On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:41:19 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:


"John S" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:42:16 -0500, John S wrote:

On 5 Nov 2004 05:08:04 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

The Europeans are wondering how 59,054,087 people can be so dumb. I
personally don't think they ALL were dumb, most are just typical
righties, in that they can't think outside of the box, and must goose
step to the party, right or wrong.


Who in their right mind wants to be like the Europeans? There is and will
always be a big difference. America has values.


Regards
John s

Kerry shot his goose in Ohio and had it cooked there too!

I hereby retract this post for the good of this group. I posted it before
the truce. Now that a truce has been declared and we'll be getting back on
topic and having pleasant conversations, I don't want my previous post to
be
offensive.

My comments are withdrawn!

Who cut off you gonads?


In *this* group it takes gonads *not* to be a name-calling puke!

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:04:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

In most European countries, people have longer life spans, the murder
rate is lower, the crime rate is lower, fewer children die in their
youth, a much smaller percentage of the population dies in prison, there
are far fewer homeless, and so forth and so on, ad infinitum.

We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Europeans have a higher quality of life, and your counter is that there
are more opportunities to become obscenely wealthy here? That's your
rejoinder?

Oh...and we do not have the highest standard of living on the planet.




Because of this, this country attracts all sorts of riff-raff, which
can't cut it in our fast paced reward-for-achievement society, and
they end up in prison or on the streets. Perhaps if we were a bit more
selective on just who we allow to immigrate here, some of those
problems might diminish.

Wow!

There are a lot of Turks, former East Germans, and immigrants from
many other countries living in Germany and the Netherlands who would
disagree with your 'quality of life' idea.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Dave Hall wrote:
We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Baloney. This is a statement made out of complete ignorance.

Do a google search on "national standard of living" and see what pops up.

Bottom line- several industrialized countries have higher standards of
living than the U.S., many have longer average lifespans for their
citizens, and the US is not wealthy by any objective standard... we have
become a debtor nation.

DSK

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:44:59 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:04:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Ihttp://openverse.org/Fishing/critters.html
We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Europeans have a higher quality of life, and your counter is that there
are more opportunities to become obscenely wealthy here? That's your
rejoinder?

Oh...and we do not have the highest standard of living on the planet.




Because of this, this country attracts all sorts of riff-raff, which
can't cut it in our fast paced reward-for-achievement society, and
they end up in prison or on the streets. Perhaps if we were a bit more
selective on just who we allow to immigrate here, some of those
problems might diminish.

Wow!

There are a lot of Turks, former East Germans, and immigrants from
many other countries living in Germany and the Netherlands who would
disagree with your 'quality of life' idea.

John H


Indeed there are, but as I stated, many European countries offer a
higher quality of life than we have. Their residents live longer, they
have safer childbirth, lower infant mortality, better health care, more
vacation time, less homelessness, less crime, far fewer shootings, more
separation of church and state, more job retraining when jobs are
obsoleted, et cetera.

The quality of life in this country has slipped since the 1980s, and
slipped badly. We are not moving forward in the ways that matter.

Do the three million illegal immigrants each year get factored into
our statistics?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:19:28 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:56:42 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On 8 Nov 2004 06:40:26 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

John S wrote in message . ..
On 5 Nov 2004 05:08:04 -0800, atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a (basskisser) wrote:

The Europeans are wondering how 59,054,087 people can be so dumb. I
personally don't think they ALL were dumb, most are just typical
righties, in that they can't think outside of the box, and must goose
step to the party, right or wrong.


Who in their right mind wants to be like the Europeans? There is and will
always be a big difference. America has values.


Regards
John s

What to HELL makes you think that Europeans DON'T have values???

Europeans do have values. They're just wrong.

Who want's socialism? It's a society that breeds mediocrity

Dave


Xenophobic asshole.

In most European countries, people have longer life spans, the murder
rate is lower, the crime rate is lower, fewer children die in their
youth, a much smaller percentage of the population dies in prison, there
are far fewer homeless, and so forth and so on, ad infinitum.

By what matters...society and how it is progressing...most of Europe is
far ahead of the United States.

What happened to the niceness of yesterday? I thought we were going to
have some peace and harmony around here.


John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

I am still trying to hang in there. It is a bit tough at times but I will
continue to give it a go for a while.



Regards
John S

I would rather be boating!

Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

Eisboch

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

Eisboch


They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Dave

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:05:42 -0500, DSK wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
We have greater wealth, greater opportunities, more satisfying
rewards, and the highest standard of living on the planet.

Baloney. This is a statement made out of complete ignorance.

No, it's made from pure fact.


Do a google search on "national standard of living" and see what pops up.

Statistics can be skewed to prop up what the poster wishes to expose.


Bottom line- several industrialized countries have higher standards of
living than the U.S.

List them. And then take those countries and weigh the pros and cons
against the U.S.


, many have longer average lifespans for their
citizens, and the US is not wealthy by any objective standard... we have
become a debtor nation.

Not if taken as an average. Yes, there may be a few countries which
have a slightly better GNP. There may be another handful which have
longer lifespans. There may yet be another which offers better "cradle
to grave" healthcare. But there is no single one of them which
compares to the U.S. on all factors.

I still have a better chance of living the "good life" here than in
any other country.

Dave

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:52:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:12:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:



Quality of life issues typically include lifespan, infant mortality
rate, death in childbirth, availability of decent health care, rate of
homelessness, freedom to worship or not, lack of war, availability of
opportunities, quality of housing, amount of free (non-work) time,
quality of diet, availability of continuing education...those kinds of
things. Most of Europe is doing better on the quality of life issues
than we are.

I had a very good friend and work associate (he unfortunately passed
away a couple of years ago at 50). He and his wife were/are well
educated; he held several degrees including a Phd. in physics. They
were/are well traveled throughout the world and were/are extremely
liberal in their thinking and politics (he more so than his wife). They
both chose and came to the States on permanent work visas and would
disagree with many of your assertions. Although she still owns property
in her native Germany, she has chosen to stay here, primarily for the
quality of life.

They're not my assertions, and most are statistically based.

And most are meaningless if your freedom of choice is curtailed. Which
is why so many people WANT to come here.

Freedom of choice is a big factor in the quality of life. It tends to
cancel out many of the other issues.

Aren't you against choice?

Choice. What choice do any of us really have. Don't the vagaries of
fate predetermine the path we all follow? Aren't we all just dust on
the wind? Smoke on the water? Nowhere men? Climbing every mountain
somewhere over the rainbow singing in the rain as we're off to see the
Wizard?

Do we really, truly have choice faced with a multitude of realities in
which, at any given moment, the tesseract of chance, the wheel of
predetermined fate spins?

Chance.

Hah!!!!

You're so damned poetic, I'll bet all the ladies just cover you in kisses.

Family only - other ladies of my aquaintance, friends of my wife and
daughters, think I'm weird.

I don't discourage that viewpoint either. :)

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653