I just joined, and love discussing boats etc...and unless al these
political posts are related to boats, what are they doing here?

Isn't there a messag board elsewhere where you all can discuss these
things?

And believe me, I'm very interested in, and involved in this election
and politics - but folks, here on this board...let's keep it ON topic!
Boats!

Rob Welling.

Welcome aboard Rob.

The best way to improve the signal to noise ratio is to produce and enhance
some signal.

Got a boating topic you'd care to discuss?

Rob,

The most important thing for you to understand, no matter how cold or wrong
it might be, it that politics IS going to be discussed here on rec.boats. It
has
been for years and it will continue to be. It's an unmoderated group which
means
there really isn't much anyone can do about it.

Another very important thing to recognize about rec.boats is that if you do
post a boating item you will probably get good response. That's especially
true if what you post is a question. If you post a trip-report or general
topic
of conversation you might get some interest. But people here seem to love
answering questions - and that's a good thing.

Lastly, while your message was kindly worded and you, unlike many who
complain about the politics, you had the guts to use a real-name and
real-email address.
That's great. But other than posting one advertisement for your services, it
seems
(Google) you've posted no other boating posts. So, instead of "walking into
a
room and start complaining" why not post about boats? If you have a 50-Ton
master
license you surely could help some of the boaters here that have questions.
You
surely have some interesting stories to tell. No?


Gary Warner

It's an unmoderated group which
means
there really isn't much anyone can do about it.

And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site. Many people compare it unfavorably to sites
where a censor/moderator receives all the incoming messages, decides whether he
or she will allow them to appear at all, and then categorizes the item into a
particular classification. Some people are just happier in an environment that
is externally regulated and enjoy having a greater number of rules to follow. I
suspect that some of the complaints come from people who disapprove of some of
the particular politcal viewpoints expressed, moreso than the complaint that
any views are expressed in the first place.

Take Iboats.com as an example. Their home page this morning reveals that the
folks over there are not that different, interest wise, from the folks at
rec.boats.

The most frequently visited category to date is "Johnson & Evinrude Outboard
Troubles/Repair", with 131,662 posts.

The second most frequently visited catefory is "Dockside Chat", where all the
*non-boating related* political opinions, etc, wind up. 89,097 posts. The major
difference between rec.boats and Iboats isn't that one has OT political posts
and one doesn't, it's that a moderator puts all the OT posts into a single
place to make it easier to avoid running into them. The moderator also insists
that posters in the "Dockside Chat" behave respectfully toward one another (I
assume that would rule out name calling and personal attacks).

With OT stuff clearly in 2nd place over at Iboats, some other subjects also
attract participation- but it is useful to compare these numbers to the just
under 90,000 OT posts at that site:

Mercury outboard repair: 65,175

Boat Topics not engine related: 61,226

Mercruiser, Volvo, and OMC I/O problems: 53,612

Outboard non-repair discusssions: 52,075

From there, the majority of the categories drop off to numbers below 15,000.

Yes, there are political message boards. There are also censored and moderated
newsgroups.

Is boatered still around? There was a good example of a group that was ruined
by a moderator, IMO. The moderator had a vested commercial interest in a towing
service and was running an on-line chandlery. Posts critical of his products or
services never saw the light of day. He'd
quash all the political posts, except for those he happened to agree with, (and
he was a blatant right winger). I once responded to a particulary vicious
attack against "treasonous liberals all out to destroy my country, my family,
and my religion", or some such extreme crap,,,,and the result was that my post
never made the site and my posting privileges were permanently revoked.

It's my opinon that self-censorship is unlikely to work on an open forum like
rec.boats. Those who prefer a highly censored/moderated site have several to
choose from, and most likely they would be happier there where they can click
on the single boating topic that interests them at any particular moment than
click past
all the OT posts to find a thread that's boating related and with only a
minimal amount of name calling and insult attached.

On 26 Oct 2004 16:07:23 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

It's an unmoderated group which
means
there really isn't much anyone can do about it.

And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site.

That is an interesting argument.

Is this really a First Amendment issue?

While primarily populated by Americans, this is an unmoderated global
environment - it does not belong exclusively to Americans. Stick to
the unmoderated aspect.

I've often wondered why more posters don't recognize that fact. Or
what would happen if the Brits, Aussies or Albanians invaded and
posted a ton of OT stuff to rec.boats. What would the reaction be
then? :)

TTFN,

Tom

"Bodies are for hookers and fat people."
Bender - "Futurama"

Gould 0738 wrote:


And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site. Many people compare it unfavorably to sites
where a censor/moderator receives all the incoming messages, decides whether he
or she will allow them to appear at all, and then categorizes the item into a
particular classification.


It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The Internet is
international.

It *does* have to do with the increasing popularity and use of
newsgroups and the decline of voluntary adherence to the original
concept of their purpose/use.

I am as guilty as the rest, although I do try to throw in a boating
related topic here and there. Sometimes it is just too difficult to
keep my mouth shut .... or, more precisely, fingers off the keyboard.

Personally, I don't mind off-topic posts, particularly if they are
interesting, informative or, above all, humorous. (Kinda miss Skipper).
The political posts have become too much, most are nothing but a re-hash
of previously posted opinions or positions. Fortunately, the election
will soon be behind us and we can look forward to vote count fraud
accusations. At least it will be new material.

Eisboch

At least I come up with new posts, not like the idiots on the right.


"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Gould 0738 wrote:


And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content
fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site. Many people compare it unfavorably to
sites
where a censor/moderator receives all the incoming messages, decides
whether he
or she will allow them to appear at all, and then categorizes the item
into a
particular classification.


It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The Internet is
international.

It *does* have to do with the increasing popularity and use of newsgroups
and the decline of voluntary adherence to the original concept of their
purpose/use.

I am as guilty as the rest, although I do try to throw in a boating
related topic here and there. Sometimes it is just too difficult to keep
my mouth shut .... or, more precisely, fingers off the keyboard.

Personally, I don't mind off-topic posts, particularly if they are
interesting, informative or, above all, humorous. (Kinda miss Skipper).
The political posts have become too much, most are nothing but a re-hash
of previously posted opinions or positions. Fortunately, the election
will soon be behind us and we can look forward to vote count fraud
accusations. At least it will be new material.

Eisboch

Nice try, but Harry doesn't top post and he just doesn't write like that...

Harry Krause wrote:
At least I come up with new posts, not like the idiots on the right.


"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Gould 0738 wrote:


And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content
fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site. Many people compare it unfavorably to
sites
where a censor/moderator receives all the incoming messages, decides
whether he
or she will allow them to appear at all, and then categorizes the item
into a
particular classification.


It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The Internet is
international.

It *does* have to do with the increasing popularity and use of newsgroups
and the decline of voluntary adherence to the original concept of their
purpose/use.

I am as guilty as the rest, although I do try to throw in a boating
related topic here and there. Sometimes it is just too difficult to keep
my mouth shut .... or, more precisely, fingers off the keyboard.

Personally, I don't mind off-topic posts, particularly if they are
interesting, informative or, above all, humorous. (Kinda miss Skipper).
The political posts have become too much, most are nothing but a re-hash
of previously posted opinions or positions. Fortunately, the election
will soon be behind us and we can look forward to vote count fraud
accusations. At least it will be new material.

Eisboch

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:58:59 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:

Gould 0738 wrote:


And that's exactly the point that many of those squaking about content fail to
understand, or at least fail to appreciate.

This is a First Amendment site. Many people compare it unfavorably to sites
where a censor/moderator receives all the incoming messages, decides whether he
or she will allow them to appear at all, and then categorizes the item into a
particular classification.


It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The Internet is
international.

It *does* have to do with the increasing popularity and use of
newsgroups and the decline of voluntary adherence to the original
concept of their purpose/use.

I am as guilty as the rest, although I do try to throw in a boating
related topic here and there. Sometimes it is just too difficult to
keep my mouth shut .... or, more precisely, fingers off the keyboard.

Personally, I don't mind off-topic posts, particularly if they are
interesting, informative or, above all, humorous. (Kinda miss Skipper).
The political posts have become too much, most are nothing but a re-hash
of previously posted opinions or positions. Fortunately, the election
will soon be behind us and we can look forward to vote count fraud
accusations. At least it will be new material.

And it's already started. :)

12,000 Democrat lawyers in Florida.

I would imagine that there will be at least as many Republican lawyers
to counter.

Imagine the fun.

I still say, the only solution to all this is to shoot all the
lawyers.

Every, single, last, final one of them.

Shakespeare was right. :)

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Tuesday 26 October 2004 5:07 pm in rec.boats Gould 0738 wrote:

This is a First Amendment site.

BALDERDASH.

I am not even american and even I know that the first ammendment
refers to your government restricting speech.

Get real - this has nothing to do with your government.
You get no protection here - Either post on topic or go away.
There are other newsgroups where american politics are on
topic and welcome.
This is an international boating newsgroup and your political
views are NOT WELCOME.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.