Anywhere you like at Crystal it has gone and is not a problem anymore.
I rowed my raft through the middle last Oct just for the hell of it


In message , Charles Pezeshki
writes
in article , riverman at wrote
on 10/26/04 3:35 AM:

If you have some free time in Flagstaff, contact Garrett Schniewind at
Canyon Explorations. He's OCed it many times, and can give you lots of
input. In general, though, stay left.

Left at Crystal (Slate Creek run)
Left at Lava
Left at Hermit, Hance and Grapevine
Left at Badger, Soap Creek
Left at Dubendorff....

Weird how that happens, eh?

--riverman

Hi Myron,

Don't think that left at Crystal advice is very good. Crystal is a very
easy boulder garden down the right.

Best,

Chuck
http://www.wildcountry.info


--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

FWIW, we just did an OC run, taking out at the end of Sept. When we
were scouting Lava a commercial trip came through and one of the
guides took the time to walk up stream to ask us not to let anyone in
our group run the left side of Lava. He said hundreds of people swim
the right side every year and don't get hurt. We all ran the right
side and no one had any problems. The right side looks (way!) worse
than it is.

Dave Manby wrote in message ...
Anywhere you like at Crystal it has gone and is not a problem anymore.
I rowed my raft through the middle last Oct just for the hell of it


In message , Charles Pezeshki
writes
in article , riverman at wrote
on 10/26/04 3:35 AM:

If you have some free time in Flagstaff, contact Garrett Schniewind at
Canyon Explorations. He's OCed it many times, and can give you lots of
input. In general, though, stay left.

Left at Crystal (Slate Creek run)
Left at Lava
Left at Hermit, Hance and Grapevine
Left at Badger, Soap Creek
Left at Dubendorff....

Weird how that happens, eh?

--riverman

Hi Myron,

Don't think that left at Crystal advice is very good. Crystal is a very
easy boulder garden down the right.

Best,

Chuck
http://www.wildcountry.info

Open boat? canoe? dory? Raft? Jim Schelander first open canoed the Grand
in 1979 or so. I don't have the beginning of this thread. You want to know
if he went left ot right at crystal or what? The best thing is to look at a
rapid when you get there and based on the flow dicide rather than used
someone else's plan. One of the new guide books gives a rapid by rapid
description, but fails to consider flows very much. I canoed it in 1990, but
wouldn't want to give advice based on flows and rapids 14 years ago. Lava
has changed quite a bit in the past 10 years. Or how about the flows when I
paddled C-1 in 1980 at 55,000?

"Michael Hearn Anna Houpt" wrote in message
...
Open boat? canoe? dory? Raft? Jim Schelander first open canoed the
Grand
in 1979 or so. I don't have the beginning of this thread. You want to know
if he went left ot right at crystal or what? The best thing is to look at
a
rapid when you get there and based on the flow dicide rather than used
someone else's plan.

Spot on. The funny thing about useless posts like that one I made is that
some people believe I'm serious. Gimmeabreak! I mean, if someone got beyond
Soap Creek and was actually relying on generic advice like "stay left" for
an entire 225 mile stretch of river.......wow!

Normally I'm too cautious to toss out obvious trolls like that, for fear of
someone (amazingly) taking it seriously, but this is the Canyon, and I'm
comfortably sure that real life will take over pretty quickly. It was on par
with telling someone that, once they finish med school, the best advice will
always be "take an aspirin and call me in the morning". Yuh.

To the OP: enjoy the canyon, and while you are staring at the waves in
Granite or the chute in Horn Creek wondering where the heck the line is for
an OC, if the thought "Hey, riverman said to 'stay left on everything'" pops
into your head, tell us about it!

:-)
Grinningly yours....

--riverman

Sounds good. I tend to paddle with a lot of kayakers and in smaller water
that is not too much of a big deal. I am sure though that on the Colorado,
the drier route would be preferred! That seems to be the rest of the groups
concern too. I do tend to try to make my own choices, but also like to have
the most data going in. I paddled Hells's Canyon several years ago. My route
on both Wild Sheep and Granite was an eddy hop down the left bank. Worked
one out of two. Swam the second after sliding sideways into a huge hole and
getting munched. Roll failed. But it was still a good time over all.

I can not believe how much the flows vary on the Grand Canyon run. There
seems to be huge varyances.

I also believe that many of the routes I tank may be along the banks!

Thanks again. I have a couple of guides coming and look forward to reading
those also.

SYOTR.

Byron

To the OP: enjoy the canyon, and while you are staring at the waves in
Granite or the chute in Horn Creek wondering where the heck the line is
for
an OC, if the thought "Hey, riverman said to 'stay left on everything'"
pops
into your head, tell us about it!

:-)
Grinningly yours....

--riverman

"Byron Funnell" wrote in message
...
Sounds good. I tend to paddle with a lot of kayakers and in smaller water
that is not too much of a big deal. I am sure though that on the Colorado,
the drier route would be preferred! That seems to be the rest of the
groups
concern too. I do tend to try to make my own choices, but also like to
have
the most data going in. I paddled Hells's Canyon several years ago. My
route
on both Wild Sheep and Granite was an eddy hop down the left bank. Worked
one out of two. Swam the second after sliding sideways into a huge hole
and
getting munched. Roll failed. But it was still a good time over all.


You may discover that, in several runs, the safest and easiest run is down
the chute. When you get to Sockdolager, the waves in the middle look
monsterous (because they are), but the eddy line along the shore is rather
snakey and you will almost certainly dump if you try to skirt them by much.
Most folks just aim down the center, swallow their fear, and GO for it.
Turns out the be one of the biggest yahoos of the trip.

Another place to look seriously at the bigwater run is Hermit. The later
waves (the 5th one, according to legend) are stalling waves, and will flip
you in any craft if you hit them at the wrong time and without a good
downstream velocity. If you try to skirt the wavetrain at the top, you will
inevitably be drawn into the downstream V anyway and punch into the lower
waves with too little velocity. So the safest run there is actually to set
up and charge down the center like mad, not to try and skirt them.

Actually, its similar at House Rock....if you try to skirt it by getting off
the line at the top, you just get drawn into the meat of the hole instead.

Give each run a good, hard look, and don't be afraid of going down the big
water. Most rapids do have a skirt line, but you can get dumped on them and
washed through the shoreline rocks. Its often better to get flushed than
crushed; just have safety set up below. Do an old google search from about 7
years ago on rbp under 'riverman' about 'throwbags' and 'grand canyon' and
see the discussions about the pros and cons of ropes in big water like that.

--riverman