In article ,
Harry Krause wrote:


Karl Denninger wrote:
Yet another personal attack.

Harry, the issue on the table is foreign policy, and specifically Iran.

If you don't want to - or CAN'T - debate the points I've made, then admit it
and cede the point of debate. If you are able, then enter the debate with
your own point of view, minus the irrelavancies and personal attacks.

Once you've done either, THEN if you'd like to entertain a new point of
debate I'll be happy to engage you with it.

Ok, Karl. I feel we are better off talking directly with Iran and North
Korea and Cuba and working through all diplomatic channels for however
long it takes to see if we can find ways to get along and move along.
Simple enough for you? Talk, talk, talk, inspect, inspect, inspect, work
out compromises, work out compromises, establish links, establish
linkes, set up trade deals, set up trade deals, set up cultural
exchanges, set up cultural exchanges, tone down the rhetoric, tone donw
the rhetoric, help North Korea feed its people, help Cuba rebuild its
economy, et cetera and so forth.

All better than the United States once again starting a war.

Again, Harry, the issue is NOT whether we should talk with people.

The issue is, to rephrase it once more time:

*******

Iran is processing nuclear fuel and has stated their intention to
use the atom only for "peaceful" purposes. International consensus
is that this is not their intention, because:

1. They don't need the atom to produce electricity - they have
a lot of petroleum, and using atomic power is EXPENSIVE.
When your oil is basically "free" it makes no economic sense
to use atomic power for this purpose.

2. You do NOT need the ability to process highly enriched
uranium for atomic power. You can buy fuel directly from
several sources, including the United States. It is a LOT
cheaper to buy the fuel than to make it, provided your
intent is to only use it for power.

3. There is no need to hide anything if you are doing it all
for peaceful purposes. Iran is indeed doing that.

So.

We, and the rest of the international community, believe that they
are persuing nuclear energy to make weapons.

Talking is great. However, talking does not appear to have any
impact on their developing technology. At some point, they will
reach a stage where they will have enough processed fuel for a
nuclear weapon - and that time will come sooner rather than later -
perhaps in a year or two at most.

Once you have the enriched uranium, making the bomb itself is trivial.

So now here's the question:

Given these facts, do we have a foreign policy with regards
to Iran that says that we WILL NOT permit Iran to develop
nuclear weapons, and that we will do whatever is necessary -
including armed conflict if we must - to stop them.
Further, insuring sufficient transparency so that there is
NO QUESTION that they are not doing this is THEIR PROBLEM -
not ours.

OR

Do we have a foreign policy that says that we will talk with
them, offer them fuel, put in place a "monitoring program"
and AFTER THE FACT if they cheat we will consult with the
Security Council - the same Security Council who failed to
do ANYTHING about North Korea cheating and developing
nuclear weapons.

John Kerry supports the second path.

George Bush supports the first path.

I believe that the second path will lead to Israel or our nation being
nuked within the next 10 years, as history says that (1) the UNSC is unable,
or unwilling, to enforce its demands, and (2) Iran WILL cheat on any
negotiated deal and produce the weapons.

Show me please just ONE United Nations Security Council actual interdiction
action in the last 30 years that did not involve the direct invasion of
another's territory (e.g. Gulf War I.)

You can't.

You can, however, list numerous cases of development of banned weapons by
various countries which have drawn "rebukes" from the UNSC, but no effective
cessation of the activity nor any willingness to back up the condemnation
with an international armed response.

The simple truth is that if we are stop the proliferation we must do it
ourselves, with our own money and armed forces. The United Nations will not
help - they never have historicaly done so and there is no reason to belive
they will this time either.

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Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
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