30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can still be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.


"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in my 1989
5.7.

Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain applications. If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can still be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in my 1989
5.7.

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil" is that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it sure looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured by some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic oil are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent than that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top of them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the board, you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these few balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all the same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides evenly across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what synthetic oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new eingine.

Frank


"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in my
1989
5.7.

I think you are getting your balls in a bunch. You are confusing extreme
pressure properties of certain types of lubricants with the ability of both
synthetic and conventional oils to operate satisfactorily in the typical
boundary layer lubrication environment of an internal combustion engine. You
need to read up on tribology and the mechanics of an oil film in plain bearing
applications as well as sliding motion applications. The most detrimental
aspect of lubrication in an internal combustion engine is contamination from the
combustion process. Unlike a gear box application, the oil in an engine is
subject to the byproducts of the combustion process as well as unburnt fuel.
For this reason, changing the oil and filter on a regular basis is much more
important than the type of oil used.



"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil" is that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it sure looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured by some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic oil are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent than that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top of them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the board, you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these few balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all the same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides evenly across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what synthetic oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new eingine.

Frank

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in my
1989
5.7.

Jim,

You sound like you are well versed in the matters of internal combustion
engine lubrication. You are correct that oil contamination is a major
factor in oil breakdown and that is why oil should be changed regularly.
Although many synthetic oil users believe in extended periods between oil
changes, that is one thing that I do not buy into mainly because of the
issues that you mentioned. In addition to contamination, heat and
mechanical forces are also causes of oil breakdown.

The fact is, that no matter whant kind of oil you use, as soon as you put it
in and start the engine, the breakdown process starts and conventional oil
will break down faster than synthetic. Even after only 1,000 miles,
conventional oils will have lost much more of their protective properties
than synthetic oils.

I suspect that you are also aware of the fact that for the typical
automotive engine, a large amount of wear occurs during engine startup when
all of the oil is still in the pan. Because of the molecular properties of
synthetic oil, it adheres to engine components much better than conventional
oil thus providing more protection at startup.

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
I think you are getting your balls in a bunch. You are confusing extreme
pressure properties of certain types of lubricants with the ability of
both
synthetic and conventional oils to operate satisfactorily in the typical
boundary layer lubrication environment of an internal combustion engine.
You
need to read up on tribology and the mechanics of an oil film in plain
bearing
applications as well as sliding motion applications. The most detrimental
aspect of lubrication in an internal combustion engine is contamination
from the
combustion process. Unlike a gear box application, the oil in an engine
is
subject to the byproducts of the combustion process as well as unburnt
fuel.
For this reason, changing the oil and filter on a regular basis is much
more
important than the type of oil used.



"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil" is
that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it sure
looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured by
some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic oil
are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent than
that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top of
them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the board,
you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these few
balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how
conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all the
same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides evenly
across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are
supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what synthetic
oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new
eingine.

Frank

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements
like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain
applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a
more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can
still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes
a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all
the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use
regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in
outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in
my
1989
5.7.

Frank,
Yes, I am aware of the wear that takes place during start up. However, I know
of no evidence that synthetic oil possesses adhesive properties that reduce wear
during this time. For years, additive manufacturers have been displaying
plastic gear arrangements in a clear box. The hand crank is turned and the oil
with their additive ribbons around the gears while the oil without drips off.
Although impressive, it does not indicate what is happening at the gear mesh.
In both cases, there is full film lubrication at the mesh and the additive
provides no additional benefit. As I mentioned in my response to Gene, Crusader
Marine came to the conclusion that there was no benefit to using synthetics in
their engines under normal operating conditions. Obviously, if they felt that
there was any chance that warranty claims might be reduced with the use of
synthetics, they would certainly recommend, if not require, their use.

On the other hand, there are industrial applications where synthetic oils and
greases have proven to be far superior to their conventional counterparts.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Jim,

You sound like you are well versed in the matters of internal combustion
engine lubrication. You are correct that oil contamination is a major
factor in oil breakdown and that is why oil should be changed regularly.
Although many synthetic oil users believe in extended periods between oil
changes, that is one thing that I do not buy into mainly because of the
issues that you mentioned. In addition to contamination, heat and
mechanical forces are also causes of oil breakdown.

The fact is, that no matter whant kind of oil you use, as soon as you put it
in and start the engine, the breakdown process starts and conventional oil
will break down faster than synthetic. Even after only 1,000 miles,
conventional oils will have lost much more of their protective properties
than synthetic oils.

I suspect that you are also aware of the fact that for the typical
automotive engine, a large amount of wear occurs during engine startup when
all of the oil is still in the pan. Because of the molecular properties of
synthetic oil, it adheres to engine components much better than conventional
oil thus providing more protection at startup.

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
I think you are getting your balls in a bunch. You are confusing extreme
pressure properties of certain types of lubricants with the ability of
both
synthetic and conventional oils to operate satisfactorily in the typical
boundary layer lubrication environment of an internal combustion engine.
You
need to read up on tribology and the mechanics of an oil film in plain
bearing
applications as well as sliding motion applications. The most detrimental
aspect of lubrication in an internal combustion engine is contamination
from the
combustion process. Unlike a gear box application, the oil in an engine
is
subject to the byproducts of the combustion process as well as unburnt
fuel.
For this reason, changing the oil and filter on a regular basis is much
more
important than the type of oil used.



"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil" is
that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it sure
looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured by
some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic oil
are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent than
that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top of
them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the board,
you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these few
balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how
conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all the
same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides evenly
across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are
supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what synthetic
oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new
eingine.

Frank

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements
like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain
applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a
more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can
still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes
a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all
the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use
regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in
outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in
my
1989
5.7.

My Mercruiser owners manual specifically does not recommend synthetic oil.
"The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver
25W-40), synthetic oils, low quality oils, or oils that contain solid
additives are specifically not recommended."


"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
I think you are getting your balls in a bunch. You are confusing extreme
pressure properties of certain types of lubricants with the ability of
both
synthetic and conventional oils to operate satisfactorily in the typical
boundary layer lubrication environment of an internal combustion engine.
You
need to read up on tribology and the mechanics of an oil film in plain
bearing
applications as well as sliding motion applications. The most detrimental
aspect of lubrication in an internal combustion engine is contamination
from the
combustion process. Unlike a gear box application, the oil in an engine
is
subject to the byproducts of the combustion process as well as unburnt
fuel.
For this reason, changing the oil and filter on a regular basis is much
more
important than the type of oil used.



"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

Well, I'm not sure what that quart of "Volvo Duraplus Synthetic Oil" is
that
is sitting right in front of me as I write this message is but it sure
looks
like synthetic oil to me. I suppose that it could be manufactured by
some
other company and Volvo just puts their name on it.

You are correct, that the temperature characteristics of synthetic oil
are a
big advantage of synthetics but it goes much further than that. The
molecular structure of synthetic oil is also much more consistent than
that
of conventional oil. Consider this analogy:

Lets say you have a bunch of steel balls of all different sizes and you
thrown them down on a concrete floor and then throw a board on top of
them
and step on it. As you surf across the steel balls on top of the board,
you
are really only ridinng on the large balls. The surfaces on these few
balls
will soon wear down and the ride becomes rough. This is how
conventional
oils works.

Now you do the same thing with another bunch of balls that are all the
same
exact size. Since they are all the same size, the board rides evenly
across
all of the balls at the same time. Since all of the balls are
supporting
the board, they do not wear down nearly as quickly and the ride starts
smoother and stays smoother for much loinger. That is what synthetic
oil
does.

Yes, synthetic oil is more expensive but it's cheaper than a new
eingine.

Frank

"Jim Kelly" wrote in message
...
Volvo does not make any oil, synthetic or conventional. Statements
like
"synthetic is definitely much better" are meaningless. Synthetic
lubricants
have properties which make them a better choice for certain
applications.
If
the application does not take advantage of these properties, there is
nothing
to be gained by using them. One of their greatest attributes is a
more
linear temperature vs. viscosity curve. There is a misconception that
synthetics are simply higher quality. This is not the case.

"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote:

30 wt refers to the viscosity charactersitics of the oil. It can
still
be
either conventional or synthetic. As a matter of fact, Volvo makes
a
straight 30 wt synthetic oil for its marine engines.

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2003 17:09:51 -0800, (Bear) wrote:

(Bear) revised earlier message
.com...

'97 Chapparal w/ a Volvo-Penta 5.7L Carb w/ SX Outdrive

Questions:

1) Volvo pushes synthetics for crankcase and outdrive, yet all
the
boat places around me (Austin - San Antonio) said to use
regular
20w-50 motor oil in crankcase and non-suynthetic in
outdrive...
Of course they said to change every 100 hours or per season.
Experience / Opinions?

2) Any thoughts / experience on spark plugs for this motor???

Thanks!

Hmmm, the people I talk to in Ohio say to use straight 30 wt in
my
1989
5.7.