On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:08:01 -0400, DSK wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
The problem is just like which side of the aisle you sit in church -
the good side or the other good side.

Global warming science is shaky at best. Recent studies in Antartica
indicate that the ozone hole that everybody was shaky about ten or so
years ago may also have a natural cycle. We just haven't been here
long enough, not is there enough human historical data, to make that
kind of decision.

So, let's go ahead and keep messing up the planet full speed, is that
your answer?

Did I say that? Here, let me answer for you.

No, I did not. Just because I'm a nice guy at heart, I'll help you
parse what I said.

What I said was that evidence of Global Warming, as a long term
environmental event, may or may not exist - the science is not proven,
the data sets are not established - in short, what constitutes Global
Warming is not established. If you can't establish the basic
parameters of what constitutes Global Warming, or even reach a
consensus on what constitutes Global Warming, then you can't really
say it exists.

The simple fact is this - historical observations made over the past
500 years or so have produced an interesting, and odd, result. If the
normal sun cycle, which occurs over an eleven/onehundred ten year
cycle, happens to coincide with the mid-latitude current movement
cycle and in particular the South Equatorial Indian Current, the
Mid-Atlantic storm cycle accelerates. A lot of historical research
into this facet of atmorpheric research has pretty much proven that
when this sequence of events occurs, you get big storms. Usually,
that cycle is balanced by El Niño and La Niña.

Secondly, the ozone layer hole over Antartica, based on geophysical
evidence (snow cores) may also have a natural cycle. Note the may.
There isn't enough evidence to make a sure bet one way or the other
although hard evidence would seem to point to the natural cycle.

It does not mean that some sort of pollution isn't happening - it is
happening. But that's different than Global Warming.

The whole Global Warming thing is somebodies pet theory and that's
about it.

Actually, it's a LOT of people's "pet theory."

I'm sure it is, but that doesn't make it true. It's a theory, not a
set of facts.

No certain explanation yet, but... Do you have kids?

As a matter of fact, I do. One of which is a geoscientist - a
physicist actually. He knows a lot about this subject. Studies ocean
currents and their effects on the atmosphere. Also knows a lot about
the solar cycle - did his dissertation on them in fact.

Want your great grandkids to live in
artifical bubbles under the poles? Want to take the chance that it's
totally a natural phenomenon & we are not affecting it? The risk is no
less than the future of the human race.

Well, you see, here is where we part company. Yeah, I pretty much am
on the side of science on this one and the science says says it's
bull****. I'm willing to take the chance that Global Warming is just
junk science. Even if, by the remotest chance, it's true, then it's
already started and reversing the effect will be totally out of our
hands. I don't think you have any idea of just how large a mass we're
talking about here - it's pretty startling.

The fact is that pollution cannot be equated with Global Warming. I
am pro environment. I do believe in limiting the damage to the Earth
by random acts of pollution. I want clean water, clean air, clean
sheets to sleep on and not have to clean my windows three times per
year. I want unwarranted destruction of the rain forests stopped. I
want timber stands to stay timber stands with good management, not
clear cutting. I don't have a problem with Artic piplines or
drilling, but I want it done responsibly. I want wind power and solar
power and reactors that aren't dirty. I want diesel/electric engines
instead of gas engines. I want to walk the streets of Calcutta and
not have to wear a gas mask to cut the pollution, human and
industrial, and be able to breathe. I want idiot developers to stop
coming up my driveway and trying to buy my property for ridiculous
amounts of money. I don't want to have to continue to pick up trash
out of the oceans and bays and fresh water lakes that I travel over.

So we want the same thing - I just don't believe in Global Warming.
It's fuzzy logic at it's finest. Touchy, feely worthless nonsense.

Personally, I don't like gambling with that stake, and I think it's
stupid to advocate doing so... especially for the sake of convenience &
temporary political advantage.

You may think it's stupid, but the fact is that it's still voodoo
science and will stay that way until somebody comes up with evidence
that ALL scientists can agree on - real evidence - hard science. The
kind of evidence that you can lay the mathematical lumber to if you
will and come up with an answer.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717