26:39 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Were you a mass media major in college? ;-) There's at least 3 songs
and three different musicals in there somewhere......

...and if he'd said "off to see the Lizard" instead, one of them would
be Jimmy Buffett, and we'd be back to talking about boating!

The thought occurred to me.

Live long and prosper,

Tom

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:54:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Define the good life.

Being able to make something of myself through hard work and
dedication, and then enjoying the results of those gains through a
lifestyle that is entirely of my own choosing.

Dave



Gee, I have a few friends in Norway (I only know about six Norwegians)
who love their jobs and their lifestyle, and got to where they are by
hard work and dedication in a field they chose. There's nothing
particularly "country-centric" about your "good life."

Then again, some people are satisfied with the meager earnings of a
common laborer, and are quite happy living in a one room flat, with
such "luxuries" as running hot water.

So I guess once again, it's all relative.

Dave