Been there, done that. The "umbrella carrier" always requires you to
carry some minimum amount of liability on your house, cars, boats,
etc. before they will issue the policy. Typically the minimums are in
the range of 100 to 300K$.

I have an umbrella liability policy that covers risks for which there is *no*
underlying liability insurance available. I have had the same policy for over
20 years, (although the limits and premiums keep increasing), so things may be
different in the current market.

Suppose, for example, that I owned income producing real estate. At least in
my state, many insurance companies will not write fire insurance on older
rental dwellings. One that will write fire policies on 20-50 YO rentals does
not offer inidividal liability insurance for houses or small multiplexes, but
does offer an umbrella policy that covers not only property on which they write
fire insurance but any other asset or activity as well.

If I owned income producing real property in my state, had a policy like I just
described, and had a 26-foot sailboat that was otherwise not insured my
liability would be covered while sailing.

Every situation is different, and the guy contemplating buying the "super
cheap" sailboat should be sure he explores all the options.

On 19 Oct 2004 15:48:58 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Suppose, for example, that I owned income producing real estate. At least in
my state, many insurance companies will not write fire insurance on older
rental dwellings. One that will write fire policies on 20-50 YO rentals does
not offer inidividal liability insurance for houses or small multiplexes, but
does offer an umbrella policy that covers not only property on which they write
fire insurance but any other asset or activity as well.

How to the owners obtain protection?

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

How to the owners obtain protection?


Buy an umbrella policy from the same company that writes fire, or go naked.

On 19 Oct 2004 16:04:42 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

How to the owners obtain protection?


Buy an umbrella policy from the same company that writes fire, or go naked.

Interesting.

I actually ran into something like this with a rental unit that my
daughter bought (read me). It was built in 1920 and the insurance
company that I used for our other two houses was reluctant to insure
it for fire or anything else for that matter.

I spent some money to rehab the house and all was well after that.

Does that work the same way in your state?

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

Interesting.

I actually ran into something like this with a rental unit that my
daughter bought (read me). It was built in 1920 and the insurance
company that I used for our other two houses was reluctant to insure
it for fire or anything else for that matter.

I spent some money to rehab the house and all was well after that.

Does that work the same way in your state?

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653


Once a year the insurance company gives an adjustor a list of addresses insured
by individual policy holders. The adjustor does a "drive-by" and takes a few
polaroid shots or each property. He of course feels compelled to come up with
something, somewhere, to justify his gig. Once a year the insurance company
then sends out notices declaring that unless the "peeling paint on the south
wall is repaired", the "leaky downspout near the back bedroom is replaced" or
"the tenant removes the camping trailer parked in the side yard" coverage will
terminate in 90 days.

I've never been certain how paint peeling on the sunny side of the house
creates an additional fire hazard, but the ins.co. has policy holders by the
short hairs as there is very little competition. One winds up doing the repairs
to keep the coverage, but the repairs would need to be done in any event. If I
had any income property, the relationship with the insurance company would go
back to the mid-70's. There might even be rumors that I enjoyed some
"grandfathered" considerations not available to newcomers.

On 19 Oct 2004 16:49:18 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

There might even be rumors that I enjoyed some
"grandfathered" considerations not available to newcomers.

I hear you. :)

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On 19 Oct 2004 16:49:18 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

the ins.co. has policy holders by the
short hairs as there is very little competition.

==========================

Try getting insurance on boats or houses in Florida these days. Last
year was tough enough but you could still get insurance from companies
you'd never heard of. This year it's difficult to get it from anyone.
I've heard of boat deals falling through for lack of coverage.

In article ,
Gould 0738 wrote:
Been there, done that. The "umbrella carrier" always requires you to
carry some minimum amount of liability on your house, cars, boats,
etc. before they will issue the policy. Typically the minimums are in
the range of 100 to 300K$.

I have an umbrella liability policy that covers risks for which there is *no*
underlying liability insurance available. I have had the same policy for over
20 years, (although the limits and premiums keep increasing), so things may be
different in the current market.

Suppose, for example, that I owned income producing real estate. At least in
my state, many insurance companies will not write fire insurance on older
rental dwellings. One that will write fire policies on 20-50 YO rentals does
not offer inidividal liability insurance for houses or small multiplexes, but
does offer an umbrella policy that covers not only property on which they write
fire insurance but any other asset or activity as well.

If I owned income producing real property in my state, had a policy like I just
described, and had a 26-foot sailboat that was otherwise not insured my
liability would be covered while sailing.

Every situation is different, and the guy contemplating buying the "super
cheap" sailboat should be sure he explores all the options.

Careful with that Chuck.

"No underlying insurance AVAILABLE" doesn't mean "not available at a price
you want to pay."

In most cases liability coverage IS available on major risks (like
watercraft) You may have to pay for OTHER coverages to get what you want,
but that doesn't make the underlying "unavailable" - just "undesireable."

Look very, very carefully at these issues and enlist the help of a good
attorney skilled in estate-protection matters. The cost of being wrong on
one of these things if something really bad happens is usually damn near
everything you have (with some exceptions in places like Florida where
homestead residences are judgement-proof.)

--
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