Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Dave Hall wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Eisboch wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?


Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

Later,

Tom



So, you're saying that I am nothing but a .... a.... damn Lemming?
Come to think of it, I guess we all are. Pay attention or you will fall
off the cliff.

Eisboch

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:04:50 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Dave Hall wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Eisboch wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?


Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

So, you're saying that I am nothing but a .... a.... damn Lemming?
Come to think of it, I guess we all are. Pay attention or you will fall
off the cliff.

Exactly. But chance would turn you from a lemming to amoeba in a
instant if the wheel spins to that fate.

Oy!!! I have a headache.....

TTFN,

Tom

"Bodies are for hookers and fat people."
Bender - "Futurama"

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

Eisboch


They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

From where?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

Later,

Tom

Yes. I can go to work tomorrow, or I can go fishing tomorrow. That is
a choice.


John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:29:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:05:42 -0500, DSK wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Baloney. This is a statement made out of complete ignorance.

No, it's made from pure fact.


Do a google search on "national standard of living" and see what pops up.

Statistics can be skewed to prop up what the poster wishes to expose.


Hehehe. Gotta love it....no matter the reality, you just bury your head
deeper in the sand.



I still have a better chance of living the "good life" here than in
any other country.

Dave

Define the good life.

Personal attack uncalled for, unless you're losing. Now, from where
come your statistics?

And, do your statistics factor in the illegal immigrants?

Lastly, do your statistics include fishing as part of the good life?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:06:54 -0500, JohnH
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

Yes. I can go to work tomorrow, or I can go fishing tomorrow. That is
a choice.

Perhaps - or not.

Fate will decide.

~~ insert evil laugh here ~~

TTFN,

Tom

"Bodies are for hookers and fat people."
Bender - "Futurama"

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:13:58 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:



Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

In the Human Development Index, Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada,
Netherlands, Belgium and Iceland were higher than us. Perhaps, you could
state what freedoms they are lacking.


" The UN Human Development Index (HDI) measures poverty, literacy,
education, life expectancy, and other factors. It is a standard means of
measuring well-being, especially child welfare."

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...elopment-Index


But, you are right about achieving wealth, the United States mean wealth
is the highest of any country, unfortunately it's median wealth is much
lower.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-United-States

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:13:58 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:



Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

In the Human Development Index, Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada,
Netherlands, Belgium and Iceland were higher than us. Perhaps, you could
state what freedoms they are lacking.


" The UN Human Development Index (HDI) measures poverty, literacy,
education, life expectancy, and other factors. It is a standard means of
measuring well-being, especially child welfare."

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...elopment-Index

That index gets 1/3 of it's weighting from adult literacy and education.
It's possible that the US lags in adult literacy because we have a greater
influx of non-English speaking immigrants than the 7 countries ahead of us.



But, you are right about achieving wealth, the United States mean wealth
is the highest of any country, unfortunately it's median wealth is much
lower.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-United-States

And here is why: "other countries are more ready to sacrifice net wealth in
favour of equality".

We have a guaranteed equality of opportunity...not a guaranteed equality of
wealth.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:29:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:05:42 -0500, DSK wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Baloney. This is a statement made out of complete ignorance.

No, it's made from pure fact.


Do a google search on "national standard of living" and see what pops up.

Statistics can be skewed to prop up what the poster wishes to expose.


Hehehe. Gotta love it....no matter the reality, you just bury your head
deeper in the sand.

One could say that your bias is equally disingenuous.


I still have a better chance of living the "good life" here than in
any other country.

Dave

Define the good life.

Being able to make something of myself through hard work and
dedication, and then enjoying the results of those gains through a
lifestyle that is entirely of my own choosing.

Dave

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

Eisboch


They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Dave


Aren't you against choice?

Not unless that choice results in an act which could be considered
immoral.

Dave